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Old 03-21-2022, 04:18 PM   #8441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
I may be wrong here (often am as I’m not subscribed to this one vs. the other nonsense, and I’m not on Twitter) but the guy that posted that is a fan, not affiliated with AEW at all outside of being a fan. So how does the criticism become of AEW not being able to “take a win”?
The whole culture around this is stupid. xrod is right — you could have just told the truth. It’s this need — and it’s shared by fans, the company and commentators like Meltzer — to prop this thing up way more than is honest or reflective of the reality we live in.

It’s pissing in the wind and saying it’s raining. It’s annoying and people are allowed to be annoyed by it. In some cases it can even turn people away from enjoying a product. Who likes it when Jehovah’s Witnesses actually come to the door, right? And it’s harmful to historically accurate discourse. It doesn’t do AEW any favors to pretend that they are overachieving and there’s no work to be done when it comes to repairing the view many people have of wrestling.

AEW doing its record gate is fine. We don’t need the comparisons to promotions that thrived back in the day of actual ticket offices. We don’t need to ignore that AEW’s doing better ratings than it was this time last year largely because NXT is no longer competing with it. We can call 120k global PPV buys in an era where any kid can watch on their tablet what it is without needing to compare to terrestrial PPV you needed to prioritize in your household and throw on the bill.

Everyone and their dog knows this company isn’t going gangbusters. They go wild when AEW approaches Raw in men aged 18-34 — and let’s be honest — advertisers aren’t going wild for the 34 yr old men watching wrestling. But they know exactly what would happen if Raw and Dynamite went head-to-head on a Monday. Yet they still treat it like a head-to-head win.

People are going to lead with their biases and their hopes and their dreams. That’s what it is. But it does get a little annoying when that poisons what is supposed to be something resembling factual reporting around modern events.
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Old 03-21-2022, 09:56 PM   #8442
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A company that’s not only still in business but selling ppvs and putting asses in seats while having a multi year TV deal to produce 3 hours of TV and semi regular weekend specials is only “slightly more successful” than companies that don’t exist. Amazing.
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Old 03-21-2022, 10:21 PM   #8443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
Serious question, why do they not just say "$1.1 Million is AEW's best gate ever"? A pure, simple fact with no spin. I would have read that and thought "solid gate, good for them" and would not have anything to complain about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
The whole culture around this is stupid. xrod is right — you could have just told the truth.
Yeah, no one in their right mind would bitch about someone stating the simple truth that AEW had their record gate and awkwardly try to downplay it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Dave Meltzer’s going to bat for AEW again. In order to spread propaganda that this thing is growing, Dave has used a bunch of weird metrics.

* First $1 million gate! Cool? You sellout a first-run venue and charge a lot for tickets this is doable.
Oh.
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Old 03-21-2022, 10:27 PM   #8444
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I don’t even know what convoluted point he’s trying to make
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Old 03-22-2022, 03:49 AM   #8445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
Yeah, no one in their right mind would bitch about someone stating the simple truth that AEW had their record gate and awkwardly try to downplay it.



Oh.
So you quoted the first part of what I wrote, but ignored the rest where I explained why I had an issue? That seems like an awkward way to downplay my explanation.
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:19 AM   #8446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
So you quoted the first part of what I wrote, but ignored the rest where I explained why I had an issue? That seems like an awkward way to downplay my explanation.
Lol, don’t try and reason with that guy. It’s not about having a conversation in good faith for him. He’s got a projection erection. He’s just gotta try and GOTCHA because it’s all about GOTCHA. Doesn’t matter if his interpretation of something isn’t the most logical one or makes any sort of sense in the first place. Doesn’t matter if it’s completely dishonest. GOTCHA!
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Old 03-22-2022, 10:08 AM   #8447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
So you quoted the first part of what I wrote, but ignored the rest where I explained why I had an issue? That seems like an awkward way to downplay my explanation.
Your issue is petty and forced, your analogy was not analogous to what the guy tweeted and I’m not gonna spend three pages trying to get you to understand why only for you to still be as confused as you were in
the beginning.

