5 years ago today.....
 

Chris Benoit.

:'(

Hard to believe it has been 5 years.....

That's so weird.

I was watching his theme earlier and i forget how cool it was.

That guy took wayyyyy too many bumps in the ring.. it's kind of sad..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6g4D4dStmY

I know it wouldn't be right given the final curtain that was given, but WWE should come to terms with the fact that he did exist in the history books.

Wasn't a huge fan of him as a main eventer. Awesome fighting for the IC/US Title though. Guys like him were made to steal the show from the upper-midcard but be boring as hell if they get overpushed.

Also, not really a fan of the whole murder thing.

Ehhh. Fuck him. He killed his family.

Not trying to flame or be a troll. He was a great wrestler, but his history does not deserve to be celebrated.

Dunno, I still believe he wasn't 'himself' when he killed his family. What he did was the absolute worst, but I like to remember him by his career up to then. We're all entitled to our own opinions on it though, and I hope this thread doesn't turn into a massive flame/troll war.

I go back and forth on this. Yes, he killed his family - an unforgivable, despicable, unthinkable, inhuman act.

But knowing what we know about brain injuries that we didn't know (but suspected) half a decade ago, I now actually wonder whether I can still hold a grudge against him knowing that it wasn't really "him" doing it. His body committed those vile acts, but his mind had deserted him.

It's a very difficult position to be in as someone who was a huge fan of his work, because I want him to be recognized for his accomplishments, but he'll probably also carry that "asterisk" forever.

Yeah, what loopy said.

Yeah, look at what happened to junior seau.

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Chris Benoit: The TPWW thread

That brings back some pretty bad memories.

I disagree with this. One thing shouldn't have bearing on the other.

For example, say what you want about OJ, but it doesn't erase his history of being a great football player. Same case here.

20+ years of wrestling history isn't negated simply because of one deplorable act at the end of his life.

This, of course, doesn't mean it's excusable. By the way, it feels silly that everyone always needs to preface this point so they don't get crapped all over... like we are excusing the murder part. Not the case. Just saying the murder didn't go back and change the fact that he had a legendary best of 7 with Booker T in WCW, or had some damn classic matches in WWE, or more or less put MVP on the map, or even help the idea that "vanilla midget" mat wrestlers can be believable world champions instead of being exclusively 6'6" power move "hosses".

It would be kind of like if we all found out that former President Ronald Reagan became a serial rapist near the end of his days. Would we then destroy all evidence of his movies, and his political career all the way through his presidency because we found this out? Would we have no 40th president... just skip right from Carter to Bush Sr. with 8 years unaccounted for?

Again, one thing has nothing to do with the other. I was actually a Benoit fan. Doesn't make me "pro-murderer" because he wasn't one at the time. Doesn't suddenly make his matches with Angle or Jericho less good in hindsight. Doesn't stop him from being over, selling merch, and being a highly touted worker. The only thing it truly does is make it sad and haunting to know what he will eventually end up doing later; what's on the horizon for him and his family.

He may have killed his family, but watching Mania 20 gives me goosebumps everytime..... same goes for the WWE produced tribute that aired the night after.....

Benoit's theme song used to give me goosebumps every time I listened to it from the memory of WrestleMania XX. Don't think I've listened to the song since, but I'm sure the goosebumps would be gone.

RIP Nancy and Daniel.

I agree with the whole "one thing doesn't have to do with the other thing". The difference is while you might say "Yeah he murdered his wife and kid... but fuck he was a great wrestler" I would say "Yeah he was a great wrestler... but fuck him for murdering his wife and kid."

That part kinda outshines the wrestling part. I can acknowledge that he was a great wrestler. If he was a great plumber, I'd acknowledge he was a great plumber. But in the end, the most notable thing to me is "He was a murderer". And because of that, I'm with Triple Naitch on the fact that his life doesn't deserve to be celebrated. Being good at his occupation suddenly doesn't matter.

I actually can't really watch Benoit matches anymore. My mind instantly goes to "Fuck this murderer". But that's more of just a personal "weirdness" I get watching them.

