It had the potential to be such a great angle/character and Windham was the right guy for the character.

If Windham had been 6'4 and 300 lbs of jacked muscle as a horror character, he would have all the titles in WWE right now.

Like Kane did?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">AEW Double or Nothing is now the largest non-WWE gate in North American history with close to 13,000 tickets sold and over $1,100,000 in revenue</p>&mdash; Samster203 サミー・カラフ (@KhalafSammy) <a href="https://twitter.com/KhalafSammy/status/1504878297875943425?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

im certain if you adjusted for inflation theyd be dwarffed by any major show pre 00

can we all make a concerted effort to quote this as needed/often as possible? thank you


i think the high production value made it corny and shitty. the character could have thrived in a different company back in the 90s (not to mention the material would be more relevant), or perhaps a different dimension altogether


the way i perceived him before i ever saw him on aew, i liked him. the way they have presented him is confounding to say the least. bringing a guy in who is injured has a lot of potential if they are expected to heal properly, brian pillman was so amazing to see in the wwf before he got back in the ring at least, but wwf made him look great and preserved his aura that he'd already established before in a mid-90s pg wwf period, which is just as relevant as say a goldust or a steve austin coming up at that time... tamer than it could be, yet captivating. regardless -- love that danhausen!

It’s really not till you put Noid on ignore that you notice how much he posts back to back.

Him and xcummer on ignore and there’s almost entire pages of threads I just don’t read. Frankly it’s brilliant.

Reality in wrestlings a great topic with Brocks apparent attempted murder on Smackdown tonight.

I find that sort of stuff takes me out of the believability of it all more than say Danhausen who may or may not be cursing someone.

Not to restart the argument and I’m fully open to it being the lens I watch through but I just always found the vehicular manslaughter stuff in WWE and WCW made me embarrassed to watch.

The irony of me posting back to back is not lost on me

I used to make

Quadruple posts

Because I

dont give a fuuuuuuuuuuck

Wooooooooooo

There’s nothing wrong with posting back to back. There is, however, something wrong with thinking AEW does great numbers.

The Fiend's Summerslam was flawless, so much so that it created WAY too much praise and buzz to fly under Vince's radar. Vince had to insert his hooky spin on it, and ruined it.

So? That means literally nothing. They did better than a bunch of wrestling companies that went out of business.

Next question: How many tickets were bought by Tony himself?

Adam Sandler's movie Big Daddy is the highest grossing live action film of all time other than non-Adam Sandler movies.

Succeeding where others couldn’t. That means absolutely nothing folks.

Lol What an awful analogy.

lol it's a moot point entirely when you adjust for inflation.

I'm curious as to how much tickets cost to a WCW Nitro in 98, for instance, but haven't been able to find that info yet. There are several of those that gated more than AEWs number here when you adjust for inflation and that's not even taking into account what I imagine is a much cheaper ticket in the first place.

You imagine WCW’s tickets being much cheaper even with inflation factored in?

Because even if that’s true, it doesn’t really matter. They’re charging what people will pay. It’s not really a point against AEW if they make more by charging more because people are willing to pay more.

I'm not using it as a point against them. WTF? They can charge whatever they want as long as people are willing to pay, as you say. I'm just trying to add some context to the whole biggest gate besides WWE argument because there should be an asterisk next to that claim imo. WCW still easily holds that record when the adjustments are made.

Look I was a hardcore WCW mark back in those days tbh and ijs I will not stand for AEW trying to steal their Thunder!

:shifty:

what people are willing to pay is relative to their disposable income. the dollar has lost 42% of its value since 98. youre nearly paying double today what you would have paid at peak wcw for a ticket.



dollar figure sales arent a meaningful measuring stick without price adjustments. its apples to horses. its a bumper sticker brag.