I quoted the part that was relevant to what Derpfect said.
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Old 03-22-2022, 10:13 AM   #8448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Doesn’t matter if his interpretation of something isn’t the most logical one or makes any sort of sense in the first place. Doesn’t matter if it’s completely dishonest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
* Cody vs. MJF. If I recall, this was badly explained on TV. The Cody/Max relationship was brought up a couple of times, then MJF just randomly turned heel on Cody and they never touched again.
Too fucking easy.
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Old 03-22-2022, 11:11 AM   #8449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
Your issue is petty and forced, your analogy was not analogous to what the guy tweeted and I’m not gonna spend three pages trying to get you to understand why only for you to still be as confused as you were in
the beginning.

I quoted the part that was relevant to what Derpfect said.
It is petty because you think it is petty. I think it is valid criticism, not everything needs to be overhyped from the company or the fans.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:10 PM   #8450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
It is petty because you think it is petty. I think it is valid criticism, not everything needs to be overhyped from the company or the fans.
Your criticisms are valid. He can’t dismiss them on their grounds, so he has to contextualize them how he sees fit. They’re “petty” because he needs them to be to dismiss them.

People don’t like liars. The company and its fans lie (including gormless-norm). People don’t like it, he goes wah! It’s not just you and me calling out this sort of aggrandizing in this thread. He’s picking a fight with you because it’s you. He develops fixations and you’re his latest one. If you started praising AEW for false achievements, he’d be saying things like “There are plenty of reasons to praise this company, but these are not among them.”

He’s the worst kind of faux-intellectual. He believes he has a firm grasp on logic, but he starts with the conclusion he wants and works his way out. There is no benefit in trying to reason with him.

Ask him to actually address the points you’re raising. He won’t be able to do it. Does he actually believe that getting a $1 million gate in 2022 is suitably framed in context by ignoring inflation? Of course not. He’s disingenuous as fuck. And he’s got the audacity to call you petty, lol.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:14 PM   #8451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
People don’t like liars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
* Cody vs. MJF. If I recall, this was badly explained on TV. The Cody/Max relationship was brought up a couple of times, then MJF just randomly turned heel on Cody and they never touched again.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:17 PM   #8452
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You’re probably being really succinct and to the point and already proving all that, but as someone who likes to have discussions in good faith, his conduct is really bothersome to me. More people should call him out on his bullshit. I got done with it and as soon as he is gone you realize he adds NOTHING to conversation anymore. Not a single thing. He has no insights. He’s dependent on you now like he was dependent on me.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:25 PM   #8453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
…as someone who likes to have discussions in good faith, his conduct is really bothersome to me.
BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
* Cody vs. MJF. If I recall, this was badly explained on TV. The Cody/Max relationship was brought up a couple of times, then MJF just randomly turned heel on Cody and they never touched again.
Getting caught in another bold face, easily demonstrable lie is so embarrassing this fucker’s gonna overpost to try to bury it despite “having me on ignore”.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:46 PM   #8454
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Will we have this same debate when WWE lie about and then promote their attendance figures for Mania?
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:46 PM   #8455
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There’s been no “meltdown” yet, but Kenny Omega liked a tweet that mocked Cody returning to “sports entertainment.” Between Brandi, Omega and just the way this stuff goes — meltdown impending, folks.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:48 PM   #8456
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Quote:
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Will we have this same debate when WWE lie about and then promote their attendance figures for Mania?
No, because everyone knows the WWE’s numbers are bullshit and call them on their spin. Very few people do with AEW. But I am glad to see that number is increasing as infatuation with this fad fades.
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:50 PM   #8457
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WWE calls Raw the longest running weekly episodic show on television.

LET’S JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS OF ALL THE NON-WEEKLY EPISODIC TV SHOWS.

OMG THOSE FUCKS!
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Old 03-22-2022, 12:55 PM   #8458
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When they come out and tell you this is the highest grossing Mania of all-time, that will probably be true. That will no doubt have something to do with the economic factors surrounding it. To pretend that is causally linked to the quality of the product is a falsehood.

