Its on forbes. Also reporting 196k in the 18-49 demo.

It will go up some for the final rating though. Last week the early numbers were 564k and went up to 622k for the final numbers.

I hate this stupid chest-thumping self-congratulatory bullshit AEW does. Your show sucks, your ratings suck, hockey is more valuable than you, stop trying to convince yourselves.

This seriously makes me want to see them humbled. Ship this shit to Boomerang and people can lie about how good it is there.

Wow, TNA on Destination American called, they want their ratings back.

So after Phil, Bryan, Cole, and Ruby, they are back to the audience/viewing numbers they were getting before any of them signed. They just can't keep any new viewers long term, it always settles right back to the same hardcore audience.

Also, Tony Khan is an idiot bragging all the time like the short 14 year old that thinks he is great at basketball and won't shut the fuck up. If he just got out of his own way I am certain AEW would be doing better.

Then again, his father is pretty unsuccessful with the Jaguars and their soccer team, so maybe they can all go hide with Urban Meyers for a while.

People just can’t accept that this product isn’t good and doesn’t have any appeal to the average fan. They did all this stuff for attention, and got a little bit, but the shows have not been good enough to keep people.

Ok this one made me laugh lol

There’s no Dynamite to set up Rampage is there? So they’re going into things pretty cold. I’m interested to see what NHL does in the spot. It’s going to be fun hearing people make excuses either way. If hockey does better than AEW...yikes. But if it doesn’t, going to be nice hearing all the ratings marks stutter and stammer trying to explain why a show with a lower demo is in the slot.

Dynamite is apparently getting shuffled around a lot over the next few weeks? That can wreak havoc on you. The show was already losing viewers off the back of all the revived “change the world” hype. Your TV presence being Friday and Saturday is going to be hell. But AEW just isn’t that important.

I think more people watch my grandmother accidentally live stream her knitting than watch Rampage at this point. Rhodes to the Top was DOA too. I wonder how AEW would deal with being canceled? They’re quite immature and pissy about things at times.

Bless the Taz

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Taz sings a bit of don mclean <a href="https://t.co/BRjv3XnphD">pic.twitter.com/BRjv3XnphD</a></p>&mdash; bossmoz (@BossMoz) <a href="https://twitter.com/BossMoz/status/1445787143960285198?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Gee, why wouldn’t people watch a show with Billy Gunn wrestling and Taz singing in 2021?

Billy Gunn is apparently an agent. Whose fucking matches is he putting together? Lol. Good on him for taking that schmuck’s money and getting his sons jobs though.

What do you think is more likely? Warner cancels Rampage or do they move it to Wednesdays? Serious question. I’ve seen some people suggesting that it will just be moved until after Dynamite or Rhodes to the Top as part of an AEW block.

I can’t see RttT lasting more than one season and wouldn’t be surprised to see it cancelled before the end. I could see Rampage going 10-11 on Wednesdays after the hockey. But that would mean that AEW would either have to do it live every week or air something taped from the past week or taped earlier.

I guess there’s always the chance they could move it to streaming too.

Or make it a Saturday morning show, but that would always be taped.

Noid

Hangman don't give a fuck what you have to say. You bring notta to the table. blahblahblah

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The biggest problem with AEW is the problem TNA had: They have midcarders who think they're top guys with the pencil. And I'm not even talking about Cody.

How else do you bring in CM Punk and have him feud with midcarders? How else do you bring in Bryan Danielson and make him look weak to 3/4s of the EVPs? How else do you bring in Christian, have him do nothing for a couple of months, than give him a cheap win over Omega before more or less making him look weak to 3/4s of the EVPs?

You know what that causes? The TNA effect. Where you bring in named guys, pop a ceiling, when they get killed by your midcarders who think they're main eventers, you bring in new named people, pop a slightly lower ceiling. Rinse. Repeat.

Danielson wrestled the top guy in the company to a draw, beat the shit outta one of the bucks, was booked like wrecking machine again in the multi man match and is going to eventually get another banger with Omega. He’s looked an ass kicker from day 1.

And how do we know Punk isn’t calling his booking? I think if Punk walked in Wednesday and said he wants to start a program against Omega they’d do it.

Bryan doesn't look weak yet

CM Punk I am beginning to suspect isn't in it "seriously" and just signed for some big money and doesn't want to actually be "in the thick of it" like Bryan is. This is the only logical explanation I can come up with for signing Punk and doing nothing with him. Because he doesn't actually want to do anything.

