The WWE Future Endeavors Thread

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Vastardikai There's always a place in the wrestling business for a good hand. He'll almost certainly be a trainer in the Performance Center after his WWE run is over. I would argue that Big E is another example of attitude keeping someone around. He was just kind of there from his debut. They gave him the one big babyface run that fizzled. He was kind of just being used as a very buff jobber. He could have very easily been cut after he lost the IC title, but everyone seems to like him, as well. And he got another chance from there became part of one of the biggest draws in the WWE. I am ultimately saying that having a good attitude in WWE can give you chances that having all the talent in the world won't.

Even with that, though, it wasn't from lack of trying to fuck him up.

He was another one who was over in NXT even in that short stay. But they totally dropped the 5 count gimmick on the main roster presumably because they didn't want to educate fans on who the fuck King Kong Bundy was (much like never mentioning the goddamn Freebird Rule except in the ingredients list of the New Day t-shirt cereal box). They just made him mute and stuck him with Ziggles for zero reason, stripping out what was already working.

Then, even later, there was the point in time at the beginning of New Day where all three of them were on the chopping block because the bullshit forced babyface thing wasn't working, and they had to beg Vince to turn heel, which was exactly what they needed to start down the road to where they are now.

Even with someone like Big E, and him being an okay dude, it seems really hard for the company to get out of their own goddamn way.

[Vastardikai]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Even with that, though, it wasn't from lack of trying to fuck him up. He was another one who was over in NXT even in that short stay. But they totally dropped the 5 count gimmick on the main roster presumably because they didn't want to educate fans on who the fuck King Kong Bundy was (much like never mentioning the goddamn Freebird Rule except in the ingredients list of the New Day t-shirt cereal box). They just made him mute and stuck him with Ziggles for zero reason, stripping out what was already working. Then, even later, there was the point in time at the beginning of New Day where all three of them were on the chopping block because the bullshit forced babyface thing wasn't working, and they had to beg Vince to turn heel, which was exactly what they needed to start down the road to where they are now. Even with someone like Big E, and him being an okay dude, it seems really hard for the company to get out of their own goddamn way.

No one should expect that anything that works at NXT and their small, niche crowd will translate to working on the bigger, mainstream audience. Things that worked in NXT: Adam Rose and Emma's bad dancer gimmick.

They dropped the 5 count gimmick because they didn't need an awkward guy ripping off King Kong Bundy at the time. They need a guy to be muscle for Dolph Ziggler. And he was a massive dude who could fill that role.

As for your last point, this sounds like bitching because they gave Steve Austin "The Ringmaster" gimmick off the bat and he suggested tweaks to make it work. This is the thing about attitude I'm talking about: They could have very easily just bitched about the shitty hand they were dealt and they'd have been released. Instead, they believed in themselves and what they were doing, saw what wasn't working, and suggested tweaks to make it work.

That's not a failure on Creative's end. That is what separates the folks who are forgotten about from the biggest stars in wrestling. These folks would rather piss and moan than fight and prove that they want this shit. Sometimes that means suggesting changes. Sometimes, that means learning how to fucking yodel.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Vastardikai No one should expect that anything that works at NXT and their small, niche crowd will translate to working on the bigger, mainstream audience. Things that worked in NXT: Adam Rose and Emma's bad dancer gimmick. They dropped the 5 count gimmick because they didn't need an awkward guy ripping off King Kong Bundy at the time. They need a guy to be muscle for Dolph Ziggler. And he was a massive dude who could fill that role.

However, there's a difference between things not translating and not even fucking trying. If you recall, Adam Rose was a Vince call... he was over in NXT doing the Leo Kreuger shell-shocked crazy man shtick. He was another one of those "let's change fucking everything" guys. And apparently, Vince got bored with his own creation, much like he did back in the day with Drew McIntyre. Remember, Drew came in with PERSONAL promo hype from Vince himself and won the IC title in pretty short order, then that was done relatively quickly.