No, they are doing slightly better than companies that went out of business, but pretending it is SUPER meaningful. They are qualifying it as only WWE has done better. But WWE has done multiple times better. AEW drawing a house of $50,000 more than a WCW show from 20+ years ago is supposed to be amazing why? Because only WWE has done more, but by Millions and Millions? $50,000 more is great, but lets just ignore WWE's actual numbers. Its all the same tiresome spun bullshit as always.

Purposefully, it is just as absurd to hype it up that way.

Serious question, why do they not just say "$1.1 Million is AEW's best gate ever"? A pure, simple fact with no spin. I would have read that and thought "solid gate, good for them" and would not have anything to complain about. Framing EVERYTHING as something to be a cheerleader about and #LFG'ing, all that extra bullshit, it invites dickheads like me who see through it to have something to take issue with.

It is no longer about them doing their best gate, it is about them not being able to ever just STFU and take a win.

This is an inflation argument though, which is valid. Adjust for inflation and compare.

I’m just saying once you’ve done that, AEW charging more (after adjusting) doesn’t really matter, assuming that’s what Seph meant.

AEW fanboys do this with their live gates and their PPV buys. They talk about how AEW does more than anyone since WCW like that’s even a brag. You what? Beat TNA? But it’s also dishonest because the accessibility of PPV is way different now. And sycophants amalgamate their international buys with domestic. If you look at what AEW does in the US, they’re still trailing ECW. Never mind how many more heads per buy there was likely in the era of traditional PPV. But don’t let common sense get in the way of the story that this shit is magic.

Oh, and they do it with their international TV deals too. Maybe a Canadian can confirm, but from what I understand WWE is aired several times a week in Canada, which are slots that the network it’s on sells advertising for. I’ve also heard that it has an on demand presence. So the importance of live first runs is nowhere near as important as the AEW fanboys frame the one airing of Dynamite a week getting slightly more eyeballs than WWE make out. It isn’t like they’re winning a popularity contest or are more important to their network.

Just wanted to quote your long roundabout way of complimenting them. Why anyone would be angry at some entity celebrating what they feel are great successes for them but actually be happy for them is.... something.


Khan def needs to STFU on the "WE HAVE A HUGE SURPRISE!" thing, undoubtedly.

Why in the shit is DDT needed in AEW? Hopefully they are just filling out ROH or something. I don't want more Nakazawa type shit.

Isn't DDT the comedy fed that had a ladder win a title?

This is def what AEW needs to get to the "next level"!

DDT does have serious wrestlers as well. Ibushi came out of there, after all. A deal with DDT would also give them a partnership with TJP, which is regarded as on of the better joshi promotions out there.

That said, given that Orange Cassidy has been treated like a main event talent, im not hopeful that they'll cherry pick the serious stuff from ddt.

TJP will def make all the difference for AEW, hope he still does the dab!

DDT may or may not have good wrestling on its cards. It’s kind of proof that if you act like a fucking joke, no one is going to take you seriously. So working with them is just another obstacle placed between them and my personal enjoyment of what they are trying to achieve.

This cannot be a good sign in regards to that AEW/New Japan relationship everyone assured me was fine either. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s in the gutter, but working with one of their rivals probably isn’t a great political move.

Meltzer probably knows more than he reports there, because he’s started saying more and more negative things about New Japan in a “no one cares about them anymore” kind of way.

Brandi made an interesting tweet. She said “Happy Monday” and shared some meme about the next chapter of your life making others regret how badly they have treated you. Whoa-oh.

The shoot interviews were always going to be very interesting.

Of course, that post could be about anything. But you have to know what a comment on a Monday is going to get people talking.

Considering that NJPW works with its own rivals, I cant see the DDT partnership being a deal breaker for future collaboration. CMLL and AAA are the only companies to my knowledge that take serious offense from their partners working with the other brand.

