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Old 11-13-2009, 12:50 AM   #601
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I'm done here.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:55 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by LoDownM View Post
Sounds like Kalyx sucks at first person shooters that aren't over hyped garbage like Halo.
burn
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:59 AM   #603
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When I play an FPS, there's certain elements that I believe makes for a genral shooting game in regards to gameplay. These elements can be found in real gun fights - no matter how outlandish a shooter may be (you still need to take cover in Halo).
Because there are no radar jammers or extra armor in real gunfights?



Quote:
There's a sniper housed up in a window, right? He's picking off the other team willy-nilly and he's racking up points. Everything's all good. That is until somebody finds him and coordinates a flank with a teammate to shut him down. Now let's evaluate this event from a CoD game and a respectable game.

- In CoD, this fucker may have a Perk that keeps him invisible from radar even has he shoots his sniper rifle. GAY

- In CoD, even if someone were to get the drop on him, he may have an armor Perk that gives him an extra half-second to retaliate and take out his enemy.

- In CoD, things like flanking and ambushes are complicated by buffers that can change an otherwise expected outcome.
It's not hard to find snipers. Even ones that aren't visible. And I like that there are radar jammers. It forces you to not completely rely on your radar.

There are no armor perks anymore so this is a moot point. And I never thought they were as big of a deal as otherrs did anyway.

What buffers are you talking about? I successfuly flank people all the time. By myself even.



Quote:
Perks make an otherwise great FPS (we had fun without them) into an annoying... joke. And in no way can someone say they had more fun than we did with Perks.
This is a completely ridiculous statement.



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This to me isn't skill, it's Fiesta Mode in Halo. A party feature, not to be taken as seriously as most of the CoD community takes it. I actually respect CoD as a military strategy game, but NOT with Perks on. Than it's Smash Bros.
Completely disagree. I think COD would still be fun without perks, but it wouldn't be played as tactical. At least not by most people. I think most would just be running around willy nilly looking for the nearest dot on the radar.

Perks make you think about every action you take. They force you to anticipate your opponent's actions, and devise ways of countering them. Good cod's have no wasted movement.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:30 AM   #604
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If one more person on my team uses a UAV, when the other team has already put up a counter uav, I'm gonna scream.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:32 AM   #605
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Except we weren't running around all willy nilly looking for dots on a radar.

Like I said, I'm done. Enjoy the game.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:34 AM   #606
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And I said most people. Not all.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:46 AM   #607
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Matter fact, fuck it:

- All this shit about how I don't like Perks because I'm not good at it? Fuck off. I've been managing buffers since before some of you bought your own videogames. That I wouldn't be able to manage special buffers in an FPS is absurd, but for reason I couldn't demonstrate here without a time machine. That also records video. Do not make this about my skill. It's off subject and it's false as fuck anyway.
- Perks makes a perfectly fine shooting game like MW2 more tactical the way Soulcalibur 4's Special Vs. Mode is more tactical with buffer items. In that it forces you to use something lest you fall victim to it when others use it. This isn't tactics, it's an exploitation arms race. Yeah, Special Mode on Soulcalibur sucks ass too.
- It's telling that with a choice to play the game with or without Perks, where the latter has you relying on your own instincts/planning/execution - you guys choose buffers that increase chance of success. It falls in line with the Playing To Win philosophy - coined by Street Fighter champ David Sirlin - who advocates the use of exploits and glitches to win. And an exploit is an exploit whether it's an official feature or not.

This shit would, and maybe should, lead to me facing off with some of you chaps on both terms. But to what end? I mean... I've played CoD4 with Perks and fared well. I 'got it', I just didn't agree with the design philosophy. I got shit for it back then from you guys and here we are again.

So if your conclusion is "Kalyx sucks at MW2", prove it. Betting you can't, which would lead to me being called a game/FPS-freak/nerd. And if I lose, in either style of play, I'd get shit. But really, don't say I suck without watching me play or playing me. Get that shit outta here.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:47 AM   #608
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And I said most people. Not all.
Oh.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:49 AM   #609
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Yeah, ftr I never brought up your skill at all.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:57 AM   #610
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Yeah, and you said yourself that you fare well, and that saying you suck is bullshit.

