11-13-2020, 05:31 AM | #1 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
The WWF in 1991
So, this week, SCG Radio returns with the first episode of a mini-series covering 1991 in the WWF, and I thought it might be worth starting a thread and get some talk going about what was an insane year in the WWF's history.
In this first part, we discuss the absolute disaster that was the Sgt. Slaughter push, leading to and through the Royal Rumble, the shocking decision to put the World Title on him, and the feud with Hulk Hogan. Discussing all the media fallout, the promos, the presentation of the angle as well as backstage notes on feelings behind-the-scenes, the show breaks down Vince McMahon's terrible decision to exploit the Persian Gulf War so shamelessly. Check it out and let us know your thoughts - I'm particularly interested in the long-term fans take on how you viewed the Slaughter push as it happened. https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/r9ek...rt_1A9ki0h.mp3 Crazy Like A Fox - The Definitive Chronicle of Brian Pillman 20 Years Later **Featuring interviews with members of the Pillman family, Dave Meltzer, Kim Wood, Raven, Jim Cornette, Mark Madden, Shane Douglas, Mark Coleman, Alex Marvez, Les Thatcher and many more close friends and colleagues** Available on Amazon now: http://amzn.to/2h93SxL |
11-13-2020, 07:49 AM | #2 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,136
|
That’s my journey to and from work sorted.
|
11-14-2020, 09:28 PM | #3 |
Posts: 60,919
|
As always, appreciate the podcasts. Tremendous work. Hope things are holding up as steady as they can be in the UK. More SCG Radio! More!
|
11-15-2020, 10:16 AM | #4 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
|
Damn wish I was able to ask a question about Kane/Dreamer's career in 1991
|
11-15-2020, 12:56 PM | #5 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,136
|
Looking forward to part 2. Biggest question is; will it really be out next week?
|
11-15-2020, 02:48 PM | #6 |
Posts: 60,919
|
|
11-15-2020, 05:18 PM | #7 |
Tag Team Wrestling Mark!
Posts: 2,339
|
Another excellent listen. Missed the regular shows but worth the wait when one surprisingly drops
|
11-19-2020, 04:56 PM | #8 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
Fear not gentlemen - SCG Radio returns this week for the second part of our series covering the WWF in 1991! Today, Liam O'Rourke and Kyle Ross look at WrestleMania 7, all the highs and lows of the show, notes on the success or failure of the event (spoiler: it was a failure), moves Vince McMahon made between January and March in the bodybuilding world, a notable doctor gets indicted, and we talk all about the undercard scene for the first three months of the year, all with notes, facts and figures from the Wrestling Observer newsletters of the period. A ton of fun, check it out and let us know what you think!
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/dmat...rt_1Bbp0xu.mp3 |
11-20-2020, 05:15 PM | #9 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,136
|
|
11-20-2020, 05:20 PM | #10 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,903
|
I just can't get into 1990-92 WWF. I stopped watching at around 90 and started again around 94.
I only watch older footage nowadays and I still can't into this time period |
11-28-2020, 03:44 PM | #11 |
Hellraiser Extraordinaire
Posts: 670
|
I'm just going to throw some mental spaghetti at the wall here, and see what sticks. My brain can only do that on this right now.
I think that 1991 can be seen as a bit of an experimental year for the WWF, and here's why. In 1991, the WWF ended up, in it's main event scene, doing something that kind of resembled a lite version of what, 6 years later, ended up being 'The Attitude Era'. The 1991 storyline that travelled that road involved the following 8 talents. Hulk Hogan The Ultimate Warrior 'Macho Man' Randy Savage Miss Elizabeth Sid Justice Jake 'The Snake' Roberts Paul Bearer The UnderTaker The 1st half of the storyline, from what I observed, was Jake engaging in his manipulations of Ultimate Warrior. that was triggered by A] UnderTaker dumping Warrior into the steel casket on the Funeral Parlor, and B] Jake's descent into darkness after Earthquake ended Damien, and turned Damien into food. That kind of material is not really something that would be geared too well to an audience of kids ranging in age from 7-11 for 1991 standards. Due to the fact that, after SummerSlam 1991, we didn't get to see the payoff between Roberts & Warrior(which would've led to Roberts being liquified by an intensely pissed off Warrior), everything about that transitioned into the other 5 getting involved in a 2-front narrative, with the first front being Sid coming to Savage and Liz's rescue at the failed reception, and then Taker going after the WWF Championship held by Hogan. The darkest parts of the 2nd half ended up being A] the king cobra biting Savage, B] Roberts slapping Elizabeth, and C] Roberts wanting to put Liz to sleep with a chair shot to the head. As we know, Taker saved Liz, turned on Roberts, and beat him at WM VIII in 1992, which to me, ended all of the different parts of that storyline, with the rest of the remnants being swept away when Hogan beat Justice that same night. Possible that Sid's personality heeled off when he got exposed to Jake's corruptive influence? It was a decent attempt to create more mature programming for the 1991 version of the WWF, but the fanbase wasn't really ready to see that happen yet, and it kind of flew under the radar. Had that happened 5 years later, in 1996, it'dve been given more attention, and the fans would've ate that narrative up like ThanksGiving/Christmas dinner. Does that make sense? |
11-29-2020, 07:24 AM | #12 |
Posts: 60,919
|
You had the right star and cultural zeitgeist when Austin was there in 1998 to really capitalize with Attitude. It wasn’t so much the content as it was the star vehicle.