This Mania will probably be the most watched Mania of all-time because of the Peacock deal. Should we just pretend that accessibility was there for the shows of yesteryear?
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Old 03-22-2022, 02:47 PM   #8459
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Quote:
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Will we have this same debate when WWE lie about and then promote their attendance figures for Mania?
I love this kind of rationale, (FYI, if someone says, for example, that this Mania is the most tickets they ever sold to Mania, I would point out that combined over 2 nights is not the same) but why does it matter?

Why do I have to prove everytime that I criticize AEW that I would have also criticized WWE in the past and/or would in the future?

This is another aspect about AEW fandom I have talked about for years.

AEW and its fandom seemingly cannot survive without WWE, not their TV shows, not their podcasts, not their tweets, not their over hype, not their self congratulating validation, nothing. AEW without "BUT WWE" would have hardly any storylines, a big lack of talking points, and literally NO rallying cry to speak of to pump up the cult.

"YEAH WE HAD THE BEST NON-WWE GATE EVER!!!! SURE, IT IS LIKE 10% OF WWE, BUT YEAH WE WHOOPED 1999 ECW AND 2007 IMPACT SO WOOOOOOOO FUCK YOU WWE HAHAHA!!!"

Not doing anywhere NEAR as good as WWE does, but doing better than OTHER wrestling companies, means AEW is doing better than WWE?!? It is illogical, annoying, and asinined.

Ill go back to my question, why do they not just say "$1.1 Million is AEW's best gate ever"? Answer, because Cultist don't care about that, but if they can use it to pretend AEW GOOD FED BAD, well shit it is party time.
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Old 03-22-2022, 02:55 PM   #8460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
WWE calls Raw the longest running weekly episodic show on television.

LET’S JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS OF ALL THE NON-WEEKLY EPISODIC TV SHOWS.

OMG THOSE FUCKS!
Are we really back to this???
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Old 03-22-2022, 02:57 PM   #8461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
"YEAH WE HAD THE BEST NON-WWE GATE EVER!!!! SURE, IT IS LIKE 10% OF WWE, BUT YEAH WE WHOOPED 1999 ECW AND 2007 IMPACT SO WOOOOOOOO FUCK YOU WWE HAHAHA!!!"

Not doing anywhere NEAR as good as WWE does, but doing better than OTHER wrestling companies, means AEW is doing better than WWE?!? It is illogical, annoying, and asinined.
Lol Literally no one said or implied that doing better than every non-WWE company means they’re doing better than WWE. Literally… no one.

That’s your weird interpretation so that you can make up an “AEW BAD” out of nowhere.
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Old 03-22-2022, 02:57 PM   #8462
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Old 03-22-2022, 02:58 PM   #8463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
WWE calls Raw the longest running weekly episodic show on television.

LET’S JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS OF ALL THE NON-WEEKLY EPISODIC TV SHOWS.

OMG THOSE FUCKS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
Are we really back to this???
It’s called an actual, proper analogy. I know that’s a foreign concept to you.
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Old 03-22-2022, 02:59 PM   #8464
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Old 03-22-2022, 03:04 PM   #8465
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Quote:
Why do I have to prove everytime that I criticize AEW that I would have also criticized WWE in the past and/or would in the future?”
You don’t but I think doing so lends itself to being somewhat “fair” in your “assessment”. But you’re not trying to be “fair”, so why would you?

Quote:
”YEAH WE HAD THE BEST NON-WWE GATE EVER!!!! SURE, IT IS LIKE 10% OF WWE, BUT YEAH WE WHOOPED 1999 ECW AND 2007 IMPACT SO WOOOOOOOO FUCK YOU WWE HAHAHA!!!"