Fact is good fps players will always do better than bad fps players. Even if the bad player has a stacked loadout against a good player without any good perks. None of them effect the game enough to downplay actual skill. They just offer different strategies, and ways of playing the game.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:50 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
When I play an FPS, there's certain elements that I believe makes for a genral shooting game in regards to gameplay. These elements can be found in real gun fights - no matter how outlandish a shooter may be (you still need to take cover in Halo).

Here comes CoD with Perks that negate these fundamentals.
How do perks negate fundamentals? Fundamental of a shooting game is...shooting. Not one perks negates this.

Quote:
I will say one, and only one, scenario to elaborate my issues with this feature:

There's a sniper housed up in a window, right? He's picking off the other team willy-nilly and he's racking up points. Everything's all good. That is until somebody finds him and coordinates a flank with a teammate to shut him down. Now let's evaluate this event from a CoD game and a respectable game.

- In CoD, this fucker may have a Perk that keeps him invisible from radar even has he shoots his sniper rifle. GAY
To be fair, this didn't happen till MW2, and you seem to have formulated this argument beginning with MW1. Besides, there's still muzzle flare, kill cam, and flat out visual confirmation that lets you know he's there.

Quote:
- In CoD, even if someone were to get the drop on him, he may have an armor Perk that gives him an extra half-second to retaliate and take out his enemy.
If your aim is better than his, it doesn't matter. It's about the player, not the perks. I'll take a shit player with Juggernaut (gone from MW2, incidentally), over an excellent player with no perks.

Quote:
- In CoD, things like flanking and ambushes are complicated by buffers that can change an otherwise expected outcome.
I feel you on this. It's like when I see a Spiny in a Mario game. I see a turtle like thing walking on the ground, and my default action is to jump on it. But those fuckers have that spine shell buffer, and just kill me. WHAT TO THEY EXPECT ME TO DO, SLIGHTLY ALTER MY PLAY STYLE?!?!?!

And Jesus man, of course it changes outcomes. It's like if I was sneaking up on a guy and he turned and killed me with his rifle? WTF? I was expecting to kill him and he goes and changes that? FUCK INFINITY WARD AND THEIR WEAPON BULLSHIT.

Quote:
So what does Infinity Ward do? They make counter-Perks. All this does if create that exploitation arms race I spoke about - when it could be solved by NOT. HAVING. PERKS.
This like saying Street Fighter shouldn't have special moves. Why can't everyone just use kicks and punches? But no, these fucking Fireballs come along that allow you to attack from across the screen! A fireball, of all things! Like you'd ever see that in a real fight. So they put in jumping to counter that, but then Shoryukens counter jump ins, and then...EXPLOITATION ARMS RACE!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Perks make an otherwise great FPS (we had fun without them) into an annoying... joke. And in no way can someone say they had more fun than we did with Perks. That is of course if we were arguing fun. We're talking about game balance and elements that betray the underlying engine of a certain genre.
Except it is balanced. Yeah, snipers can be silenced and radar invisible, but the silencers do piddly damage. Unless you're capable of a head shot every time (and even then with a silencer on I don't believe it's a sure one shot kill), you're left having to take 2 or 3 shots from a distance with a relatively high recoil rifle. I was ready to kill when I got a silencer for my Intervention, but I took it off after one match where I couldn't even kill in 2 shots. Infinity Ward knows what they are doing. There's nothing in this game I can think of that breaks the balance.

As for the underlying engine bit, come on. Games are supposed to be innovative. If the underlying engine is always the same, what's the point in playing different games?

Quote:
It's like Madden Cards that do silly shit like increase fumbles and make certain players faster or stronger. From what I know the Madden community don't like that shit. And I feel like Perks in CoD make the game into a joke, riddled with 'chance' outcomes like, "I hope he doesn't have armor" or "I hope we can find this guy since he's not on radar."
It's not chance. Skill. Again, to Street Fighter for an example. It's like playing someone and saying "Man I hope this guy doesn't know any combos".

Quote:
This to me isn't skill, it's Fiesta Mode in Halo. A party feature, not to be taken as seriously as most of the CoD community takes it. I actually respect CoD as a military strategy game, but NOT with Perks on. Than it's Smash Bros.
It's not a military strategy game. It's a First Person Shooter.
Last edited by Blitz; 11-13-2009 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:49 AM   #612
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Yeah I finally got heartbeat sensor with silencer thanks to Bling, Coldblooded, and Ninja, Hardcore is now fun.

