Star Wars - SPOILERS INSIDE

[The Rogerer]

She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Originally Posted by The Rogerer She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.

We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.

[Kalyx triaD]

Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.

This is a cop out.

- We know she regarded Jedi as myth.
- We know somebody with any hint that they had Jedi powers would not be selling scrap for food.
- We know one does not pick up a lightsaber and beat a Sith Lord.
- We know one does not sit in the Falcon, fly it like a boss, repairs it to the surprise of its decades long owner, and... gets to keep it? It's not by default Chewie's ship?
- We know even if one discovers they are Force sensitive, you sure as shit don't just learn how to control people because 'she really wanted to'.

Saying we don't know what she knew beforehand is a cop out. Her abilities spawned out of convenience. I would have even deducted marks if they snuck in blink and you miss it clues that she had such power in the first half of the movie (Perhaps the salesman randomly goes easy on her and gives her a larger food portion after a subtle stare, or she makes an unusually good guess about where Finn was during pirate/monster clusterfuck, things like that).

It's not that she's Force sensitive, it's how especially proficient she is within a day of learning the fact. Anakin's thing was being freakishly strong even compared to other Jedi Masters, and he still had balancing traits. A learning curve. Flaws. He can be captured, rescued, humbled, etc. Luke took three movies to get badass and even then he needed daddy to save his ass from a clearly stronger opponent.

Saying she knew a few things from legends is a narrative cop out.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD This is a cop out. - We know she regarded Jedi as myth. - We know somebody with any hint that they had Jedi powers would not be selling scrap for food. - We know one does not pick up a lightsaber and beat a Sith Lord. - We know one does not sit in the Falcon, fly it like a boss, repairs it to the surprise of its decades long owner, and... gets to keep it? It's not by default Chewie's ship? - We know even if one discovers they are Force sensitive, you sure as shit don't just learn how to control people because 'she really wanted to'. Saying we don't know what she knew beforehand is a cop out. Her abilities spawned out of convenience. I would have even deducted marks if they snuck in blink and you miss it clues that she had such power in the first half of the movie (Perhaps the salesman randomly goes easy on her and gives her a larger food portion after a subtle stare, or she makes an unusually good guess about where Finn was during pirate/monster clusterfuck, things like that). It's not that she's Force sensitive, it's how especially proficient she is within a day of learning the fact. Anakin's thing was being freakishly strong even compared to other Jedi Masters, and he still had balancing traits. A learning curve. Flaws. He can be captured, rescued, humbled, etc. Luke took three movies to get badass and even then he needed daddy to save his ass from a clearly stronger opponent. Saying she knew a few things from legends is a narrative cop out.

Falcon:

She sells scrap to the person who owned the Falcon. The bread selling alien played by Simon Pegg. That alien ran out and said "THAT'S MY SHIP!" before the scene ended. She also knew the (illegal) history of Falcon's ownership. So, she had more than a passing familiarity with the Falcon. She ran to a more powerful ship because she knew the problems with the Falcon. She knew enough about the Falcon that she would probably not want to have to deal with it unless she had to.

The new default owner of the Falcon is Leia Organa Solo. Obviously she gave it to Rey to find her brother. Things don't have to be spelled out in front of you to understand things.

The only thing I don't get is why Chewbacca hangs around now. His life debt is over. Does he owe Finn a life-debt now? He did patch him up. Does a lifedebt transfer to marriage? Chewy has a wife and kid he hasn't seen since LifeDay. Can't he get some time off?

Selling Scrap:

She had to have a lot of skills to manage to scrap enough stuff from a dangerous downed Super Destroyer. Maybe she didn't know what her skills were from the Force but she had to have something guide her in that dangerous profession.

Sith Lord Defeat:

We don't know the length of Kylo Ren's training in the force. He was acting like a child in many scenes. He was shot in the chest, fought Finn with the lightsaber. There is also the point that he was force weakened by his actions of killing Han Solo. The action which was the reverse of what Snoke said (Either Snoke lied to him or he was wrong.) He was not at his best to say the very least. He also didn't want to harm her so he was taking it easy on her. He said "you need training." He was acting like Vader to Luke before he sliced off the hand in Empire after giving up at the time to seduce Luke. He was way off his game and was trying to bring her into the Darkside.

He lost the fight more than Rey won it.

[wwe2222]

If you think Chewy is not sticking around to avenge his best friends death than I don't know what to say

[Kalyx triaD]

Originally Posted by wwe2222 If you think Chewy is not sticking around to avenge his best friends death than I don't know what to say

Don't even attempt to pull this. Argue what I write, please.

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.

yes we do... she thought they were myths.

[Kalyx triaD]

Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon http://www.salon.com/2015/12/23/star...ing_the_point/

I read that and the Io9 apologetics. It is them who are missing the point. I'm arguing from a purely writer's perspective. They are sites documented to be biased on the side of identity politics and they're doing damage control after hyping up the concept of 'FEMALE STAR WARS HERO SO COOL'. They are going to have to accept that the criticisms for such character types can be put upon her without it being interpreted as an issue with female heroines in general.

This is why I prefaced my write up by saying I don't have any issue with female heroes. At all. In fact I have preference toward them. But Rey is the very definition of Mary Sue. I'm not asking her to be depowered. I'm not calling for no more female heroes in Star Wars. This is about the development of Rey herself. I didn't write anything political at all. Mary Sue/Gary Stus have long been defined and debated about for years preceding the current social political critique of characters. Rey is not above it.

Rey is a Mary Sue character. I'm not 'missing the point', I'm applying a writer's term by exact definition. They are merely doing damage control. This is what happens when you have sites like Io9 and Salon making habit out of politically filtered review: When they come across an uncomfortable fact, they circle the wagons and do spin control. This would not be the case had the characters were switched between Finn and Rey. Same movie; but Finn is the badass pilot/techy/Force adept who saves the day in the final duel.

Hazard a guess how the response articles would read then? Here's a hint, "Male Power Fantasy". They would shred Finn and his portrayal as not only OP, but blah blah yet another dismissal of women in movies blah blah why did she have to be saved so many times. Finn's story arc on Rey would all of a sudden be detrimental to how women are portrayed. Rey's story arc on Finn would be blasted as Gary Stu and typical male dominance or whatever. This is the problem with that kind of critique versus my purely technical critique; they have to contextualize a narrative based on gender, while I adhere to set in stone terms and definitions.

I described a character type, they are protecting a narrative. In order for their articles to make sense we would have to throw out everything we know about how to spot a Mary/Gary - and I'm not doing that because people can't separate character criticism from attacks on all characters of that gender. Fuck that.

Originally Posted by The Rogerer She pulls the Jedi mind trick out of her are, that was the bridge too far for me.

When even Rog thinks they jumped the shark with her, we are dealing with a Mary Sue.

And again, once a-fucking-gain - I am not blasting this as 'bad'. There's nothing to defend purely from a technical standpoint. But they protests too much (as I stated in the other post). They project. Their reaction being some kind of damage control is because they think there was damage. They think female heroes is some kind of new movement they have to protect with unofficial PR articles. Only they care about it this way, not me or others. Because they are the ones with the slant.