Not doing anywhere NEAR as good as WWE does, but doing better than OTHER wrestling companies, means AEW is doing better than WWE?!? It is illogical, annoying, and asinined.
The tweet that we’ve been talking about doesn’t even do this.
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Old 03-22-2022, 03:09 PM   #8466
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The amount of just flat out making shit up between these two… I’ve never seen anything like it in all my years of inter-webbing.
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Old 03-22-2022, 03:25 PM   #8467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I love this kind of rationale, (FYI, if someone says, for example, that this Mania is the most tickets they ever sold to Mania, I would point out that combined over 2 nights is not the same) but why does it matter?

Why do I have to prove everytime that I criticize AEW that I would have also criticized WWE in the past and/or would in the future?

This is another aspect about AEW fandom I have talked about for years.

AEW and its fandom seemingly cannot survive without WWE, not their TV shows, not their podcasts, not their tweets, not their over hype, not their self congratulating validation, nothing. AEW without "BUT WWE" would have hardly any storylines, a big lack of talking points, and literally NO rallying cry to speak of to pump up the cult.

"YEAH WE HAD THE BEST NON-WWE GATE EVER!!!! SURE, IT IS LIKE 10% OF WWE, BUT YEAH WE WHOOPED 1999 ECW AND 2007 IMPACT SO WOOOOOOOO FUCK YOU WWE HAHAHA!!!"

Not doing anywhere NEAR as good as WWE does, but doing better than OTHER wrestling companies, means AEW is doing better than WWE?!? It is illogical, annoying, and asinined.

Ill go back to my question, why do they not just say "$1.1 Million is AEW's best gate ever"? Answer, because Cultist don't care about that, but if they can use it to pretend AEW GOOD FED BAD, well shit it is party time.
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Old 03-22-2022, 03:36 PM   #8468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
The amount of just flat out making shit up between these two… I’ve never seen anything like it in all my years of inter-webbing.
But they just want to have discussions in good faith!
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Old 03-22-2022, 03:56 PM   #8469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
But they just want to have discussions in good faith!
Absolutely we do. In your case, you can’t keep up. Apparently fan is calling us liars because…I don’t know. xrod doesn’t lie, from everything I’ve read, and I know I don’t.

Oh wait, it’s because I called him out on the dishonest nature of his fixations.
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:20 PM   #8470
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There is evidence that points to the contrary on that “we want to have discussions in good faith” point.
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:22 PM   #8471
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Yeah, screech. You gotta keep up with the superior intelligence and total honesty of a guy who reads “largest non-WWE gate” as “better than WWE” and a guy who shits on AEW for booking angles that happened inside his own head.
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:33 PM   #8472
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That would require reading more of their dumb posts than what other people quote. Doesn't seem worth it.
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:49 PM   #8473
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did not realize former backyard rassler KAGE of various tpww backyard wrestling threads is actually FUEGO DEL SOL in AEW
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:51 PM   #8474
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Quote:
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did not realize former backyard rassler KAGE of various tpww backyard wrestling threads is actually FUEGO DEL SOL in AEW
Lol wtf
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:55 PM   #8475
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:58 PM   #8476
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oh my god
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Old 03-22-2022, 04:59 PM   #8477
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Old 03-22-2022, 07:43 PM   #8478
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Little late...but this whole thing with DDT wrestling is weird af to me. The network doesn't want them to sign The Briscoes....but is ok with them working with a company that had a title called GAY World Anal Championship (They unified it with their Extreme title eventually)? Dunno... I don't think a working relationship with DDT is a good look imo.
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Old 03-22-2022, 07:45 PM   #8479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
There’s been no “meltdown” yet, but Kenny Omega liked a tweet that mocked Cody returning to “sports entertainment.” Between Brandi, Omega and just the way this stuff goes — meltdown impending, folks.
Kenny DMed Meltzer already and told him no matter what, Cody must NEVER receive a 5 star match rating in WWE.
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Old 03-22-2022, 08:39 PM   #8480
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AEW could rake in 100million views a show, cause Russia to surrender, cure cancer, and single handedly convince MTV to go back to being a music television station (also spawn a bunch of cool ass bands) andddd Noid would still draw straw man arguments.

PS. Give him an adequate pee pee, too.
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