Meanwhile, while still in NXT, Baron Corbin got LESS OVER with time, because once they tried to move him beyond the timed squash matches, he got really exposed at being the shits. Even with the active disdain, they called him up as-is, and then the whole world got to see how shit he was.

Divorcing how anyone may feel about the guys, EVERYTHING about Enzo and Cass was hitting and they didn't need to change a goddamn thing from the "niche" NXT crowd. Roman Reigns' pre-Shield repackaging was essentially the prototype of what he is right now, but he was nowhere near ready for it. Bray Wyatt: cult leader extrordanare worked fine. Kevin Steen and Samoa Joe were basically the same things they've always been.

Imagine if they gave every call-up a fair shake like that instead of instantly trying to make random folks change shit immediately.

So back to Big E being Dolph's heater. They could have chose plenty of folks already on the main roster for that. They could have picked a call up from NXT who didn't have anything to them yet. Instead they took a guy who was at least over there, and didn't even try with him doing his own thing.

Its almost a coin flip if they're going to either leave someone alone, or try to fuck with them without even trying what was working for them. Using your Steve Austin comparison, it would be like he was full on beer drinking, middle finger, stunner, DTA "Rattlesnake" in NXT, and THEN for the main roster call up, they put The Ringmaster gimmick on him without even trying what was already working... and then when that went ass up, it's somehow because Steve wasn't trying.

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by Vastardikai No one should expect that anything that works at NXT and their small, niche crowd will translate to working on the bigger, mainstream audience. Things that worked in NXT: Adam Rose and Emma's bad dancer gimmick. They dropped the 5 count gimmick because they didn't need an awkward guy ripping off King Kong Bundy at the time. They need a guy to be muscle for Dolph Ziggler. And he was a massive dude who could fill that role. As for your last point, this sounds like bitching because they gave Steve Austin "The Ringmaster" gimmick off the bat and he suggested tweaks to make it work. This is the thing about attitude I'm talking about: They could have very easily just bitched about the shitty hand they were dealt and they'd have been released. Instead, they believed in themselves and what they were doing, saw what wasn't working, and suggested tweaks to make it work. That's not a failure on Creative's end. That is what separates the folks who are forgotten about from the biggest stars in wrestling. These folks would rather piss and moan than fight and prove that they want this shit. Sometimes that means suggesting changes. Sometimes, that means learning how to fucking yodel.

Early era NXT, yes that stupid stuff didn't translate. But starting with when K.O. and Balor came in, which was when Takeovers started drawing big, there were countless guys who didn't have to change anything and were over on the main roster. Then after so many botches, it became much harder to be invested the same way.

I am not sure if the exact dates, but for me personally I feel like the confidence was gone after they botched Bobby Roode. There were a few more callups after him where it was less excitement for what could be and more curiosity of how much they would screw it up.

After Ricochet and Black, that was when it seemed like it shifted to where nobody wanted to get called up because even they knew it would turn out bad.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 Early era NXT, yes that stupid stuff didn't translate. But starting with when K.O. and Balor came in, which was when Takeovers started drawing big, there were countless guys who didn't have to change anything and were over on the main roster. Then after so many botches, it became much harder to be invested the same way. I am not sure if the exact dates, but for me personally I feel like the confidence was gone after they botched Bobby Roode. There were a few more callups after him where it was less excitement for what could be and more curiosity of how much they would screw it up. After Ricochet and Black, that was when it seemed like it shifted to where nobody wanted to get called up because even they knew it would turn out bad.

Even though he fucked his own career up, I still think of the whole Velveteen Dream "Call Me Up, Vince" tights. I remember hoping that nobody took him up on that, because chances are they were going to do something to undo all the progress. Little did I know...

But yeah, Bobby Roode was a big one. So was EC3 (who never got called up). So was pretty much every tag team that came up from there, from The Ascension to War Machine.