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Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchables (Post 4005574)

Quite possibly something to do with the Stephanie Brown debacle.

But that might just be the ravings of a fandom scorned.

No just ranting of a fandom scorned. In reality this was a Cartoon Network decision that may bite them in the ass. Hard.

May I ask what the Stephanie Brown debacle is?

The only "debacle" I can think of (aside from the very existence of most of the DCnU) is that Stephanie Brown was supposed to be Batgirl in the Smallville Season 11 comic book, but DC made the writer turn her into Barbara Gordon.

O... Is that something that's really catastrophic?

It is weird and kinda stupid, but don't see how it relates to Young Justice.

Stephanie Brown was slated to appear in an episode of Young Justice (or maybe already did), but the character has been labelled as "toxic" by DC management, alongside Cass Cain and some others, and she is not supposed to appear in any DC-related product, hence why when they realised BQM was trying to slip her through in Smallville season 11, she got replaced with Babs. So upon discovering she was supposed to be in Young Justice, DC flipped its lid and got it pulled. Allegedly.

Incidentally, the new villain Knightfall was taken by many Steph fans to be a deliberate dig at them (blonde haired girl in "Steph's colours" looking like a cross between Azrael and Spoiler, etc) - yeah, it's a stretch, but they've caused enough of a ruckus that Gail Simone is trying to get the colour scheme changed so that there will be absolutely no confusion or allusion that the character was in any way inspired by Steph.

From DC Women Kicking Ass:

My in-boxes started to fill up early yesterday with notes. And more notes. And then there were emails and tweets. And they all asked the same thing; did Cartoon Network pull Young Justice and postpone it until January because Stephanie Brown was in it?
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mby8k9s4Jz1qbujox.jpg
First let’s clarify things. Cartoon Network didn’t pull Young Justice. It pulled DC Nation including Green Lantern, DC Digital shorts (including the premiere of Amethyst) and Young Justice. The creator of Green Lantern is upset; the creator of the Amethyst short is understandably mad as well)
Secondly, Cartoon Network has been futzing with their schedule on Young Justice since the show premiered. In fact according to Greg Weisman the episode that was scheduled to appear on Saturday was supposed to have been the hiatus episode for the second season but they ended up going on hiatus earlier.
So why did Cartoon Network pull it? There are a few theories floating around:
1. That there is ongoing legal issues with the use of Milestone characters and since Icon and Rocket are in the show, they postponed until January.
This was first reported here but in the comments you can see that the TV rights are separate from the comics rights. And the comics rights are being dealt with right now based on comments I heard at NYCC.
2. Cartoon Network is unhappy with the ratings.
The show is one of the top rated on CN but I’m not sure whether it is in key demographics. So it’s a possibility.
3. Cartoon Network is flaky and decided to put the show on hiatus at the last minute because they are celebrating their 20th Anniversary
We’ve seen them postpone stuff before including YJ. And they are celebrating their anniversary. Still seems sudden. But definitely flaky.
4. Someone at DC Comics who doesn’t want Stephanie Brown to appear anywhere (whether because she is “toxic” or on ice for a huge comeback in a few years) they found out about the show this week and demanded that Cartoon Network, which is owned by Turner, put DC Nation on hiatus so she could be removed.
I’ve checked out a few different sources and honestly I’m not sure anyone at DC even knew Stephanie Brown was going to be in the show. Don’t get me wrong. She’s still toxic in comics (and I was told that by not one but two more sources this past week - BUT, well I’ll save that for another post in a few weeks … maybe), but TV is separate from comics and CN is not part of the WB. And if they really had an issue with the show they could have run a repeat of another episode.
We’re still waiting to hear an official explanation from CN but my take is the Stephanie issue is a non-starter.

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Although that's kind of why I said "allegedly", because at best it's a running theory that she had something to do with it, given how much vitriol DC's upper management seems to reserve for the character.

This whole situation makes me hate the corporate part of these companies. All this over bullshit.

Young Justice deserves better than this. Green Lantern is growing on me as well. These gems desrve way more credit for luring in viewers to the Saturday/Sunday Morning Timeslots.