By 1991, Hogan had just been around so much. It’s not that believable to see a guy remain on top for such a long time (it’s one of my big arguments against Undertaker and the streak). This occurred to me during the 1990 series, but I do wonder just how important the shift in decade was to people’s perceptions and what Vince was thinking. The difference between 1989 and 1990 might be an arbitrary distance of one year, but people do tend to think in terms of time clusters. It’s satisfying to try and categorize “90’s culture,” even though 1998 is as close to 2006 as it is 1990. And that’s a reality promoters might have to wrestle with, even if they don’t go in for it. How fans were looking at the WWF and Hulk Hogan through the prism of the 90’s could have been a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
11-29-2020, 11:55 AM | #13 |
Posts: 1,398
|
I loved the latter half of 91 going into 92.
Savage Roberts Feud was highly enjoyable Summerslam 91 has always been one of my favorites Flair joining WWF Sid joining WWF Bret starting solo career Rockers breakup and HBK starting solo career shortly thereafter 92 Rumble Regarding sihfts.... 89 going to 90 felt like a big shift in presentation/roster 1999-2000 by comparison felt relatively the same between both years. I dont think that shift was really felt until 2002 or so. I thought 1993 also felt like a shift year |
12-02-2020, 12:55 PM | #14 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
SCG Radio returns to look at April to June 1991 in the WWF! In the first part of our look at the quarter, we break down the top feuds in the promotion to look at the tale it tells - Hulk Hogan Vs. Sgt. Slaughter goes up against Ultimate Warrior Vs. Undertaker at the houses, and the results were striking. We talk about the major angles of the period in the main event scene, the WWF loses its deal with NBC, Warrior gets press for being a gay prostitute (allegedly!), and in perhaps the biggest story of the quarter, WCW's Sid Vicious hands in his notice and sets sail for TITAN in hilarious fashion! All the facts, figures and analysis you love, check it out and let us know what you think!
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/9bsf...rt_2A6so9m.mp3 |
12-02-2020, 01:02 PM | #15 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,903
|
Between the Sheets did a Patreon show on Sid in the WWF. The sequence of events from Sid leaving WCW for the WWF is so fucking Sid to a T.
|
12-03-2020, 11:12 AM | #16 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
It's vintage Eudy...and it's also vintage WCW. Letting him out of a valid contract for Christ knows what reason.
|
12-03-2020, 11:25 PM | #17 | |
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
|
|
12-04-2020, 04:49 AM | #18 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
It did the lowest buyrate of any WrestleMania up to that point by far, didn't draw on house shows, got them shit loads of bad press and drew a bad rating on NBC that ended up with them losing the prestigious SNME slot. I'd call that a pretty big fuck-up, death threats or not.
|
12-04-2020, 04:51 AM | #19 |
Posts: 60,919
|
When it comes to the issue of Taker being the hot heel against Warrior, I think a bit more goes into it than that. Not that being a hot heel doesn’t help (it definitely does), but honestly it sounds like it’s just a better program. Warrior is also coming off a really amazing performance against Savage, which may have solidified him in the minds of fans post-underwhelming title run.
Hogan, as you guys pointed out in one of your part 1’s, didn’t feel fresh in the spot. Maybe being the deposed champion actually helped him? Certainly having Earthquake didn’t hurt, but when he gets back in the champion slot, it’s back to the status quo. |
12-04-2020, 12:44 PM | #20 | |
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
Did WWF ratings spike back up in 1992? |
|
12-04-2020, 03:42 PM | #21 | |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
Quote:
The promotion was getting colder, as shown in 1990 for both Hogan, Warrior and the NBC ratings. But when you look at the details, its not as cut and dry as history claims. |
|
12-04-2020, 03:48 PM | #22 | |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
Quote:
|
|
12-04-2020, 05:46 PM | #23 | |
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
|
|
12-04-2020, 07:15 PM | #24 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
As an example, Warrior Vs. Slaughter at the Rumble did a better buyrate than Hogan Vs. Slaughter at Mania.
|
12-04-2020, 11:32 PM | #25 | |
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
Really interesting stuff here regardless. Nice work hb2k. |
|
12-16-2020, 11:03 AM | #26 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
SCG Radio returns this week to talk April to June of 1991 in the World Wrestling Federation! This week, we're walking through everything in the undercard, from Jake Roberts' snake getting squashed and killed by Earthquake, the failed return of Andre The Giant, Bobby Heenan's managing career ends, the often-forgotten Virgilina angle (!), The Mountie and Big Bossman cross paths, IRS debuts, and the tag team scene goes to hell in a handbasket. On top of that, we discuss the first WBF pay-per-view, as well as detail the trial of Dr. George Zahorian on drug trafficking charges, including to WWF wrestlers, one of which was none other than Hulk Hogan. All the facts, figures and analysis you'd expect, check it out and let us know what you think!