I may be wrong here (often am as I’m not subscribed to this one vs. the other nonsense, and I’m not on Twitter) but the guy that posted that is a fan, not affiliated with AEW at all outside of being a fan. So how does the criticism become of AEW not being able to “take a win”? :wtf:

There is a big difference between you working with someone to promote your own stuff and another partner swooping in to do the same thing without you. We’ll see how this all goes, lol.

The whole culture around this is stupid. xrod is right — you could have just told the truth. It’s this need — and it’s shared by fans, the company and commentators like Meltzer — to prop this thing up way more than is honest or reflective of the reality we live in.

It’s pissing in the wind and saying it’s raining. It’s annoying and people are allowed to be annoyed by it. In some cases it can even turn people away from enjoying a product. Who likes it when Jehovah’s Witnesses actually come to the door, right? And it’s harmful to historically accurate discourse. It doesn’t do AEW any favors to pretend that they are overachieving and there’s no work to be done when it comes to repairing the view many people have of wrestling.

AEW doing its record gate is fine. We don’t need the comparisons to promotions that thrived back in the day of actual ticket offices. We don’t need to ignore that AEW’s doing better ratings than it was this time last year largely because NXT is no longer competing with it. We can call 120k global PPV buys in an era where any kid can watch on their tablet what it is without needing to compare to terrestrial PPV you needed to prioritize in your household and throw on the bill.

Everyone and their dog knows this company isn’t going gangbusters. They go wild when AEW approaches Raw in men aged 18-34 — and let’s be honest — advertisers aren’t going wild for the 34 yr old men watching wrestling. But they know exactly what would happen if Raw and Dynamite went head-to-head on a Monday. Yet they still treat it like a head-to-head win.

People are going to lead with their biases and their hopes and their dreams. That’s what it is. But it does get a little annoying when that poisons what is supposed to be something resembling factual reporting around modern events.

A company that’s not only still in business but selling ppvs and putting asses in seats while having a multi year TV deal to produce 3 hours of TV and semi regular weekend specials is only “slightly more successful” than companies that don’t exist. Amazing.

Yeah, no one in their right mind would bitch about someone stating the simple truth that AEW had their record gate and awkwardly try to downplay it.

Oh.

I don’t even know what convoluted point he’s trying to make

So you quoted the first part of what I wrote, but ignored the rest where I explained why I had an issue? That seems like an awkward way to downplay my explanation.

Lol, don’t try and reason with that guy. It’s not about having a conversation in good faith for him. He’s got a projection erection. He’s just gotta try and GOTCHA because it’s all about GOTCHA. Doesn’t matter if his interpretation of something isn’t the most logical one or makes any sort of sense in the first place. Doesn’t matter if it’s completely dishonest. GOTCHA!

Your issue is petty and forced, your analogy was not analogous to what the guy tweeted and I’m not gonna spend three pages trying to get you to understand why only for you to still be as confused as you were in
the beginning.

I quoted the part that was relevant to what Derpfect said.

:lol: Too fucking easy.

It is petty because you think it is petty. I think it is valid criticism, not everything needs to be overhyped from the company or the fans.

Your criticisms are valid. He can’t dismiss them on their grounds, so he has to contextualize them how he sees fit. They’re “petty” because he needs them to be to dismiss them.

People don’t like liars. The company and its fans lie (including gormless-norm). People don’t like it, he goes wah! It’s not just you and me calling out this sort of aggrandizing in this thread. He’s picking a fight with you because it’s you. He develops fixations and you’re his latest one. If you started praising AEW for false achievements, he’d be saying things like “There are plenty of reasons to praise this company, but these are not among them.”

He’s the worst kind of faux-intellectual. He believes he has a firm grasp on logic, but he starts with the conclusion he wants and works his way out. There is no benefit in trying to reason with him.

Ask him to actually address the points you’re raising. He won’t be able to do it. Does he actually believe that getting a $1 million gate in 2022 is suitably framed in context by ignoring inflation? Of course not. He’s disingenuous as fuck. And he’s got the audacity to call you petty, lol.

