Because we are talking about how it would look on paper. I don't really know how to make it any clearer, dude -- I'm sorry. We're talking about how good a dude is at scripting television and you're like "Well, why does that matter to your enjoyment of television?" But the enjoyment of it is besides the point, because we're talking about the scripting. Of course great performance can elevate shitty material. That's completely in line with what I've been saying. You're like agreeing with me, but then arguing with me about something that isn't even in the conservation? I don't think I am a moron, but I am confused as to where you're coming from.

The smart criticism of my position would be "Ah, but by providing Jericho the platform to steal the show, does he deserve the credit?". That would at least be about what it is about. I mean, it's silly anyway, because we don't know what Jacobs did and didn't come up with. It's scuttlebutt. But I was responding to the automatic assumption that he would be a great writer, because I was wondering if evidence of that was out there. Even if he had good ideas, they were probably nixed anyway. I'm sure he can do brilliant work. I'm just saying it's not like the dude is Heyman with this proven streak of brilliance that can actually, for example, help SmackDown outdraw RAW.

It would have been nice if they actually tried.

I doubt they want him there honestly, given his penchant to beat up guys. Actually, who won between him and Jericho?

Great, now that I've asked that, someone is going to come in and ask "But how does the outcome effect how entertaining Jericho is? Can't you just enjoy him as a wrestler?"

Goddammit, this isn't that deep. But I'll explain it since you're missing my point.

I am aware that other people are talking about Jimmy Jacobs getting credit or taking credit for a segment.

You praised Jericho by saying segments he is in shine because he is great.

You then said that despite a segment he was in shining, it looked average on paper.

I asked, in direct response to that specific point, why it matters how a segment looks on paper if it works on TV.

I did not mention any specific segments or Jimmy Jacobs, though again, I understand that others were discussing those things.

My question is a direct response to your point about a segment working on TV but looking average on paper.

I don't think how a segment looks beforehand is relevant when it is well-received on TV. That is what I am asking you to clarify.

I'm not sure how much clearer you need me to be.

In some contexts yes, but in some cases no. In this context, yes. I feel like this should be obvious.

Are you a politician? You're excellent at not actually answering questions.

You're great at being a dick about it, though.

I literally just answered your question with two very short sentences. Does how something is written matter if it's successful? Well, yes, sometimes. When you're talking about the writer or writing, absolutely. I'm sorry if that isn't the answer you want to hear.

I asked why you think it's relevant and you answered "yes, sometimes."

It's not that difficult to understand. If the segment worked on TV (i.e. people enjoyed it), why does it matter how it looked on paper?

Do I need to phrase it another way for you to get it? I'll do my best if that's the case.

Oh, sorry, I thought you asked me if it is important, to which the answer is "Yes, sometimes." The writing matters because we were discussing the alleged writer. I suggested that I don't think the writing made that segment good. I wasn't talking about whether or not that matters to the layperson, the company's bottom-line, or to someone's own personal enjoyment. I wasn't even really discussing if the segment was good or not. I don't think it was particularly good. I will concede it was well-received, but I've said that I think that is because of Jericho, and not because of the quality or form of the content.

When you're discussing whether or not you'd hire a writer for something, whether or not they are a good writer is absolutely something I would look at, yes. I felt like that was explained earlier, but maybe it was unclear.

AND, to clarify: I am not saying that Jimmy Jacobs is necessarily a bad writer. I just don't think he did good writing in the WWE. Or there's no available evidence he did, anyway.

Had the same :wtf: at his outfit.

If you're asking the question "Do you think that a good product that seems to have shit writing must actually have good writing," then no, I don't necessarily think that is the case. Sometimes things that look great on paper flop, and sometimes things that look shit on paper succeed. But they don't always fly or fail by the quality of the writing. Sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't.

If your veiled question behind all of that was "Don't you think Jimmy Jacobs must be a great writer if the segment worked?" Then no.

What isnt there to like about the list, Noid? Props are super important visuals in wrestling.

Cruiserweight title belt is different. WWE 2k18 is already outdated.

I've already said I don't know/care about Jimmy Jacobs. I'm just confused as to why it was a big deal that an (apparently) average-looking segment on paper did well.