Maybe I should try watching some of his heel matches and see if my hatred makes him losing to a face while the crowd cheers more enjoyable. Hmm...

this promo is still one of my favorites

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Again, not defending him for murdering his wife and kids.

Takes the luster off what he did in the ring, but it doesn't completely evaporate it from the face of time and history either.

Considering his brain was jello....

What flavor?

I still like to know how he was able to fool WWE that there wasn't a huge problem brewing. How he was able to fake being normal awhile the CTE was scrambling his mind to the point in which it snapped.

I don't think people should blame Benoit for what he did, but the choices he made that brought it about.

I remember hearing reports from back in the day that they wanted him to stop using the headbutt and the german suplexes after his neck injury. I feel that his problems really stemmed from the fact that he chose the wrong wrestler to emulate in his career: the Dynamite Kid.

This is why I cringe every time Daniel Bryan does the diving headbutt and am baffled WWE still allows it.

In a sad way, if what happened with Benoit hadn't of happened, I don't believe WWE would have the wellness policy it has today. Not that it's close to perfect, but the fact it took a murder-suicide for Vince to looks at things just seems wrong.

Jerry Sandusky, OJ Simpson, Chris Benoit.

All three belong in the same sentence.

I did enjoy Chris' work when he wrestled though.

wrong.

Take Sandusky out of there he's lower than those two.

I think raping young boys is far worse than killing.

inb4 people debating about which is worse

I'd like to say for the record I now regret not voting for St. Jimmy for King of the Wrestling Forum, but I didn't vote for RP either.

I also like how my question was moved, but the suggestion of making a murder suicide into a comedy storyline was left intact.

Didn't they make an episode of the Shield based on it?

That Wrestlemania triple-threat is my favourite match of all time. As a long-time Benoit fan since 1994 (he's still one of my favourites today, based obviously on his in-ring work), I had such a huge emotional investment in that match, I had a tear in my watching him and Eddie hug with their titles. Absolutely mind-blowing that that happened eight years ago!!! Still feels 'new' to me.

I remember the day this happened, I came home from my night shift and had a text from a mate telling me "Benoit has been murdered", and my heart literally skipped a beat. Was planning on going to bed, but ended up on the internet for like, three hours or something, just reading different reports, speculation and TPWW posts. Was probably the most surreal thing to ever occur in the world of pro wrestling, and I really wish it didn't. :(

What loopy said.

I think this, after losing Eddie as well is what turned me off wrestling. It got too "real"

Didn't particularly enjoy him as a wrestler anyway, nevermind as a killer. There's much better main event murderers out there.

Who?

lol

Chris Benoit Tribute

Only took 17 days. Quite impressed.

Page 11 of the wrestling forum thread, a theory emerges that Vince McMahon could have done it because Benoit never showed up for the ECW Title match.

My thoughts too. I empathise that his mind was practically mush by that point, and that it may not have been 'him' in those final days, but he should always be accountable for what he did, regardless of what reasoning there was behind it.

That was brought in around early 2006, it was introduced 2 or 3 months after Eddie Guerrero's death.

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Sullivan killed them all, Would't doubt it

I know. Put Sandusky along with all those corrupt church pastors that rape their alter boys.

He committed suicide because he was sent to ECW right?

Watching that whole Raw tribute show right now.

Yeah pretty much what CSL said, and I also remember a post by someone in some other Benoit thread that compared him to any other profession in the world. I think the example used was a banker. Some guy could be the greatest banker in the world but then he goes and offs his wife and kid, nobody cares about his banking ability, just the fact he was a nutjob who went and killed people. This shouldn't be any different, just because this guys job was to entertain people.

Although I'm saying that as well because he pretty rarely entertained me anyway. Always found him to be one of the least interesting and most boring wrestlers around.

watching the Benoit Tribute RAW while working. It is harder to watch than the initial first time.

1. Michael Cole talking about how a man is measured by his kids and how great of a dad he is....Brutal.
2. My heart goes out to all the wrestlers kissing his ass and pouring their hearts out.....Again Brutal.

Read about it but need to see it.

If Sixx ever comes back, maybe we can send him to go piss on his grave.

CSL, what did London and Kendrick say about Benoit?