I was wondering whether that blonde chick was supposed to be a nod to Stephanie Brown.

Black kid with the hat was definitely a nod to Static.

They showed both of them a lot.

They did. almost as if they're planning to hook up the team with both characters in season 3.

I miss Stephanie Brown as Batgirl so much. :'(

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...icture1-39.png

I loved the dynamic between her and Damien.

In the OLD DC Universe.

Wait why are Stephanie Brown and Cass Cain "Toxic"?

Don't know where the word "toxic" came from... but basically, upper DC Management just does not want them to appear anywhere. Probably to get Barbara Gordon "over" as the "one and only" Batgirl again.

Like that time in the 90s when they wanted Kyle Rayner to be the "one and only" Green Lantern. Killed Hal Jordan and the entire Corps, Depowered and Crippled John Stewart, Messed up Guy Gardner (not that he was even a Green Lantern at the time, but he did use a "power ring", so that had to go), and turned Alan Scott into Sentinel.

Watched Arrow tonight, and I'm not feeling it.

Really didn't like the Cop dad. He kind of sucked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitz (Post 4006730)

Wait why are Stephanie Brown and Cass Cain "Toxic"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw (Post 4006749)

"Toxic" is a direct quote from at least two writers working for DC. I follow DC Women Kicking Ass, as it's actually a really well-sourced/connected blog. The lady who runs it seems to know her shit, and she's said on multiple occasions she's been told by people in the DC camp the characters are regarded as "toxic" - from a sales standpoint, and from the standpoint of getting in Babs' way as being the one and only Batgirl again.

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From The Outhouse (read more):

Last night, the Outhouse reported that executives at DC had instructed Bryan Q. Miller to remove the character Stephanie Brown from an upcoming Smallville Season 11 arc and had given him a list of approved characters with which to replace her. Miller ultimately chose Barbara Gordon from the list, which allegedly also included Dick Grayson. Shortly thereafter, Wired.com reported that multiple sources at DC considered both Brown and Cassandra Cain, another former Batgirl, as "toxic" characters.

Reaching out to several DC sources, I can confirm that "toxic" is indeed the word being bandied about by DC executives, with one source quoted as saying "Toxic? Yup, that about sums it up." The uncomfortable truth of the matter is that DC does not consider Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown to be marketable characters and is doing their best to scrub their comics clean of them, looking to prevent the characters from ever having a chance to take root in a book, be it in a starring or supporting role.

Just so very stupid.

Yeah, it's ridiculous, honestly. No idea why they think Cass and Steph aren't marketable. Cass was a brilliant character. As was Steph. It makes me more sad that she was "officially" never a Robin than it does that it happened to Tim. At least Tim still exists.

I really thought that Steph finally really found her "place" in the DCU with becoming Batgirl.

Yeah she's actually my fave Batgirl. I felt like she earned it rather than 'that's just how it is, Babs is Batgirl'.

So did I. As I'm pretty sure I've expressed somewhere along the line in this thread, when Bruce was displaced in time, even though I knew it was temporary, I really dug the 'new' Bat family, with Dick and Damian at its core, Tim in Dick's old role, and Steph as Batgirl. The rapport among the Bat-kids was just phenomenal. I liked that Dick wasn't as brooding as Bruce. I dunno, I feel like that really could have been an exciting new chapter for the story. Even when Bruce got back, I had quiet hopes he would take on a role similar to that he has in Batman Beyond, rather than re-assuming the central mantle.

Totally. I even liked it after Bruce came back, with the whole two Batmen deal. Dick still starred in a number of books as Batman, with Damien by his side. Bruce mostly did his own thing, and worked on Batman Incorporated. He let Dick worry about Gotham for the most part, as well as take on a role in the Justice League. Also, it seemed that when he needed backup, he would go to Tim. So you had Dick and Damien, and Bruce and Tim. Was pretty good. I thought they could just keep on going with that.

Also, I enjoyed the dynamic between Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin more than I have the dynamic of Bruce and Damien.