Danielson didn't really "beat the s***" outta one of the Bucks.... he should have, but it was a "hard fought" and "competitive" match.

Punk is certainky doing things. Not high profile stuff outside of the Darby stuff. But it’s not surprising he’s working with young guys. He’ll get to a main event feud eventually. That scene is already packed and Punk wrestling the young guys has been good so far.

Danielson and Punk are nearly giants in AEW. thats my biggest gripe with their product. save a small few i dont believe anyone on the roster could win a bar fight with their mother's anal virginity on the line.

(punk least of all and them booking him like he's a tough guy out there working shoot holds is a fucking joke.)

punk should be working guys twice his size fighting from underneath. get his heart and never say die spirit over. then maybe you can add a mean streak to him and make him look credible again...

...but now? if you dont think the massive ppv buys on the ufc cards he was humiliated on dont give him stink (especially the 2nd bout where he lost to guy with no profights who was brought in specifically to job to him) youre a delusional mark

unless of course your only goal is to promote him to the IWC crowd. but if thats your goal you can skip paying punk, you already have that entire fanbase watching

I think he's more to the former rassling fans who liked him.... like me. Stopped watching rassling, don't care about UFC... yeah, I did see Punk get his ass kicked there, but that didn't stop me from initially being super excited to see him come back to rassling. I know the whole drill, suspension of disbelief.

AEW hasn't done much since his signing to keep me interested, besides from signing another entire guy who isn't Punk..... but
I told myself I'd give it until at least the next PPV....

of course signing punk is exciting. no one could question that. its a major event in the wrestling world. but this approach to his booking is very wwe. ingoring something so massive as his ufc run due to how embarrassing it is the most vince thing a company could possibly do and it benefits no one.

when you build punk up as a badass, with out him having to reestablish himself first, you bury whoever he's in there with. it lacks all credibility.

you're exactly right to say it violates the suspension of disbelief (even if dismissively.) its of critical importance.

the people who arent hanging off the end of punks dick do remember it. and while you may not want to explicitly dredge it up you can still acknowledge it implicitly. an angle, booked over a year or so, of asking the question in a variety of ways "does punk still got it?" is exactly what you need to organically build his credibility back, and this is the important part, without sacrificing that talent youre desperately trying to establish to him.

Booking psychology-wise, I do wonder about the subconscious detriments doing stuff like Bryan and Nick Jackson has on fans. Bryan’s a great wrestler, but do honest to god fans of him, specifically his personality, want to see him go to a B-tier promotion to beat up guys smaller than him? It doesn’t feel rewarding as a story to me.

It made total sense in a visual way for Bryan to kick the shit out of Nick Jackson too. But doesn’t that say something about why Nick Jackson is there? At that level? And why he doesn’t get the shit kicked out of him every week?

It’s just one of those things like wrestlers pretending the camera isn’t there, or their music hitting for run-ins, or their forced verbiage that adds to this impression that just shutters immersion.

A lot of people were frothing over that match. And in terms of what was done — the execution of the moves and such — I’m sure it was. But I think a lot of internet fans don’t have their finger on the pulse of what the average fan wants as much as they all think they do.


Maybe it’s his own stuff, but it could also just be the booking. He’s over as a face, so you wouldn’t turn him heel yet. But you also don’t need him the World Title picture, so you have him slumming it with guys underneath.

I think there’s a way to make a guy you aren’t pushing into the main events interesting, and without him smiling “I’m just happy to be here” all the time. But this booking is not known for its nuance.

You know what would have been funny? If he called out Daniel Garcia for a match on Rampage, and true to form, the jobber totally owned Punk.

I agree that the UFC stuff would affect him way more than most wrestling fans realize. There’s a certain type of fan that can ignore it. There’s another type that can’t. But even if you think you can, the more he kind of just floats around makes you think more and more about it.

Punk’s always had a hype vs. reality problem too. He had this in WWE. He makes a big splash raising a stink about how great he is, or implies how great wrestling is going to be with him in a top spot. Then he gets the chance and...what changes? And I’m not even really saying that as a knock on the guy. He is talented as fuck.

