The WWE Future Endeavors Thread

[Mr. Nerfect]

None of those releases seem crazy at all. Dakota Kai could have maybe been a solid hand, but I didn’t find her particularly interesting. And who knows what circumstances were behind it?

Harland was probably the drizzling shits, plus he seemed to get heat.

Malcolm Bivens was lucky to have a job as a manager in modern WWE, really.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect Malcolm Bivens was lucky to have a job as a manager in modern WWE, really.

I was surprised he was even there ever, given how much Vince apparently hates the idea of managers anymore, Paul Heyman excepted... possibly begrudingly since he's attached to Brock personally. I'm honestly even surprised that MVP has been doing mouthpiece and corner work for folks for the last few years. And I don't mean that as a knock on MVP.

Remember, this is a company that actively discourages using managers and tag team wrestling as a division, and has about a two decade track record at this point that proves exactly how much by deeds instead of words. I'm willing to bet if young prime versions of Jim Cornette, Jimmy Hart, or even Bobby Heenan existed now in their capacity as manager, they would not likely find a home in WWE and end up as post 'Mania release fodder.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott I was surprised he was even there ever, given how much Vince apparently hates the idea of managers anymore, Paul Heyman excepted... possibly begrudingly since he's attached to Brock personally. I'm honestly even surprised that MVP has been doing mouthpiece and corner work for folks for the last few years. And I don't mean that as a knock on MVP. Remember, this is a company that actively discourages using managers and tag team wrestling as a division, and has about a two decade track record at this point that proves exactly how much by deeds instead of words. I'm willing to bet if young prime versions of Jim Cornette, Jimmy Hart, or even Bobby Heenan existed now in their capacity as manager, they would not likely find a home in WWE and end up as post 'Mania release fodder.

I don’t think Vince is against using managers and tag teams. I mean, WWE has better managers and a better tag division than their nearest rival, easily. But I’m not sure how hungry they would be to get new people into that role when they’ve got a whole bunch of talkers already up there. But I guess it was his choice to leave, so good for him.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect I don’t think Vince is against using managers and tag teams. I mean, WWE has better managers and a better tag division than their nearest rival, easily. But I’m not sure how hungry they would be to get new people into that role when they’ve got a whole bunch of talkers already up there. But I guess it was his choice to leave, so good for him.

Do they, though? Do they really?

Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda).

Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to War Machine The Viking Experience The Viking Raiders.

They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP.

I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks.

They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.

[erickman]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Do they, though? Do they really? Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda). Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to War Machine The Viking Experience The Viking Raiders. They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP. I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks. They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.

yep poor stone and la knight both managers

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell.

That was how they were using FTR. Accidentally putting Icy Hot on their balls. Just insane. Lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Do they, though? Do they really? Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda). Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to War Machine The Viking Experience The Viking Raiders. They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP. I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks. They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.

Heyman and MVP are where you could stop. I didn’t say the most managers, I said the best managers. No one touches them.

The Usos have been on the main roster for 12 years now. The New Day have been together for 8. The Street Profits for 6. The longevity argument is an outdated one. Splitting up teams wouldn’t negate the argument that WWE have a good division anyway.

Right now they’ve got aforementioned teams, RKBro, Alpha fucking Academy, The Mysterios, Ziggler & Roode, and the ability to put a bunch of other guys into the mix that currently aren’t cycled in (Edge & Priest, Gunther & Kaiser, Styles & Balor). It’s just an antiquated argument that they don’t have the teams available to produce top quality tag team stuff. It’s been the highlight on Raw.

This is probably the strongest the division has ever been since The Hardys, E&C, The Dudleys, APA, Too Cool, Radicalz days. And I can’t think of another time where it was more important in the context of the show. RKBro and The Usos are just about to headline a PPV.

I’ve also read that RKBro are MASSIVE merch movers for them. Hence why they don’t break them up. But the team has gotten over and worked. To say they aren’t one of the most important acts there right now is just absurd.

Now compare that to AEW. Do Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus compare as champs to either WWE team? No. Are any of the teams true main event acts? No. They’ve got FTR, who are outstanding, but booked so terribly by the company. They’ve got alien belts no one cares about and have had to build up a reputation outside the show to get over enough to stand out.

WWE had them in the first place, lol. WWE wants them now? They hired them anyway. FTR quit. Their greatness was well known before any AEW run.

The anti-WWE lens skewers everything, and it tends to fall back on antiquated arguments and internet tropes that don’t hold true under examination.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect WWE had them in the first place, lol. WWE wants them now? They hired them anyway. FTR quit. Their greatness was well known before any AEW run. The anti-WWE lens skewers everything, and it tends to fall back on antiquated arguments and internet tropes that don’t hold true under examination.