You’re probably being really succinct and to the point and already proving all that, but as someone who likes to have discussions in good faith, his conduct is really bothersome to me. More people should call him out on his bullshit. I got done with it and as soon as he is gone you realize he adds NOTHING to conversation anymore. Not a single thing. He has no insights. He’s dependent on you now like he was dependent on me.

BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Getting caught in another bold face, easily demonstrable lie is so embarrassing this fucker’s gonna overpost to try to bury it despite “having me on ignore”.

Will we have this same debate when WWE lie about and then promote their attendance figures for Mania?

There’s been no “meltdown” yet, but Kenny Omega liked a tweet that mocked Cody returning to “sports entertainment.” Between Brandi, Omega and just the way this stuff goes — meltdown impending, folks.

No, because everyone knows the WWE’s numbers are bullshit and call them on their spin. Very few people do with AEW. But I am glad to see that number is increasing as infatuation with this fad fades.

WWE calls Raw the longest running weekly episodic show on television.

LET’S JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS OF ALL THE NON-WEEKLY EPISODIC TV SHOWS.

OMG THOSE FUCKS!

When they come out and tell you this is the highest grossing Mania of all-time, that will probably be true. That will no doubt have something to do with the economic factors surrounding it. To pretend that is causally linked to the quality of the product is a falsehood.

This Mania will probably be the most watched Mania of all-time because of the Peacock deal. Should we just pretend that accessibility was there for the shows of yesteryear?

I love this kind of rationale, (FYI, if someone says, for example, that this Mania is the most tickets they ever sold to Mania, I would point out that combined over 2 nights is not the same) but why does it matter?

Why do I have to prove everytime that I criticize AEW that I would have also criticized WWE in the past and/or would in the future?

This is another aspect about AEW fandom I have talked about for years.

AEW and its fandom seemingly cannot survive without WWE, not their TV shows, not their podcasts, not their tweets, not their over hype, not their self congratulating validation, nothing. AEW without "BUT WWE" would have hardly any storylines, a big lack of talking points, and literally NO rallying cry to speak of to pump up the cult.

"YEAH WE HAD THE BEST NON-WWE GATE EVER!!!! SURE, IT IS LIKE 10% OF WWE, BUT YEAH WE WHOOPED 1999 ECW AND 2007 IMPACT SO WOOOOOOOO FUCK YOU WWE HAHAHA!!!"

Not doing anywhere NEAR as good as WWE does, but doing better than OTHER wrestling companies, means AEW is doing better than WWE?!? It is illogical, annoying, and asinined.

Ill go back to my question, why do they not just say "$1.1 Million is AEW's best gate ever"? Answer, because Cultist don't care about that, but if they can use it to pretend AEW GOOD FED BAD, well shit it is party time.

Are we really back to this???

https://i.imgflip.com/4oq3k4.jpg

Lol Literally no one said or implied that doing better than every non-WWE company means they’re doing better than WWE. Literally… no one.

That’s your weird interpretation so that you can make up an “AEW BAD” out of nowhere.

yeah.meme.cumdorxhausen

It’s called an actual, proper analogy. I know that’s a foreign concept to you.

You don’t but I think doing so lends itself to being somewhat “fair” in your “assessment”. But you’re not trying to be “fair”, so why would you?

The tweet that we’ve been talking about doesn’t even do this.

The amount of just flat out making shit up between these two… I’ve never seen anything like it in all my years of inter-webbing.

:y:

But they just want to have discussions in good faith!

Absolutely we do. In your case, you can’t keep up. Apparently fan is calling us liars because…I don’t know. xrod doesn’t lie, from everything I’ve read, and I know I don’t.

Oh wait, it’s because I called him out on the dishonest nature of his fixations.

There is evidence that points to the contrary on that “we want to have discussions in good faith” point.

