MLB 2010-2011 Off Season Thread

[Damian Rey]

I'd say losing a reliable go to guy in the rotation, like Pettite was, is a huge loss. Yea, you can say "well he only threw x amount of innings", but the fact is, they're relying on an unproven starter in Nova, who could continue to grow or get shalacked, and a wash up in Garcia, who is being backed by another washup in Colon, with plan C being Millwood in the minors, who hasn't been what I would call stellar.

Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

The bullpen looks stellar, and the offense is what it is, but a great set up relief core isn't going to do squat if the middle and back end of the rotation can't give them the lead.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I'd say losing a reliable go to guy in the rotation, like Pettite was, is a huge loss. Yea, you can say "well he only threw x amount of innings", but the fact is, they're relying on an unproven starter in Nova, who could continue to grow or get shalacked, and a wash up in Garcia, who is being backed by another washup in Colon, with plan C being Millwood in the minors, who hasn't been what I would call stellar. Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble. The bullpen looks stellar, and the offense is what it is, but a great set up relief core isn't going to do squat if the middle and back end of the rotation can't give them the lead.

I'd say they had 2 huge losses. Both pitching. First they lost on Lee. HUGE LOSS and then Pettitte didn't come back: ANOTHER HUGE LOSS! Do you know what I think will happen? They will tread water for maybe 2 to 3 months just until the deadline and then put together a package for a good pitcher. By then some pitchers may even cost less (Player wise of course) because of the team. By then Garcia will be gone. Ivan Nova may be gone (If he doesn't do well) I admit the Yankees have problems major problems but I think they have enough skill to stand tough just until the trading deadline.

I am actually a little worried not about the season but who will be traded. I think Montero will probably be traded. But, if we need to trade Banuelous I would be extremely sad. He had a really good spring and I really don't wanna lose him. I can't wait till I see him get a call up.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J I'd say they had 2 huge losses. Both pitching. First they lost on Lee. HUGE LOSS and then Pettitte didn't come back: ANOTHER HUGE LOSS! Do you know what I think will happen? They will tread water for maybe 2 to 3 months just until the deadline and then put together a package for a good pitcher. By then some pitchers may even cost less (Player wise of course) because of the team. By then Garcia will be gone. Ivan Nova may be gone (If he doesn't do well) I admit the Yankees have problems major problems but I think they have enough skill to stand tough just until the trading deadline. I am actually a little worried not about the season but who will be traded. I think Montero will probably be traded. But, if we need to trade Banuelous I would be extremely sad. He had a really good spring and I really don't wanna lose him. I can't wait till I see him get a call up.

Isn't Banuelos a starter, and close? If that's the case, they're better off keeping him and bringing him up and starting Montero than trading them for some veteran. Honestly, who is out there right now that looks like a viable option to trade for that's actually worth it?

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Isn't Banuelos a starter, and close? If that's the case, they're better off keeping him and bringing him up and starting Montero than trading them for some veteran. Honestly, who is out there right now that looks like a viable option to trade for that's actually worth it?

He is a starter and he's close. But in my honest opinion he isn't 2011 close. He's maybe 2012 close or 2013 close. The kid just turned 20 years old this month and all though we may see some of our prospects I think he's got a year or two before he actually does anything in the majors. And Montero isn't gonna be starting just yet. His spring was so shitty they sent him back to the minors which I couldn't be more angry/upset/sad about. Gustavo Molina will be in Montero's place. Now will Montero be back? Most likely!

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

Originally Posted by Vox Populi There's been talk of a Liriano deal off and on throughout the offseason, but understandably the Twins are asking big for him.

I don't know if the Yankees would bite on that. The Twins, as you said, are justifiably asking for the moon, and I think theyre more likely to keep Liriano and either extend him for a reasonable price or take the draft picks when the time to make that decision comes. I do not think they're going to get hosed like they did with the Santana deal.

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J He is a starter and he's close. But in my honest opinion he isn't 2011 close. He's maybe 2012 close or 2013 close. The kid just turned 20 years old this month and all though we may see some of our prospects I think he's got a year or two before he actually does anything in the majors. And Montero isn't gonna be starting just yet. His spring was so shitty they sent him back to the minors which I couldn't be more angry/upset/sad about. Gustavo Molina will be in Montero's place. Now will Montero be back? Most likely!

I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on. I don't know if the Yankees would bite on that. The Twins, as you said, are justifiably asking for the moon, and I think theyre more likely to keep Liriano and either extend him for a reasonable price or take the draft picks when the time to make that decision comes. I do not think they're going to get hosed like they did with the Santana deal. I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

20 is really young for anyone to break into the majors. We may see Noesi, Betances, etc.etc. I just don't think he'd be ready today. It's better to maybe wait a while longer let him be in the minors then at some point you let Colon go and let him get his feet wet by being sixth starter sometimes for this season then he'll be ready to be a number 2 or a number 3 come 2012 or 2013.