Also, I saw some dude at level 70 already.

WTF, did he play it 3 days straight since midnight launch?
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:07 AM   #613
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I had fun with it, and I only have a silencer for my rpd.

Although s&d s a little too slow and methodical for my taste.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:15 AM   #614
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They need Hardcore Free For All.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:15 AM   #615
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Or other hardcore objective games without the whole no respwn thing.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:17 AM   #616
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Yeah I finally got heartbeat sensor with silencer thanks to Bling, Coldblooded, and Ninja, Hardcore is now fun.

Also, I saw some dude at level 70 already.

WTF, did he play it 3 days straight since midnight launch?
I looked at the leader board around 8pm Tuesday and there was 5 people at 70 already.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:07 AM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Matter fact, fuck it:

- All this shit about how I don't like Perks because I'm not good at it? Fuck off. I've been managing buffers since before some of you bought your own videogames. That I wouldn't be able to manage special buffers in an FPS is absurd, but for reason I couldn't demonstrate here without a time machine. That also records video. Do not make this about my skill. It's off subject and it's false as fuck anyway.
- Perks makes a perfectly fine shooting game like MW2 more tactical the way Soulcalibur 4's Special Vs. Mode is more tactical with buffer items. In that it forces you to use something lest you fall victim to it when others use it. This isn't tactics, it's an exploitation arms race. Yeah, Special Mode on Soulcalibur sucks ass too.
- It's telling that with a choice to play the game with or without Perks, where the latter has you relying on your own instincts/planning/execution - you guys choose buffers that increase chance of success. It falls in line with the Playing To Win philosophy - coined by Street Fighter champ David Sirlin - who advocates the use of exploits and glitches to win. And an exploit is an exploit whether it's an official feature or not.

This shit would, and maybe should, lead to me facing off with some of you chaps on both terms. But to what end? I mean... I've played CoD4 with Perks and fared well. I 'got it', I just didn't agree with the design philosophy. I got shit for it back then from you guys and here we are again.

So if your conclusion is "Kalyx sucks at MW2", prove it. Betting you can't, which would lead to me being called a game/FPS-freak/nerd. And if I lose, in either style of play, I'd get shit. But really, don't say I suck without watching me play or playing me. Get that shit outta here.
My conclusion is certainly not Kaylx sucks at MW2.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:56 AM   #618
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when i looked last night, guy on my list already put 1 day 6 hours into it. fuck guy come on take a breath
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:53 AM   #619
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Played a bit of online action last night and today. Not very good at it, when I see someone I start firing all over the place and they just turn and nail me in the head. I could get obsessed with getting good at it like I did with Killzone 2 for a while earlier this year.

Also similarly to Killzone 2 I might play the single player for about half an hour then forget about it.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:08 AM   #620
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wow the prison mission was awesome. the extraction was pretty cool. the shower looked a lot like that part from the rock.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:16 AM   #621
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Finished the campaign on Veteran last night and all I gotta say is, fuck driving boats. Great story though. Also had no idea Lance Henrikson was the voice of Shepard. Now to work on the pain in the ass that is SpecOps. I'm looking for a co-op partner if anyone is intrested?
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:17 AM   #622
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wow the prison mission was awesome. the extraction was pretty cool. the shower looked a lot like that part from the rock.
Ah yea, the gulag was fun as shit. Totally didn't expect the end of that level though.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:51 AM   #623
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Kalyx, I was planning on making different game modes for that tourney.