I used to be such a big fan of Benoit, but there really is no excuse for what he did.

we lost sixx AND xero? wow.

alot of people are using the word "CHILDREN" when talking about Chris in this video...Did he have more than 1 or are they just using the term as a general?

they liked/respected him a lot but kind of indicated they weren't too surprised, that he was super super intense and a bit weird and threatening etc

yah, he had more than 1 kid

The guy's in ring work should be studied by anybody trying to become a wrestler, but fuck him.

I believed he had two from a previous relationship, they were much older.....

Ya he had another boy and a girl.

does anyone have a link to the chris benoit tribute episode

oh maybe that's why i couldn't find it because i was looking for a 1 hour vid and not a couple of segments. Thanks anyway.:cool:

Weird I have never heard a peep from the other Benoit kids. Did I miss it or have their privacy actually been respected?

I didn't realise you had so much more knowledge on brain injuries than the rest of us, thanks for clearing this up, and I'm sure we'll all change our point of view on things from now.

Seriously though, not trying to start a flame war with you, so please don't even go there, but that is merely your opinion (which you are entitled to) and not fact. Nobody here tried to force the other reasoning on anybody, and I know you know the 'buisness' better than the rest of us apparently, but it doesn't make yours right no matter how firmly you put it across.

Fact of the matter is head and brain injuries can fuck people up badly to the point where they have no idea what they're doing, and can seem quite rational. What he did was the absolute shit, but you can't avoid that point simply because you either don't, or don't want to accept that as fact.

I also know that I have no personal info on Benoit or his health when it happened, but the evidence is all there to point to brain trauma.

Ditto.

Mania XX was probably the most emotionally invested I have ever been in a match and thinking back about it gives me good memories...then the inevitable "Guy is a murderer" thought pops up.

Can't watch a Benoit match without that fact popping into my head. Maybe it's watching him deliver/miss the Diving Headbutt, or headbutting an opponent, or taking a chair shot to the head, etc, all in the knowledge that every one of those things may have lead him further down the path to murder/suicide.

My thoughts exactly I dont know about the rest of you but Ive never bee able to say beniot was an unforgivable murderer because his mind was gone

and its never seemed fair to me that the WWE gloss over his history and Vince painted him as a monster when the truth is at the end of his life he was in fact unwell.

And it was a total joke back then.

Now it's only a partial joke.

DISCUSSION POINTS

Assuming Chris Benoit found a way to post here despite the obvious handicap of being dead and refused to seriously talk about his murderings and suicides but made humorous quips like "That's what Nancy got for using all the hot water! Women, am I right?", how far would he get in our numerous popularity awards? Would he have a green or red all important reputation bar? Would he be accused of being Heyman?

Brought to you by the 5 year anniversary celebrations. Ceep Cripplin'!

Great wrestler in terms of legacy but as a person, inexcusable what he did to his family.

On one hand, he was in a mess both emotionally (Eddie's death) and mentally (years of hits to the head) but on the other hand, it also seemed like he was well aware of what he was doing at the ending with how planned some of the stuff was.

If we are going to remember him, also have to show some remembrance to his family. Nancy Benoit did have some legacy in wrestling even if it was mostly just as a manager/valet.

Oh yeah, Nancy would've gotten it. Maybe not after she was killed, but tied up she would've (in a totally consensual and mildly kinky way. Not Benoit letting me "have a go" before he did the deed way, you sick fuck).

You apparently missed my point also, made it clear I wasn't trying to start an argument with you, was just saying that I think you're underestimating the severity of change brain damage can cause in a person. Nobody is saying you're wrong with your beliefs, but your opening line kind of did make you seem like you were shitting on others.

Now if you want to do the whole 'Dan is trying to say I love myself' thing, feel free. I wasn't going there at all, but it's nice to see you always jump straight down that path. Time to move on my friend.

in that case, a word of advice for the future:

don't make idiotic comments like that, especially when they completely miss the mark, if you don't want somebody to respond to you in kind

I'm sorry, I thought the first sentence of the second post made it clear I was joking. I'll be mindful to make it a bit more obvious next time. That's not being snarky there either.

