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Old 06-01-2019, 11:18 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
Maybe Ambrose just isn’t as good as he thinks he is.
Hard to say.

His one appearance in AEW was fucking bonkers so we'll wait and see.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:56 AM   #82
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Maybe Ambrose just isn’t as good as he thinks he is.
Been saying this for years.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:09 PM   #83
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I don’t think Ambrose thinks he’s all that. He described being WWE champion as “cool”, not that he felt he was owed a reign.

Just that he knows his character would’ve been more compelling had he been alllwed to write his own stuff. He got signed mostly because of his promo abilities and they took the creative aspect away from him.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:30 PM   #84
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In-ring Dean isn't exactly perfect. But I think his character work will shine in AEW. I don't know if he's a "top guy" but he can be an important player IMO.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:20 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
In-ring Dean isn't exactly perfect. But I think his character work will shine in AEW. I don't know if he's a "top guy" but he can be an important player IMO.
It’s pretty obvious to me they will make him the top guy.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:51 PM   #86
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Quote:
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It’s pretty obvious to me they will make him the top guy.
To start with for sure. I mean more in the long run. We'll see if he can run with the ball at this point.
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:46 PM   #87
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He's certainly not HBK in the ring, nor The Rock on the mic, or anything, but, 1. I think his promo work when he's more or less unscripted and his promos are allowed to actually make sense and have a purpose puts him at the top of the industry currently, and 2. I think his in ring work is good enough to be a major main event AEW player and I'm really interested to see his in ring work when he's allowed to work outside of WWE's "same match every night/week" in ring style, especially with the other non-WWE talent he's going to get to potentially work with in the ring.
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:57 PM   #88
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Ambrose definitely comes off as a star. Especially in a world where Adam Page is probably gonna be the top guy.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
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Ambrose definitely comes off as a star. Especially in a world where Adam Page is probably gonna be the top guy.
Yeah - compared to a lot of those guys, his charisma comes across as big league.
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:00 PM   #90
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MOX was "emancipated?"

What's next, the "Connecticut compromise" (to speak-of where WWE is headquartered) and the "Underground Railroad" (to speak nothing-of Lucha Underground, which is anti-emancipation)?
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:21 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
lol too funny. All these attitude guys are like 'take risks and fight for your character.' WTF else could Dean do? Seems like he fought every day.
Yes, but diplomatically. Made his case, but then still did want Vince wanted.

Austin, Hogan, 90's Shawn Michaels, they would told Vince they aren't doing it and that would be it.

Not saying they were more professional than Dean, walking out clearly is not, but when they say they fought, that is the difference.

Hell, even good found Jesus Shawn Michaels didn't like how they booked his match with Hogan, so he bumped like a total assailed during their match, which was amazing btw.
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Old 06-01-2019, 07:30 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
Maybe Ambrose just isn’t as good as he thinks he is.
I used to really love Ambrose. Those Shield six-men tags were great. He had this cool charisma about him. He felt like a lead presence on the shows. At some point, he just fell off this massive cliff for me. It was probably around 2016 when he got demolished by Brock and then had that shitty program with Chris Jericho.

He has never captured my imagination again. Some of the clips I saw him in with Seth Rollins were kind of endearing, but he's just been...dull. And I mention 2016 as being his falling off point, but I can't tell you anything he did in 2015.

It could be a motivation problem, and WWE clearly micromanages and had this "zany, wacky" outline for him. But I'm not immediately stoked to see Jon Moxley anywhere. I don't care. His hype videos washed away a lot of the stigma I had towards him, but it's weird how up-and-down I feel about this guy I used to be a really big fan of.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:19 PM   #93
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He doesn't know how to sell
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:22 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
Yes, but diplomatically. Made his case, but then still did want Vince wanted.

Austin, Hogan, 90's Shawn Michaels, they would told Vince they aren't doing it and that would be it.

Not saying they were more professional than Dean, walking out clearly is not, but when they say they fought, that is the difference.

Hell, even good found Jesus Shawn Michaels didn't like how they booked his match with Hogan, so he bumped like a total assailed during their match, which was amazing btw.
The difference now being - as explained by Dean on Wade Keller's podcast - that if he or other guys go off script or take that kind of risk, a producer or writer will lose their job. So, like decent people, they stay on script. In Austin's day, he didn't have to worry about that. With Michaels bumping for Hogan, you had to be a "smart" fan to understand what he was doing and I don't think Vince cared.

It's not the same landscape. Austin has even said he couldn't succeed in this environment.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:08 PM   #95
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He is not great at anything, but Becky Lynch isn’t either and she is the most over person (or at least was) in WWE despite them doing their best to ruin it.

Fact is, he is the biggest story in wrestling right now. If he is anywhere near as good at the creative side as he seems to think he is, he could smash this out of the park.

