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Old 05-17-2018, 04:26 AM   #241
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Right now their personalities would put them so far ahead of almost everyone else it isn't funny.
True. Who would've thought back then that WWE would be even worse some 9 years later?
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:15 AM   #242
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I try to think back to a time where I've been happy to be a fan, haha. Even back in my Val Venis-obsessed days, my enjoyment of his selling on Heat was getting me through some dark times, haha.

I remember being fond of 2008. Maybe not the entire year, but WrestleMania that year stands out, and the random pushes for CM Punk, William Regal and Brian Kendrick felt good -- even if two of the three got in the way of theirs.

The Shield kicked ass in 2013 and 2014, but it never felt like the whole product was up to them and Daniel Bryan. I feel a bit spoiled whinging about that though. But it's been a long time since wrestling has been "good."
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:20 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.V.W. View Post
It is. Are you partial to The Revival?
I like them as a team. They have clearly watched tape and are trying to implement psychology into what they do, which is automatically appreciated. I love the way Dawson takes the lead and Wilder basically plays the spoiler. It's a great dynamic in a world where tag team partners are interchangeable and everyone does the same thing.

A problem facing them is their size. Neither guy is a heavyweight, to my knowledge, which means that them working as bad-ass ring generals kind of lacks...panache. When they're out there against guys like Gargano & Ciampa it doesn't matter so much, but I'm not sure how easily I buy them working heel against bigger dudes, you know?

I've seen some things on here about their personality. I like what they're doing. They're supposed to be dry. Dawson can talk well enough when he needs to. If you plug them in as the antithesis to a team with personality, it would work. The problem is if Vince sees them and casts them as "boring guys" in his mind.

They're a team you book with a purpose. You either have babies you want them fuck up, or you bring in babies for them to fuck up. When they're just plugging in to different tag team matches with each and every tag team, I worry that they will lose their charm.

I like them, but I worry for them, and I don't know if the WWE is going to be able to implement them the way I'd like to see them implemented. But given they don't like to fire people, I can see them having jobs for a long time, and at least being heel lackeys to someone.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:23 AM   #244
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I loved Cryme Tyme. They were outstanding for what they were.
That's pretty racist.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:02 AM   #245
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The Revival are/were at their best when they can work long-form matches packed with psychology and brilliant storytelling. They were always going to be fucked on the main roster where they're expected to get their shit in in five minutes or less.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:56 PM   #246
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That's pretty racist.
That's pretty funny.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:57 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
The Revival are/were at their best when they can work long-form matches packed with psychology and brilliant storytelling. They were always going to be fucked on the main roster where they're expected to get their shit in in five minutes or less.
It's weird, because I remember there being trepidation about them getting called up, but I feel like hopes are always high for some stupid reason.
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Old 05-22-2018, 05:51 PM   #248
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Wonder how much NBC now really regrets giving WWE $300+ million per year for RAW considering this week's episode set the record for least viewed of the year and since June 2017.

Last week's taped UK episode did better than this week's live episode which almost never happens for RAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPWW Frontpage
Monday’s Raw drew an average of 2,668,000 viewers on USA Network, down from last week’s 2,741,000 viewers. This was the lowest viewed episode of 2018 and the lowest viewed episode since the June 12, 2017 episode which drew 2,542,000 viewers ...

This time last year, the May 23, 2017 Raw drew 2,615,000 viewers. The May 23, 2016 Raw drew 3,268,000 viewers.

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,792,000
9PM: 2,767,000
10PM: 2,447,000
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Old 05-22-2018, 05:57 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat
Wonder how much NBC now really regrets giving WWE $300+ million per year for RAW considering this week's episode set the record for least viewed of the year and since June 2017.

Last week's taped UK episode did better than this week's live episode which almost never happens for RAW.
Probably not much! I'm sure they've been keeping up w/ the numbers prior to the deal.
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:50 PM   #250
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All tv numbers are trending down. What would they put in that time slot thats going to get 2.5 million viewers?
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:10 PM   #251
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X rated suits tv show.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:12 PM   #252
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Nothing for the time being due to USA Network being terrible at creating new big hit shows.

The real problem is WWE's numbers are actually trending lower percentage wise than the yearly average across tv which is why it seems insane NBC is paying that much for RAW going forward. UFC being on the market the same time as the WWE ending being the best thing to happen to the WWE since they got to take advantage of the bidding war for UFC.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:58 PM   #253
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Quote:
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All tv numbers are trending down. What would they put in that time slot thats going to get 2.5 million viewers?
Law & Order: Criminal Intent reruns.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:04 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Nothing for the time being due to USA Network being terrible at creating new big hit shows.