If I do like 1 month of a "No Perks" kind of mode, would you be in?
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:12 AM   #624
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Some bastard dropped a nuke when I was playing it earlier. Game over. Fuck that.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:09 PM   #625
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Finished off campaign but have yet to get a game online. anyone else having difficulties connecting?
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:27 PM   #626
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knife to the eye
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:37 PM   #627
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knife to the eye
I take it you just finished the campaign?
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:47 PM   #628
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yah
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:48 PM   #629
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Finished off campaign but have yet to get a game online. anyone else having difficulties connecting?
I did when I first got it. Then I noticed on the multiplayer menu that the NAT was set to strict which it usually isn't. So I ran a test on my connection in network settings of the dashboard, and when I started up the game again it said my NAT was set to open. And I havn't had a problem connecting since.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:54 PM   #630
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I'm still on Act 2 of campaign. Playing on regular. I'm stretching it out. After I beat it I'll try it on Hardened and then the highest level.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:01 PM   #631
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yah
Wasn't that boat section a real bitch and a half?
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:10 PM   #632
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pit boss baby
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:11 PM   #633
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Wasn't that boat section a real bitch and a half?
yah
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:12 PM   #634
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So is the higher levels of Spec Ops pretty crazy? I only unlocked Bravo and haven't tried it yet.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:18 PM   #635
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So is the higher levels of Spec Ops pretty crazy? I only unlocked Bravo and haven't tried it yet.
Couldn't tell you. I've only played the first one as every other one requires a 2nd person and everyone on my friends list only wants to play S&D. They don't even care about the campaign.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:29 PM   #636
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Yeah, I've unlocked bravo and charlie and they are both really fun.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:47 PM   #637
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I'm going down to my folks tomorrow and my nephew is going to be there with his console and this. My folks don't have internet, and there is no system link in Special Ops, only split screen. That sucks.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:58 PM   #638
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Kalyx, I was planning on making different game modes for that tourney.

If I do like 1 month of a "No Perks" kind of mode, would you be in?
Me and Khuntri would be down for that, still on Silver though. Thanks for the consideration.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:08 PM   #639
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Replies in red.

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How do perks negate fundamentals? Fundamental of a shooting game is...shooting. Not one perks negates this.

This alone says a lot about what you think of gunfights, but I'll humor you.

To be fair, this didn't happen till MW2, and you seem to have formulated this argument beginning with MW1. Besides, there's still muzzle flare, kill cam, and flat out visual confirmation that lets you know he's there.

Okay.

If your aim is better than his, it doesn't matter. It's about the player, not the perks. I'll take a shit player with Juggernaut (gone from MW2, incidentally), over an excellent player with no perks.

So let's take two players of equal skill, one has Juggy the other does not? What will happen in their encounter?

I feel you on this. It's like when I see a Spiny in a Mario game. I see a turtle like thing walking on the ground, and my default action is to jump on it. But those fuckers have that spine shell buffer, and just kill me. WHAT TO THEY EXPECT ME TO DO, SLIGHTLY ALTER MY PLAY STYLE?!?!?!

Not the same.

And Jesus man, of course it changes outcomes. It's like if I was sneaking up on a guy and he turned and killed me with his rifle? WTF? I was expecting to kill him and he goes and changes that? FUCK INFINITY WARD AND THEIR WEAPON BULLSHIT.

Don't even know what you're getting at here. You think I'm talking about getting shot?

This like saying Street Fighter shouldn't have special moves. Why can't everyone just use kicks and punches? But no, these fucking Fireballs come along that allow you to attack from across the screen! A fireball, of all things! Like you'd ever see that in a real fight. So they put in jumping to counter that, but then Shoryukens counter jump ins, and then...EXPLOITATION ARMS RACE!!!!!!!!!!

Not the same. Keep in mind I already gave you a fighting game with a mode that compares to CoD's Perk system. Stay on point.

Except it is balanced. Yeah, snipers can be silenced and radar invisible, but the silencers do piddly damage. Unless you're capable of a head shot every time (and even then with a silencer on I don't believe it's a sure one shot kill), you're left having to take 2 or 3 shots from a distance with a relatively high recoil rifle. I was ready to kill when I got a silencer for my Intervention, but I took it off after one match where I couldn't even kill in 2 shots. Infinity Ward knows what they are doing. There's nothing in this game I can think of that breaks the balance.

Okay.

As for the underlying engine bit, come on. Games are supposed to be innovative. If the underlying engine is always the same, what's the point in playing different games?

Strawman; I respect individual engines.

It's not chance. Skill. Again, to Street Fighter for an example. It's like playing someone and saying "Man I hope this guy doesn't know any combos".

Again, not the same. Also, combos are based on execution not buffers. ...And what type of pussy would hope that anyway.

It's not a military strategy game. It's a First Person Shooter.

Semantics, call it what you will. Perks hurt an otherwise decent game.
Anyway, you guys may see me online but I'm not 'online' - just playing Spec-Ops or offline multiplayer.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:00 PM   #640
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Spec-Ops is the soul of this game. Love it much. Unlocked Charlie just now. Doing everything on Veteran. Pretty tough.
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