When you take off the anti-WWE lens this is a gif of them tearing the house down.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect Heyman and MVP are where you could stop. I didn’t say the most managers, I said the best managers. No one touches them. The Usos have been on the main roster for 12 years now. The New Day have been together for 8. The Street Profits for 6. The longevity argument is an outdated one. Splitting up teams wouldn’t negate the argument that WWE have a good division anyway. Right now they’ve got aforementioned teams, RKBro, Alpha fucking Academy, The Mysterios, Ziggler & Roode, and the ability to put a bunch of other guys into the mix that currently aren’t cycled in (Edge & Priest, Gunther & Kaiser, Styles & Balor). It’s just an antiquated argument that they don’t have the teams available to produce top quality tag team stuff. It’s been the highlight on Raw. This is probably the strongest the division has ever been since The Hardys, E&C, The Dudleys, APA, Too Cool, Radicalz days. And I can’t think of another time where it was more important in the context of the show. RKBro and The Usos are just about to headline a PPV. I’ve also read that RKBro are MASSIVE merch movers for them. Hence why they don’t break them up. But the team has gotten over and worked. To say they aren’t one of the most important acts there right now is just absurd. Now compare that to AEW. Do Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus compare as champs to either WWE team? No. Are any of the teams true main event acts? No. They’ve got FTR, who are outstanding, but booked so terribly by the company. They’ve got alien belts no one cares about and have had to build up a reputation outside the show to get over enough to stand out. WWE had them in the first place, lol. WWE wants them now? They hired them anyway. FTR quit. Their greatness was well known before any AEW run. The anti-WWE lens skewers everything, and it tends to fall back on antiquated arguments and internet tropes that don’t hold true under examination.

They hold very true. You have apparently confused me with an AEW fanboy. I've been bitching about this type of stuff in WWE for ages. I myself never made the argument about AEW having a better tag division. Their shit sucks in a completely different way, starting with the notion that :Schiavone voice: "The Young Bucks are the greatest tag team in the history of our sport"... but it wasn't the topic. So please stop with the false equivalancy shit. This has nothing to do with the very clear and utter bullshit in AEW right now. AEW's nonsense is a different subject entirely. Cut that out.

Yes, the Usos have been together for MOST of their time in WWE (and initially were with Tamina), except when they weren't on those couple of times they had solo runs. New Day being together for 8 years has nothing to do with other teams being either randomly paired and/or broken up... and even there, they have been severed by the brand split more than once (but you prob'ly only remember the times they were considered "one person" and were drafted together). And on that, they were all almost fired because that forced positivity babyface BS they were on initially wasn't working, and as per usual, it was somehow "their fault" instead of just not being something fans wanted to see. They had to beg Vince to turn heel, which started them down the road to being together as a group for so long as talent the folks gave a shit about. On the other side of that fence, you had a team like The Major Brothers, who Vince decided after about two weeks that "nobody would buy them as brothers" even though nobody knew who the hell Brian Myers and Matt Cardona were on top of them having the same haircut and twinsy ring gear (and all that before they became Edge's stunt doubles for awhile). Meanwhile, that same company still to this day run with the kayfabe fantasy about Undertaker and Kane even though EVERYBODY knows better anymore.

I also wasn't making a blanket statement that EVERY SINGLE TEAM gets split, though it has historically happened a lot. The divison as a whole always gets minimized. They get flashes of resurgance, just like I said before, but it never lasts. And again, I'm only counting main roster men's belts. The NXT titles don't mean much, because it isn't even close to guaranteed that the teams holding them will survive as teams to the main roster. For every Street Profits still there and allowed to be themselves, you have your AoPs, or Blake & Murphys, or Enzo & Cass's-es. And the women's tag teams are just the "everyone gets a turn 2.0 belts". There is no real division, and very few actual women's teams to begin with... just mostly a series of loose alliances that makes little sense to have a division around.

Yes, RKBro is popular now, and a merch mover, but you know damn well they're nothing but another "odd couple" gimmick destined to be broken up. Most likely from Orton turning on Riddle - even though they may surprise everyone (doubt it) by having it go the other way. Alpha Academy is either the 4th or 5th tag partner for Chad Gable (I legit don't remember how many anymore), and second partner for Otis. They are literally both remnants of other teams that had been broken up.

For as poorly as they foster tagging as a division, it makes little sence to have two sets of titles other than the perception of USA and FOX not wanting one show to have something the other doesn't. On the company end, there are less teams and more angles and excuses for singles stars to "have something to do". Its more "let's form a stable... welp, guess these two guys are the requisite tag team". It's more "TAG TEAM MATCH, PLAYA!" type booking than actually fostering an environment for actual tag teams.

As for FTR, the gif of them with IcyHot on their nuts is the tip of the iceberg. Yes, they quit. Remember why? They said themselves WWE were about to saddle them with being a parody of 80s wrestlers in a comedic fashion. It was going to be another Ascention situation ("most dominant tag team" in NXT, made out to be jokes and never-wases on the main roster who talked big but never beat any one of note and got gangbanged by finishers from Legends teams that weren't even active on the roster anymore). Instead of being taken any sort of seriously, they were going to be part of the clusterfuck of guys chasing after the 24/7 Title. They were going to be finding new and creative ways to be taking the RKO. They were going to be footnotes; incidental guys who ate a pinfall or squeaked out a win in that one match where Singles Star A and Singles Star B began their feud and overshadowing anything The Revival did since that isn't and won't be the focus.