Yeah, screech. You gotta keep up with the superior intelligence and total honesty of a guy who reads “largest non-WWE gate” as “better than WWE” and a guy who shits on AEW for booking angles that happened inside his own head.

That would require reading more of their dumb posts than what other people quote. Doesn't seem worth it.

did not realize former backyard rassler KAGE of various tpww backyard wrestling threads is actually FUEGO DEL SOL in AEW

Lol wtf

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1uNFgTN0C7U" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

oh my god

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZlvMWILGUec" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Little late...but this whole thing with DDT wrestling is weird af to me. The network doesn't want them to sign The Briscoes....but is ok with them working with a company that had a title called GAY World Anal Championship (They unified it with their Extreme title eventually)? Dunno... I don't think a working relationship with DDT is a good look imo.

Kenny DMed Meltzer already and told him no matter what, Cody must NEVER receive a 5 star match rating in WWE.

AEW could rake in 100million views a show, cause Russia to surrender, cure cancer, and single handedly convince MTV to go back to being a music television station (also spawn a bunch of cool ass bands) andddd Noid would still draw straw man arguments.

PS. Give him an adequate pee pee, too.

I personally appreciate the copious amount of male nudity DDT encourages during comedy matches.

Cite one. Anyone not worth talking to I block.

It’s not. Briscoes were probably sabotaged. But networks don’t neeed to be consistent.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">18mths ago vs NOW <a href="https://t.co/TrLXRlHmyD">pic.twitter.com/TrLXRlHmyD</a></p>&mdash; PowerHouse HOBBS (@TrueWillieHobbs) <a href="https://twitter.com/TrueWillieHobbs/status/1506442743995895808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hope they bring the GAY World Anal Championship to AEW...

I'm all over here just wishing GLOW woulda got another season on the 'Flix...

Alison Brie...mmm

AEW does GAY World Anal Open on Dynamite?

I'm not sure why xrod lets himself be noid's minion. why isn't it the other way around?

xrod watches the product, at least. Noid faps to an upcoming Briscoe vs FTR match that technically isn't AEW.

I don't know how many times that has been implied in this thread. I guess it is just easier to lump people together. Start from the beginning of this thread, it is all here.

Lol, do people really consider you my minion? I think you do damn well on your own. Easier to lump people together than accept that it’s possible not everybody falls into line thinking the same crap.

Don’t worry. Kurt Angle can’t even have a 5 star match in the WWE. Cody is suddenly going to become awful in Meltzer’s eyes.

Apparently Taz had a bit of a “meltdown” over the KO dressed up as Austin/fake out thing on Raw…

(Also, MJF and Cody had a long feud after MJF turned on Cody. Shitting on AEW’s storytelling because “they never touched again” after MJF’s turn is demonstrably wrong. But… “good faith”)

And I’m pretty sure even xrod has quietly conceded that the whole narrative of “He’s trying to say they’re better than WWE with this tweet!” was ridiculous but…

Gotta stick by your guy. Logic be damned.

How is any of that not a good faith discussion? I genuinely don’t think what you thought we were discussing is what I was trying to discuss and agreed with that.

Austin Theory is a bigger star than just about anyone in AEW right now. Both in terms of how well known he is (due to WWE’s audience) and how featured he is on his programming (“Moose stars in Impact Wrestling”). I’d argue more people are tuning in to see what happens next with Austin Theory than are paying vivid attention to AEW.

Being featured in the more popular show is going to be more culturally relevant than the entire universe of a tiny one revolving around you (like it does anyone down there anyway). I didn’t pivot from anything. I said it then and I’ll say it now: Austin Theory is a bigger star in wrestling than Adam Page.

You guys just ever going to agree to disagree? It’s been like 2 years.

This was way more recently than that. I think it was like January or something, lol. But yeah, that’s what I was trying to do when I said I believe we were interested in talking about different things or whatever. I’ve got no problem with XL at all. He just pokes me on purpose sometimes, lol.