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/q5jm...rt_2Bapuo8.mp3 |
06-21-2021, 06:59 AM | #27 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
SCG Radio returns for the first part of our look at July and August 1991 in the WWF! The crazy year continues with the fallout of the Dr. George Zahorian conviction, the media puts the pressure on Vince McMahon, Hulk Hogan tries to quell the flames on Arsenio Hall in horrendous fashion and much, much more. Additionally, we look at the top angles for Summerslam 91 and the departure of the Ultimate Warrior, looking at how everything fell apart and analysing Warrior's run at the top. A ton of fun to relive - check it out and let us know what you think!
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ysn4...rt_3A6xq59.mp3 |
06-21-2021, 07:21 AM | #28 |
Posts: 60,919
|
Glad to hear a return to the series.
|
06-21-2021, 03:48 PM | #29 |
Trickster Demon
Posts: 59,750
|
SummerSlam 91 is one of the all-time great SummerSlams IMO
Bret vs Perfect is a classic |
06-21-2021, 06:50 PM | #30 |
RoBOT Reigns
Posts: 9,619
|
At the time I thought nothing of it. I was a little too young to have memories of Slaughter's first run before he left to do G.I. Joe stuff, and again age wise being at war with Iraq didn't seem like much of anything. I was a Hogan guy more than a Warrior guy, so I was ok with Hogan taking the spot back.
Looking back, that part still seems like the right decision as Warrior spun way out of control. The wrong part was the issue that the angle was getting real death threats, couldn't sell out the LA Colosseum, and was a safety concern for the whole event. Funny enough, Warrior being removed led to him and Savage at Mania which in my opinion was Warriors best match ever. |
06-21-2021, 07:25 PM | #31 |
Posts: 60,919
|
I don’t think the angle got real death threats, but the point I’ve seen made in previous SCG Radios, was that this was the poor taste stuff that gave the media the taste for blood. If Vince is going to go that low for attention, he cannot complain about the attention he gets. To this day, while things in the Attidude era didn’t help, these sorts of scandal might be the catalyst behind wrestling struggling to find much respect.
That and it’s stinkin’ fake fightin’ for babies. When it comes to Warrior, I think the piece of shit he was makes it likely he wasn’t very equipped to be the top guy, but sometimes I wonder if the WWF/E dragging their toes causes a guy’s issues. Rob Van Dam got busted for weed in 2006 and some were like “See! The WWF were right not to push him in 2001!” |
06-22-2021, 02:01 AM | #32 |
Trickster Demon
Posts: 59,750
|
I've got to agree - Warrior vs Savage was his best match.
Savage was such an incredible storyteller in the ring, truly one of the all-time greats in wrestling. |
06-22-2021, 02:22 AM | #33 |
Posts: 60,919
|
On the topic of drawing, I’ve had a lofty theory on it I’ve been pondering for a while: We often look at PPVs, attendance and TV ratings as the gauge by which a draw operates. And when it comes to a territory’s business, those tangible in-the-moment metrics are crucial, don’t get me wrong. But I do wonder just how many people watching today, buying merchandise, subscribing to the Network, etc. are cemented fans for life because of Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, or those memories of Warrior as a kid.
I don’t know how you measure that. I’m not sure if that is to be measured. But lately I’ve been thinking about the overall engagement (yuck) a wrestler encourages people to stick around and spend money over a period of years, even decades. |
08-04-2021, 08:52 AM | #34 |
Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
|
SCG Radio returns for Part 3B of our series talking 1991 in the WWF! This time, we're continuing our look into July and August by analysing Ric Flair's departure from WCW and impending arrival in the WWF, all the insanity that led to it with Jim Herd, as well as evaluating the lead-up to Flair's exit and aftermath. In addition, we're looking at the undercard build to Summerslam 1991 and talking all about the show itself, featuring Bret Hart's IC Title win over Mr. Perfect, the JAILHOUSE MATCH, Virgil's career peak and a great deal more. A ton of fun looking at the TV and news of the period, check it out and let us know what you think! If you don't download it here, it's also available on iTunes, Spotify or Podbean!
https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/tmi6...rt_3B7v8dv.mp3 |