The real problem is WWE's numbers are actually trending lower percentage wise than the yearly average across tv which is why it seems insane NBC is paying that much for RAW going forward. UFC being on the market the same time as the WWE ending being the best thing to happen to the WWE since they got to take advantage of the bidding war for UFC.
Yeah, I'm sure I've read that the WWE is decreasing a rate faster than television in general. The deal makes sense for USA, because they need something, but I just get hung up on that number. The competition from FOX makes sense as a haggling tool in the WWE's favor, but I'm not sure that the television bubble is just going to keep increasing and increasing for WWE.

The deal includes the reality shows, which do well. It wouldn't surprise me if there are more on the way too. They've got that Miz one coming out. It wouldn't surprise me if Rusev & Lana get one at some point. I mean, they effectively cancelled SmackDown with this deal too. It's a very weird deal that makes sense when you put into the perspective that NBC Universal wants to keep them and has to make a competitive offer with FOX that is scared they are going to lose UFC.

Vince is more lucky than good in this scenario, although I'm sure he would never call it that.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:25 PM   #255
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FOX is also selling off all of their in-house studios as part of the rumored Disney deal so it makes sense they splurged on Smackdown. Need the show and WWE in general to help fill in the gap for live content going forward.

Funny thing is FOX already has a show that performs a lot better and likely way cheaper at the Friday spot Smackdown is going to take. Only downside is the cooking contest show isn't on every week unlike Smackdown.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:37 PM   #256
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It's a weird time in television.
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:54 AM   #257
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I'm sure there's no shortage of reality competition ideas they could come up with that would be cheaper to produce and pull better ratings than Smackdown.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:45 PM   #258
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SD hit it's lowest rating since October 2017. Really too bad since the show was great this week.


Quote:

2.1 million viewers

This is down 4.5% from last week's 2.3 million viewers for the taped show from London and is the lowest blue brand viewership of 2018. This is the lowest SmackDown viewership since the Halloween 2017 episode, which drew 2.1 million viewers.

credit - wrestlinginc.com

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Old 05-23-2018, 07:49 PM   #259
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Wait so the pretaped out performed the live show? Ouch
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:23 AM   #260
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Quote:
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I'm sure there's no shortage of reality competition ideas they could come up with that would be cheaper to produce and pull better ratings than Smackdown.
America's Next Toilet Cat would surely be a bigger star than even heel Shinsuke Nakamura.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM   #261
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This week's RAW almost set the record for least watched episode since the end of the Attitude Era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
In what shouldn't be a surprise, Monday's Raw did the second lowest number of viewers in the modern history of the show, doing 2.49 million going against major competition from the NBA and NHL.

The only episode in modern history to do fewer viewers was in 2016, a show that went head-to-head with the Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton debate. That episode averaged 2.48 million viewers.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:06 PM   #262
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Shady reporting though...

Raw only underperformed against the NBA and for love and hip hop. Love and hip hop seems to be a hit. But ultimately it essentially is 3rd hottest show on tvs 2nd biggest night.

But that snippet is some doom and gloom.

Just shows you how easy it is to use facts to shap a dishonest narritive
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:26 PM   #263
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It has been setting a few dubious records and marks since Mania ended which should be a bit concerning. Even in terms of pace, this yea's post-Mania season is dropping faster than last year's by about 2-3 weeks. Need to check the numbers but think the 3rd hour is well on pace to hit a sub-2 million number faster than it ever did before.

PWI's report on this week's number did the comparison with last year's Memorial Day and the drop was tiny (2k) compared to this year's drop (174k).
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:39 PM   #264
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Those trends are comparable for all television. All of it. TV is dying. The WWE is one of the few things doing well.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:01 PM   #265
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Shady reporting though...

Raw only underperformed against the NBA and for love and hip hop. Love and hip hop seems to be a hit. But ultimately it essentially is 3rd hottest show on tvs 2nd biggest night.

But that snippet is some doom and gloom.

Just shows you how easy it is to use facts to shap a dishonest narritive
100% agree. Raw always gets lower ratings on Holidays, and it was against a game 7 NBA Playoff game, plus the NFL Stanley Cup. Raw being down 230,000 people from last week is nothing all things considering.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:07 PM   #266
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Thing is is its a perspective issue. Lower doesnt mean low and it certainly doesnt mean bad. These are strong ratings in 2018. TV markets are shrinking. Its legitimately having its death rattle. Its as dead as radio.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:08 PM   #267
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Those trends are comparable for all television. All of it. TV is dying. The WWE is one of the few things doing well.
Also 100% correct. TV ratings are such an old way to gauge success. Networks like Fox are dumb enough to cancel a show like Last Man on Earth that only gets a 4 rating, so they cancel it.