Up to him now to prove that it was “all them”
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:14 PM   #96
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I get what you're saying there, Maluco, but just because one person isn't the best at anything doesn't mean that someone else that also isn't the best at anything is going to be able to succeed. It just doesn't disqualify them from truly connecting.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:31 PM   #97
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Quote:
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The difference now being - as explained by Dean on Wade Keller's podcast - that if he or other guys go off script or take that kind of risk, a producer or writer will lose their job. So, like decent people, they stay on script. In Austin's day, he didn't have to worry about that. With Michaels bumping for Hogan, you had to be a "smart" fan to understand what he was doing and I don't think Vince cared.

It's not the same landscape. Austin has even said he couldn't succeed in this environment.
Exactly. That, and Vince literally had no option but to more or less work, or at least compromise, with the top talent he had. Otherwise, he would've been really screwed. He doesn't have that issue anymore, at least not currently, thus the current product we see.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:45 PM   #98
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PWTorch revealed the topics to be discussed during their part 2 interview with Moxley
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:24 AM   #99
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I do think he needs to be careful making the rounds with his complaining about how bad Vince is.

It was ok for the first time he talked on Jericho's show.
I haven't listened, but if Wade asked him about the stuff he said in Jericho's show and to elaborate, I still think that is ok.

I think that is enough though, you don't want to make your entire narrative that Vince is dumb because he didn't use you like you would have liked and you are so good that he messed up and blah blah.

Going forward, forget WWE and Vince exist, and just make your narrative that you are taking over AEW.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:53 AM   #100
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He's doing a few podcasts after years of being silent and even being criticized for such. It's fine for him to get stuff off his chest and bring people closer to him with honesty. I doubt he's still doing this same thing forever.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:56 AM   #101
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To be fair, he's not really revealing anything ground breaking new when it comes to Vince being out of touch. Just puts it into perspective all the blame he was getting as a wrestler for Vince's shortcomings and why he was losing passion working there after a while.

Bunch of former writers, employee, and wrestlers have mentioned similar things about Vince's terrible creative habits and work environment for years.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:44 AM   #102
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I do think he needs to be careful making the rounds with his complaining about how bad Vince is.

It was ok for the first time he talked on Jericho's show.
I haven't listened, but if Wade asked him about the stuff he said in Jericho's show and to elaborate, I still think that is ok.

I think that is enough though, you don't want to make your entire narrative that Vince is dumb because he didn't use you like you would have liked and you are so good that he messed up and blah blah.

Going forward, forget WWE and Vince exist, and just make your narrative that you are taking over AEW.
I was going to post this exact same thing but you beat me to the punch. Great post and I completely agree.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:46 AM   #103
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Maybe Ambrose just isn’t as good as he thinks he is.
I do think there is a lot of truth to this, but I also believe that Ambrose (along with many other wrestlers) simply weren't maximized to their potential due to improper logistics (i.e. being given scripts that do not match their characters, not having proper creative freedom, etc.). It will be interesting to see how Ambrose does in AEW.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:09 AM   #104
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Since I've seen a couple of people posting their opinion on Jon Mox as a worker, star etc... I thought I'd give my two cents. There was always a way to describe Mox as a cross between Piper and Funk or whomever, Pillman, Austin, whomever. But I think we will see that he is really one of a kind. When I've seen him live I swear there is something about him ever time, no matter what bullshit he was booked to do. When I saw him in the ring live he had an electricity to him that I've only really seen from Rey Misterio Jr...

When Mox hits the ropes, or takes a powder, or is laying in punishment or even taking it. There is a charisma there that I can only describe as very (Terry) Funky. He's lucky as hell he got out at this time and had such an amazing impact on AEW on their first show. All of the things he is saying now, it needs to be said by someone who has been there like he has. We all know it but it needs to be said so maybe something can start to be done. Some awareness that Vince is actually ruining wrestling.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:21 AM   #105
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Moxley gets a lot of points from me for being a unique character in an era where it's really not very common.
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:25 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I get what you're saying there, Maluco, but just because one person isn't the best at anything doesn't mean that someone else that also isn't the best at anything is going to be able to succeed. It just doesn't disqualify them from truly connecting.
Surely connecting can come from being unique and being creative and maki g yourself stand out. The parallel is there with the man he was talking to. Jericho forced people to take notice of him by constantly being creative and reinventing himself and coming up with ideas and stories for his characters. His angle with Owens was nigh on impossible in current era WWE and he still pulled it off.