I mean, realistically I knew that Dick would not be Batman forever... but I expected it to come to a head in some sort of kickass story where he decides to stop being Batman, and becomes his own man again.... but is still just as prominent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsarama

During New York Comic Con, Newsarama spoke with DC Co-Publisher Dan DiDio. The interview included fan questions, and the inevitable question of Stephanie Brown and Wally West appeared once more. This time, rather than just a short blurb, however, DiDio gave a detailed explanation of why those characters have not yet appeared in the New 52 DC Comics Universe. The following is his full-length answer transcribed.

"You know, me and Stephanie, we go way back. The story with Stephanie Brown goes, they came to me as Executive Editor with the "War Games" story, and said we're going to kill Stephanie Brown. I knew Stephanie Brown for who she was, and said, 'I don't know, if this is going to be the big ending to your story it doesn't feel big enough at the time, because the character wasn't strong enough yet.' So I said, 'Why don't we make her Robin for a short period of time, build some interest in her, and then we kill her!'

"Little did I know... so we did and we wound up bringing her back and the level of excitement wasn't there for what we thought it would be, for the amount people were talking about it. So we went ahead and made her Batgirl, and the stories were interesting but it never really took hold, with the sales, with the expectations we had for the series.

"And again, I say this for every character that's 'missing' with the exception of Wally West (laughs). No, I'm kidding. I say this for every character that's missing, even including Wally West, including Donna Troy, all of them. The reason why we didn't go out there and say 'every character is dead' or didn't kill them off in front of people is because everyone has potential. And every character can come back if the story is right, or at the right time, with the right environment.

"Our main goal was never to introduce everyone all at the same time. We can't do that. If we do that, then we're right back where we started, that's the last thing we want. Every character should be reintroduced with story.

"Even to the point when Stephanie Brown came back from the dead, I'll never forget the scene. Stephanie Brown came back from the dead and she walked into a room and Batman goes, 'oh! I knew she wasn't dead...'

"I said, 'that didn't feel right. If this was a big deal it should've felt bigger!' If Batman knew that, then he seems negligent, because he didn't do anything about it. And the levels of that. So I really want to make sure that when we go ahead and do things like that, the teams do it, that they craft it properly, that they take advantage of every emotional beat, they build it for everything it's worth. Because when you do that, people become more invested in the characters, not just about the conversation of them coming back, but actually going to read about them after they do come back. That's the win. Not the fact you're bringing them back, it's actually making them stay, and making people care about them more than just the people asking right now."

Never does DiDio, in this detailed explanation, call any of those characters "toxic," a welcome change from the culture we've heard from DC Comics about many of these characters for the last year. Does this mean Stephanie or Wally or Donna or any other missing character will be back soon? Not likely, unfortunately. However, it does mean there's still hope, so cling to your blue power rings.

"She's not toxic, but we're gonna treat her pretty much like she is because we actually love her."

Whatever.

DiDio is often cited as being one of the key people who is totally against her presence anywhere in DC-related media at the moment, so honestly, I find that whole speech disingenuous as fuck.

Pretty much have hated DiDio ever since my first exposure to him was when he took over writing Superboy's series..... and thought it would be a good idea to do away with all of his supporting cast and move him to an apartment building, where he would act as the SUPERintendent. Series was quickly canceled five or six issues later.

I know it probably isn't all his fault... but I blamed him nonetheless.

I caught the first two episodes of Arrow last night. Good stuff I thought.

I never watched Smallville (mostly because I never got CW most of the time it was on), was it this good?

It had its ups and downs.

As I expect Arrow will.

WB puts the Justice League movie down for the same date as Avengers 2.

It's going down, and somebody's gonna get embarrassed.

Stupid, stupid move.

I don't see the news about the same date. I see the same year. No freakin' way would they do the same date. Nobody is that stupid. ...... Right?

"Summer 2015" is all I can find for it, versus May 1st 2015 for Avengers 2, which isn't quite summer.

Apologies, same date was my preemptive speculation and I should do more sleuthing before I post it here, unless I have several details supporting my thoughts.

Pretty big speculation right there.

"2015? Avengers is being released that year! MUST BE THE SAME DATE."