They literally don't factor in all the whole picture stuff like if it has great DVR numbers, or a bunch of streaming views on Hulu, which Fox partly owns, making it more idiotic that they still go by the old ratings to make those decisions.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:09 PM   #268
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If you think the show is performing poorly and you followed the universal and fox deals you have an outstandingly poor ability to extrapolate information for yourself. The sheets are written by morons.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:12 PM   #269
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Or are we actually saying that dave meltzer and friends have a better handle on the tv market than nbc and fox
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:34 PM   #270
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Quote:
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Thing is is its a perspective issue. Lower doesnt mean low and it certainly doesnt mean bad. These are strong ratings in 2018. TV markets are shrinking. Its legitimately having its death rattle. Its as dead as radio.
This is true, but then there are other perspectives to consider. It's basically where it places in the night that is most important right now, and how that affects advertising revenue. Raw could retain the same amount of viewers, but if more people were watching 9 other things (and that's not going to happen with the same amount of viewers), then it'd be a lot less valuable. Then you've got to consider how much money they are paying for TV rights versus production on other shows. How much are those 3 million pairs of eyeballs worth?

At the end of the day, I actually do question whether or not this is the soundest plan by NBC or Fox. Just because with those trends going down, and they are going down faster than most other television seems to be, from what I can detect anyway, then at some point you have to question whether or not it is worth it for this programming. Where is the magic line where you start getting buyers' remorse, because death rattle or not (and it is a death rattle), then where do you stop spending much on so few, even if they are a lot comparatively?
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:34 PM   #271
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Or are we actually saying that dave meltzer and friends have a better handle on the tv market than nbc and fox
Hmm, well, that could be a wash...
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:31 AM   #272
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Id like to see some data that suggests their downward trend is in anyway worse than the average.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:36 AM   #273
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And yes at some point advertisers are going to regret their purchase but its likely to not be on the 3rd highest veiwed show in prime time on mondays.

Inevitably the add dollars will shrink with the shrinking market and when that happens tv products will get lower budget in turm.

Thats inevitable on the road to obsolescence. We are arent there yet. And raw is FAR safer than the bulk of other shows.

People in television recognize this. People who cover television recgonize this. People who cover market trends recognize this. Wrestling "journalists" dont. Why in the fuck is meltzer being entertained with this narritive?

He's talking out of his ass.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:43 AM   #274
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To your credit i do anticipate smackdown to fail on fox. The friday time slot will kill it. On a better night and i think it would have a ling life. But fox fridays are and always have been a death slot and in 2018 its worse than ever.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:44 AM   #275
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The mistep is the time slot though and nothing else. The install base is easily among the largest on tv
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:16 AM   #276
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Id like to see some data that suggests their downward trend is in anyway worse than the average.
I'm sure I've read that somewhere. The numbers I can find from a few years ago says 8-10%, and I was under the belief the WWE was going down more than that on a yearly basis. But I just checked and apparently WWE is only losing 5%, but that was in millions of viewers, which is a mixed metric.

They dropped 10.5% for 2015's average versus 2014 and 14.4% for 2016. I'm not sure what the average rating was for 2017. Ratings seem to be hold steady for 2018 though, even though viewership is dropping.

So it's not appreciably outside the realms of the death of television, I guess. If they were going down faster than TV in general, they seem to have stopped falling so fast. And I do think television is catching up, generally speaking.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:48 AM   #277
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Quickest I could find compares RAW with the major cable networks in regards to viewership and prime-time.

According to Forbes, WWE's drop for RAW in 2016-2017 was 17.6% for the 1st half the year (Jan-June 2016, Jan-June 2017). Last year it was around 9.6% overall based on some quick math. Major cable networks averaged around an 8% drop overall last year with FOX and NFL contributing a lot to the hit.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alfredk.../#68e6c89577a0

https://www.thewrap.com/broadcast-tv...bs-abc-fox-cw/

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/medi...rks/index.html

http://www.wrestling-online.com/wwe/...t-raw-ratings/
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:49 PM   #278
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credit - wrestlinginc


Quote:

This week's WWE SmackDown, featuring Samoa Joe defeating Big Cass and Daniel Bryan in the Triple Threat main event, drew 2.195 million viewers. This is the exact same as last week's 2.195 million viewers, which was the lowest SmackDown viewership since the Halloween 2017 episode.
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Old 06-05-2018, 05:46 PM   #279
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Not good ratings news for RAW , up slightly from last week's new low of 2.47 mil viewers, this week 2.52 mil viewers

-wrestlinginc
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Old 06-06-2018, 02:12 AM   #280
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USA Network is basically paying $120 per viewer at this point.
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