They might be going the Bryce Harper route. Which I don't think is such a bad idea. Bryce Harper is ready to go right now. But, he will probably end up being a September call up. And maybe they are hoping Banuelous is a September call up too.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J 20 is really young for anyone to break into the majors. We may see Noesi, Betances, etc.etc. I just don't think he'd be ready today. It's better to maybe wait a while longer let him be in the minors then at some point you let Colon go and let him get his feet wet by being sixth starter sometimes for this season then he'll be ready to be a number 2 or a number 3 come 2012 or 2013. They might be going the Bryce Harper route. Which I don't think is such a bad idea. Bryce Harper is ready to go right now. But, he will probably end up being a September call up. And maybe they are hoping Banuelous is a September call up too.

I think if Harper came up today, he'd get owned for awhile. With pitching, if you have great stuff, you can get away with things. Hitting is different. Harper could come up, but he's gonna be facing savvy veteran pitchers who know how to get guys out. He wouldn't be facing those kinds of guys in the minors, where kids are still developing mechanics and what not.

I agree. No need to rush period. Garcia, Colon, Millwood is the totem pole I'm seeing for the 5th starter role. If that collapses, I can see them trying to acquire a solid, middle to back end innings eater, who, while not a sexy name, can give them quality innings. It's just a matter of who fits that profile that's currently out there.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I think if Harper came up today, he'd get owned for awhile. With pitching, if you have great stuff, you can get away with things. Hitting is different. Harper could come up, but he's gonna be facing savvy veteran pitchers who know how to get guys out. He wouldn't be facing those kinds of guys in the minors, where kids are still developing mechanics and what not. I agree. No need to rush period. Garcia, Colon, Millwood is the totem pole I'm seeing for the 5th starter role. If that collapses, I can see them trying to acquire a solid, middle to back end innings eater, who, while not a sexy name, can give them quality innings. It's just a matter of who fits that profile that's currently out there.

Yeah, I'm not expecting any "Sexy names" Most of them would be damn near impossible to get anyway (Hernandez, JJ, Cain, Lincecum, etc.etc.etc.)

All though I would prefer one of our minors pulling the job if one of them doesn't work out but they can't really be an "Innings eater" Someone has gotta stick though. With Garcia, Colon, Millwood, and even Prior. I hardly doubt that all 4 of them will fail at the same time. If they do then we go out and find someone. But we got 4 guys. One of them I think is gonna stick. I could be wrong I hope not. But, if I am we have got other choices like trading.

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

And for 5/6ths of the season, that leaning resulted in extremely Burnettish numbers.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

Most scouts and baseball people have said he could come up and be a decent pitcher right now in the majors. But he's still really young and only pitched 15 innings above A ball. He needs to get time in the minors to build up his innings count and stuff like that.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

And this really goes back to my other point earlier. With a weak rotation the Yankees will still win a ton of games because of their offense. In June and July when he put up ERAs above 5 he went 6-3.

The Yankees rotation isn't flashy or anything but if the back-end guys (Nova and Garcia) put up average stats this rotation will be better than last years. Obviously assuming CC is CC. I mean Garcia alone last year pitched 18 quality starts, Vasquez had 10. Pitching that many decent games will get these guys wins on the Yankees.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Dragon His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

Thank you for the correction. As such, it turns out that from JUNE 1st on, the most important months of the season, Hughes' ERA was actually over a 5, and that doesn't even factor in the fact that he looked completely lost in the playoffs.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

Who? I went through quick but I found two guys that had better years than Hughes that were 24 or younger - Price and Buchholz. Other guys -

Matusz - 175 IP 4.30 ERA 1.34 WHIP 98 ERA+

Bergeson - 170 IP 4.98 ERA 1.43 WHIP 85 ERA+

Davis - 168 IP 4.07 ERA 1.35 WHIP 97 ERA+

Cecil - 172 IP 4.22 ERA 1.32 WHIP 98 ERA+

Hughes - 176 IP 4.19 ERA 1.24 WHIP 102 ERA+

Like I said, I went through quick so probably missed a guy or two but what about Hughes makes him worse than other 24 year olds in the division. Obviously Price and Buchholz were on another level last year.

I guess unless you are breaking it down to Hughes had two terrible months and other guys didn't. I didn't look that deep into the stats but I'm sure I could find most of these other guys having some terrible months.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

I'm definitely not writing them off, but they got worse than last year. Their replacement for Crawford might be in-house but that doesn't mean he's gonna be putting up Crawford like numbers any time soon.

Their team has a ton of potential obviously but they're breaking in a couple rookies this year. Maybe they go crazy and produce right out of the gates but more likely than not they'll go through some growing pains.

They might have the second best rotation in the division but its not like it doesn't have as many questions as other teams in the division. They have Price who should be great, followed by Shields who was as bad as Burnett last year, two guys who had solid years last year in Davis and Niemann and a rookie in Hellickson. They have a ton of potential but still have questions.