This isn't that "fedbad" bullshit that I'm already tired of. This is stuff that has precident and track records. This is the conclusion of the "baby we can change/we're listening to you fans" McMahon family promo that we've all made fun of. Tag team wrestling, midcard titles meaning anything whatsoever, and fostering anything close to a new career manager dies on the vine to ensure everyone oos and aahs at the fruit that is currently Roman Reigns, or previously John Cena, or whatever top-tier talent or market share ploy they consider worthy to throw ALL their attention into at the literal expense of everything else down the card.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott They hold very true. You have apparently confused me with an AEW fanboy. I've been bitching about this type of stuff in WWE for ages. I myself never made the argument about AEW having a better tag division. Their shit sucks in a completely different way, starting with the notion that :Schiavone voice: "The Young Bucks are the greatest tag team in the history of our sport"... but it wasn't the topic. So please stop with the false equivalancy shit. This has nothing to do with the very clear and utter bullshit in AEW right now. AEW's nonsense is a different subject entirely. Cut that out. Yes, the Usos have been together for MOST of their time in WWE (and initially were with Tamina), except when they weren't on those couple of times they had solo runs. New Day being together for 8 years has nothing to do with other teams being either randomly paired and/or broken up... and even there, they have been severed by the brand split more than once (but you prob'ly only remember the times they were considered "one person" and were drafted together). And on that, they were all almost fired because that forced positivity babyface BS they were on initially wasn't working, and as per usual, it was somehow "their fault" instead of just not being something fans wanted to see. They had to beg Vince to turn heel, which started them down the road to being together as a group for so long as talent the folks gave a shit about. On the other side of that fence, you had a team like The Major Brothers, who Vince decided after about two weeks that "nobody would buy them as brothers" even though nobody knew who the hell Brian Myers and Matt Cardona were on top of them having the same haircut and twinsy ring gear (and all that before they became Edge's stunt doubles for awhile). Meanwhile, that same company still to this day run with the kayfabe fantasy about Undertaker and Kane even though EVERYBODY knows better anymore. I also wasn't making a blanket statement that EVERY SINGLE TEAM gets split, though it has historically happened a lot. The divison as a whole always gets minimized. They get flashes of resurgance, just like I said before, but it never lasts. And again, I'm only counting main roster men's belts. The NXT titles don't mean much, because it isn't even close to guaranteed that the teams holding them will survive as teams to the main roster. For every Street Profits still there and allowed to be themselves, you have your AoPs, or Blake & Murphys, or Enzo & Cass's-es. And the women's tag teams are just the "everyone gets a turn 2.0 belts". There is no real division, and very few actual women's teams to begin with... just mostly a series of loose alliances that makes little sense to have a division around. Yes, RKBro is popular now, and a merch mover, but you know damn well they're nothing but another "odd couple" gimmick destined to be broken up. Most likely from Orton turning on Riddle - even though they may surprise everyone (doubt it) by having it go the other way. Alpha Academy is either the 4th or 5th tag partner for Chad Gable (I legit don't remember how many anymore), and second partner for Otis. They are literally both remnants of other teams that had been broken up. For as poorly as they foster tagging as a division, it makes little sence to have two sets of titles other than the perception of USA and FOX not wanting one show to have something the other doesn't. On the company end, there are less teams and more angles and excuses for singles stars to "have something to do". Its more "let's form a stable... welp, guess these two guys are the requisite tag team". It's more "TAG TEAM MATCH, PLAYA!" type booking than actually fostering an environment for actual tag teams. As for FTR, the gif of them with IcyHot on their nuts is the tip of the iceberg. Yes, they quit. Remember why? They said themselves WWE were about to saddle them with being a parody of 80s wrestlers in a comedic fashion. It was going to be another Ascention situation ("most dominant tag team" in NXT, made out to be jokes and never-wases on the main roster who talked big but never beat any one of note and got gangbanged by finishers from Legends teams that weren't even active on the roster anymore). Instead of being taken any sort of seriously, they were going to be part of the clusterfuck of guys chasing after the 24/7 Title. They were going to be finding new and creative ways to be taking the RKO. They were going to be footnotes; incidental guys who ate a pinfall or squeaked out a win in that one match where Singles Star A and Singles Star B began their feud and overshadowing anything The Revival did since that isn't and won't be the focus. This isn't that "fedbad" bullshit that I'm already tired of. This is stuff that has precident and track records. This is the conclusion of the "baby we can change/we're listening to you fans" McMahon family promo that we've all made fun of. Tag team wrestling, midcard titles meaning anything whatsoever, and fostering anything close to a new career manager dies on the vine to ensure everyone oos and aahs at the fruit that is currently Roman Reigns, or previously John Cena, or whatever top-tier talent or market share ploy they consider worthy to throw ALL their attention into at the literal expense of everything else down the card.

Sorry, I don’t agree with this. I’m critical of the automatic conclusion that “WWE doesn’t like tag teams,” “WWE doesn’t like managers.” I don’t think it is true. I provided my reasoning.