He'd be King of the Forum.

I am sure that he will bementioned somehow. Von Eriks were inducted to hall of fame. I thinj 2 committed suicide so who knows

Text Message 1 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”

Text Message 2 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open”
Text Message 3 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:54am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane.
Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”
Text Message 4 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:55am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane.
Fayetteville Georgia. 30215"
Text Message 5 to one co-worker (sent 6/24 at 3:58am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”

Still fucking creepy

I know, right? That humming at the beginning and end of it really gives me the legit creeps...

You're right, everything about that day is fucked up and very creepy. Everything except for that very emotionally stirring memorial RAW show for him. I mean, considering what he'd done, Vince could've just said "fuck him... let him rot in hell for all I care..." but he didn't. He gave the fans and the talent what they needed: an emotional outlet for their grieving and mourning.

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In the interest of keeping the rest of this post as short as possible I won't post all 13 parts of the show, but if you search the title, Remembering Chris Benoit - 06/25/2007 - RAW: Corpus Christi, TX, and then whatever part of 13, you should find it all on the YT.

I would hate it if I was Benoit's other kid and I reallly wanted to become a wrestler in the WWE....There would be no chance they would hire me.

:wtf:

You realise that the details surrounding the "incident" were not known when that Memorial show went out. You reckon Vince would have done that if he'd known they were celebrating a murderer?

Right. At the time RAW went on the air, the WWE (as most of us) was under the impression that it was most likely a triple homicide, not Benoit going crazy.

People "in the back" thought something was up but yeah not enough details were released to make anyone certain it was what it was.

I'll put my thoughts on Chris Benoit simply as this:

You cannot erase the accolades, the accomplishments, the heart, the drive, the passion, and determination Benoit had in the ring. He was what the business calls a "ring general". There are so many highlights and so many good matches that will go down in history as favorites for all times and Benoit's name will be cemented with the legacy of those matches and the memories they left with fellow wrestlers and fans.

Its a sad and serious set of events that unfolded in Atlanta and over the years with Chris Benoit. The man obviously had dementia and was being tormented mentally to the core. He was not the Chris Benoit that wrestling fans knew. Its sad that the familes of both Chris and Nancy had to suffer through this.

We should not tarnish his legacy in the ring, but regardless not condone his actions outside the ring.

I say honor/respect/remember the perfomer and cast the person and his demons to the wayside as he obviously by research we later learned had problems long before this incident happened.

If anything can be taken away from this, awareness and preparedness in sports or sports entertainments has and needs to be a main priority and focus.

The sight of that empty building...damn, that's fucking creepy. I'd bet that there were less than 30 people in the whole building then. o.o

And, to me, the whole Benoit disaster, as I call it, left behind an ugly legacy that, while Chris knew his way around a ring, that everyone lost, nobody won, and a huge mess was left in the wake of what happened that brutal June 2007 night, which I think that WWE is still cleaning up even today, given how hair-trigger the U.S. government is when it comes to drugs in anything that resembles sport.

It's good though that WWE's relations with Canada didn't take a tumble as a result of him. I don't think that WWE can afford to lose Canada as an international base, because if that happened, I'd think that other countries would run like hell from WWE in the wake of that.

I likely will be forever conflicted by what he did. Just not knowing how to handle anything related to him in my own mind as a fan of wrestling really sucks. =S

I'm not conflicted at all. Dude killed his wife and son, so that just overshadows everything he ever did in the ring.

If WWE ever inducts him into the HOF, the media will pick up on it and blast WWE, and the company definitely does not need that. They've been able to stay off trouble for years now, so they most likely want to keep it that way.

50 years ago today, Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play.

that is totally a lie man. sgt. pepper was released in 1967, and in the first track they say that "20 years ago today" was when sgt. pepper taught the band to play. so it was 1947. thus, it was 65 years ago

I still want to know what happened to Vince when that limo exploded...

On a side note, I remember Triple H saying on the memorial show about Benoit's ring skills that "he was all over you, the type of guy you couldn't get away from." Bet he blushed a bit a few days later...

yeah, why not induct Benoit into the HOF, they all ready have a convicted Rapist inducted

Who?