As a fan, I'm happy it went over well. Whether or not the writing was top-notch doesn't matter. It's pro wrestling. The writing doesn't have to be stellar when there are performers who can crush it on a weekly basis.

They're super-important in any kind of story-telling, really. I just didn't think it was as funny as other people. I didn't mind it. It's good for merchandising too. I just think it was low-hanging fruit and very "easy." Jericho gets mad and says "You just made the list!" Crowd pops like trained monkeys, even though Jericho is the heel. I dunno, that's wrestling.

I mean, it did remind me of his 1,004 holds list, and I wondered if there was some sort of link. If that was deliberate, that was kind of cool. It just didn't "grab" me. I felt like Jericho was just a bit goofy. I get why he did it -- he's old, he can't be doing serious wrestling machine Jericho stuff all the time. It just feels a little decadent to me. But good for him. If anyone deserves it after all those years of being, in my opinion, underappeciated he deserves to just stand there and bask for a little while.

Philosophically, I'd agree with you if it were being crushed every week: I'm an advocate for less writing in pro-wrestling and a return to booking. Maybe Jacobs would be a phenomenal booker? Then he could get away with just letting Jericho go out there and be Jericho, because then that would actually be his call. But that's not what we were talking about.

On a cruiserweights/video game-related note, I heard they were getting paid only once off for their addition, with no additional royalties.

Lol it was literally the most over part of the show.

Depends on if they show up to RAW to try and sell merchandise, I suppose.

Yeah, I know. I think that says a lot about the show.

Thought it looked different and not purple at the house show I was at..... thought it must have just been the lighting and the distance away I was.....

A lot of years back it seemed like every-time a smackdown game came out kane reappeared with a new mask making those games outdated as well. :lol:

Game doesn't have the vocal version of the Usos theme anyway so it was automatic TRASH on day one... ish.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DGU7AWQ3QhI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I recall seeing this “darker”/black version before, then it was purple on tv. Looking at the picture it still looks a little purple to me, so I thought it may have been the lighting.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Whether you're rooting for <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEPeytonRoyce?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWEPeytonRoyce</a>​ or <a href="https://twitter.com/KairiSaneWWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KairiSaneWWE</a>​, you won't want to miss <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTTakeOver?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NXTTakeOver</a>: WarGames! <a href="https://t.co/YRoxXRz83w">https://t.co/YRoxXRz83w</a> <a href="https://t.co/fAqrOgKJMk">pic.twitter.com/fAqrOgKJMk</a></p>&mdash; WWE NXT (@WWENXT) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWENXT/status/919611694724235265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Peyton Royce is straight sex. Love her.

Do you reckon they could just have Hunico come out in tights/trunks/sans mask and “start again” with him in the midcard?

I don't see why not.

Maybe get that gold bike back, though.

Yeah, I think you might be right. I got suckered in because I was looking for a difference, haha.

I was thinking that they should at least milk something out of it. Hair vs. Mask against someone or something. But you could probably just do some Sin Cara/Hunico dual identity thing.

He's probably not that valuable, in truth. But I'd like to see them give him a shot. Put him against Chris Jericho or something. I dunno, I've just always liked him. His springboard in the Ladder Match at WrestleMania 32 was my favorite part from that match.

Even just changing the strap to a darker color makes it look 100x better imo.

Hunico is very good in the ring. I would ditch the mask and put him on NXT where the wrestling is more of a focus, and build him back up from there.

Sin Cara Azul vs. Sin Cara Negro really sticks in my mind. There was something about Hunico's story of being a dude who got his gimmick stolen and then came back for revenge that appealed to me. I get the NXT idea. I wouldn't be upset if they did that. I've always thought they should do this with Epico and Primo, honestly, given that they are another two dudes that know what they are doing, but have just been exhausted on the main roster.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RWxaVe_Ka-8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lol @ that one ending

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hGyIff3KWMs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm doing some Hunico FCW research:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ycZCIJWvGm0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P-mHpVmOz64" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That progress ending. Wow.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Impact Wrestling is teasing the announcement of “IMPACT PIZZA” in a new press release. <a href="https://t.co/M9WCDtGBOz">pic.twitter.com/M9WCDtGBOz</a></p>&mdash; Ryan Satin (@ryansatin) <a href="https://twitter.com/ryansatin/status/919980681429520384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Those jokes are too easy.