It obviously doesn’t mean that anyone can succeed, but it does mean that the chains are gone and that there should be no barriers in working hard and forcing people to notice. Especially with this attention he is getting straight out of the box
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:41 AM   #107
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I have faith in new Mox, shortcomings in the ring or not. There's a lot of guys who've been worse than him in the ring who've done quite well for themselves.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:16 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
I have faith in new Mox, shortcomings in the ring or not. There's a lot of guys who've been worse than him in the ring who've done quite well for themselves.
That's one point people are making that I disagree with completely. Yes he in unorthodox in style, but that is by no means bad. In fact I think that is what makes him better. I've never once doubted his in ring ability, different is a major plus.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:13 PM   #109
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There’s things he does I like. Others I don’t. Overall he is solid - just tended to miss during marquee moments where he could have set himself apart. I think he will be much more clutch in AEW.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:49 PM   #110
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I love Dean Ambrose and he was horribly misused. He has me very interested in AEW by himself.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:56 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
There’s things he does I like. Others I don’t. Overall he is solid - just tended to miss during marquee moments where he could have set himself apart. I think he will be much more clutch in AEW.
For all the things he complained about, I think he lost his real push after how bad he came across in Austin's WWE Network interview. He was getting a great push, MITB, cash in, Smackdowns first draft pick when the brands split, win the triple threat to keep the WWE Title around his waist and on Smackdown, when they carried him on their shoulders.

Then the Austin interview happened, and he kind of biffed his own push, so much so that they took the title off him they next month.

Had he not botched so badly that interview, where he came across as very mid card, he probably wouldn't have been pigeon holed into the glory crazy guy.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:52 AM   #112
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Lol The Austin interview had nothing to do with anything. He got the same half-assed push everyone who gets a title run nowadays gets.

I’m tempering my expectations for AEW but I have full faith in Moxley. He has... something. There’s an aura there that is rare nowadays.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:43 PM   #113
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He doesn't know how to sell
He does he just sells like Brody without the size so it plays...wrong
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:24 PM   #114
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His rebound clothesline got slower and clumsier every time he did it. Like RVD's stepover spin kick.

Like, it's so slow now that it's comical seeing his opponent just watch him bounce off the ropes and wait there for the clothesline.

It looked fucking awesome when he first did it though.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:27 PM   #115
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Also, selling is a WWE problem rather than an Ambrose problem.

I'd say the majority doesn't sell. Which makes me wonder whether it's the wrestlers themselves or if it has something to do with who is plotting out their matches.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:57 AM   #116
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It might be a company philosophy, but it might also be largely that some people just can't do it well nor see the importance in it. It's not really en vogue on the indies. It's probably a multi-faceted problem where the company is to blame for a lot of it, but the wrestlers also have their share in the responsibility, and many of them probably couldn't sell even if they wanted to.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:30 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
His rebound clothesline got slower and clumsier every time he did it. Like RVD's stepover spin kick.

Like, it's so slow now that it's comical seeing his opponent just watch him bounce off the ropes and wait there for the clothesline.

It looked fucking awesome when he first did it though.
This.

Some of it may have to do with how unmotivated he was as his run kept petering out.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:50 AM   #118
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I remember feeling so weird when he signed with WWE in the first place. This is a guy who had made a name for himself working a lot of violent, deathmatch-style matches and his promos, while brilliant, were far from PG. Lots of F fucking bombs.

Like, he deserved to be signed but it shocked me that they had interest in him but it seemed like they were destined to have a clash of ideas.

They were actually going to reference this. He was supposed to be Mick Foley's "last feud ever" in 2012 with Dean blaming Mick for a generation of fans mutilating themselves via deathmatches and backyard wrestling. No idea how they'd have pulled it off in a PG climate which is probably why it got axed in the first place.

Probably for the best, Mick probably would've felt the need to take one last big bump despite being 47 years old at the time.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:57 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
This.

Some of it may have to do with how unmotivated he was as his run kept petering out.
And to that, he referenced in his podcast with Wade Keller how he took pride in being one of "Vince's guys" until he realized how that was actually a bad thing. There could be certain habits (this is PURE speculation) that Vince could be directly responsible.

Couldn't you imagine Vince telling Mox he's throwing that clothesline to fast and he needs to "SLOW IT DOWN, PAL" so the audience can take it all in?
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:13 PM   #120
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Quote:
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I remember feeling so weird when he signed with WWE in the first place. This is a guy who had made a name for himself working a lot of violent, deathmatch-style matches and his promos, while brilliant, were far from PG. Lots of F fucking bombs.

Like, he deserved to be signed but it shocked me that they had interest in him but it seemed like they were destined to have a clash of ideas.

They were actually going to reference this. He was supposed to be Mick Foley's "last feud ever" in 2012 with Dean blaming Mick for a generation of fans mutilating themselves via deathmatches and backyard wrestling. No idea how they'd have pulled it off in a PG climate which is probably why it got axed in the first place.

Probably for the best, Mick probably would've felt the need to take one last big bump despite being 47 years old at the time.
I think that video of Moxley confronting Foley was the first time I’d ever seen him. I actually thought it was legit at first because I thought he was just some indy guy. He was fantastic in it. It’s sad to look back on. Hopefully he can bring that fire again.
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