So much of what this company does seems to be to further endear themselves to an audience they don’t have to endear themselves to.

does darby allen benifit from doing a favor for the guy last seen getting toyed with for 3 rounds by a fighter with no pro wins and is so underwhelming that even in vctory in front of a very large buyrate cant get booked for his second profight anywhere on planet earth?

we know, for a complete fact, that cm punk could get rolled over by any random street thug 100% of the time. he was completely out wrestled, specifically, the entire fight. from a fighter his size.

most of the audience is larger than punk. mos of the audience could wax punks ass in their own minds. probably in actuality as well even. but the mind is the only thing that matters. and if you remove the IWC and their roughly 1 million viewship everyone knows this as fact

if youre bringing punk in the goal has to be to bring in eyeballs. is it unreasonable to address this elephant? does anyone benifit from ignoring it?

and for the love of god he should NEVER use a shoot hold. it completely implodes immersion

This is cogent reasoning, but to play devil’s advocate — do they get anything out of addressing it either? I think, in their minds, they’ve done the “Does Punk still have it?” thing, which the Darby match was probably intended to be.

Does bringing up he got his ass kicked in the UFC cool him off to even that crowd as well as to the people who would already be cold on him anyway.

I don’t think his film career has helped him either. He did this movie where he got ghost cum on his face or something. I’ve heard him spoken of as a shitty actor, lol.

That’s like inviting people to remember, lol.

i say unquestionably yes.

again not explicitly. you have him work from underneath in his matches. taking densely one sided heats with the hope spots being fighting from the bottom. very short hope spots, very brief comebacks. maybe some flash pins. tons of nearfalls. establish hlw hard it is to keep him down. this plays into what his defenders chirp when you bring up his ufc run. "he showed so much heart." theyve been selling you this angle themselves for years.

you don't want to put him under every night but you dont want him looking like he's better either. and certainly not have him running around puffing his chest talking about how he's gonna beat people up.

you want him desperately fighting like his life depends on it and preferably guys who are larger than him. you structure his matches like an 80s midsouth baby. the drama should be in the struggle.

if you, perhaps wisely, dont want to mention mma (and again perhaps you shouldnt) you simply build the angle around his long absence and his age. can i still keep up? this is a tried and true angle that has worked for 70 years.

the angle is he needs to prove he's the best in the world. to himself.

and the drama is maybe he's not.

(and culminates in some major baptismal event where he slays a dragon and from there we begin anew)

a kings road approach could also translate well to establish incremental growth

"finding himself again through the adversity"

Absolutely nobody does, and they look ever worse when they have an entire stable about how MMA fighters are better than the AEW roster. They are clearly trying to make fans think Dan Lambert is shooting, but he doesnt bring up the one thing that is concrete proof that real fighters are better than fake tough guys like CM Punk?

And the happy to be here stuff he is doing is bullshit too. This dude swore up and down he would NEVER return to pro wrestling. And the argument of "oh he didnt know there would be AEW" when he said it is also a bad counterpoint.

He could have went to NJPW, Impact, ROH, or anywhere else for 5 years before AEW. He could have went to AEW at the start. He didnt, he turned them down multiple times, dismissed them and even bjried them a few times. The reason, he wanted to go back to WWE. He choose to show up on a talk show for WWE, hoping it would lead to an offer to return. His agent asked, Vince had no interest.

Fast forward a year, he had his agent ask again, no interest from WWE again. Finally he accepted it, and took Tony Khan's money.

He failed at MMA, he failed on reality TV, he failed at being an actor, he failed at being a talk show host, he failed at being a comic book, writer, and he failed at crawling back to Vince.

Even if we want to forget about all of that, this guy pretended he was above pro wrestling for 7 years. He ignored fans who wanted him to return for 7 years. Now we are just supposed to believe he really loves pro wrestling and he is happy to be there? No, he went to AEW as a last resort, and despite all the times he spoke poorly about AEW and how they do business, he was lucky enough that the owner is such a mark that he could still work him for a big money deal.

It has been like 6 weeks and Rampage ratings are already a few hundred thousand lower than they were BEFORE he returned. I use Rampage because it is where he debuted, and it is where he has had his tv matches.

I think people were willing to watch his return, but aside from the "lets see his return", most people are not able to have continued interest because of his complete lack of credibility.

That’s good stuff. :y:

I’ve got no problem with CM Punk returning to wrestling when the timing is right for him and his bank account. It is true that he turned them down, but I put that on them.

My one of my biggest pet peeves in wrestling is when wrestling promotions make a deal out of other combat sports being better than they are. The wrestlers are supposed to be legit. Got no problem with MMA stars stepping into the wrestling world, but it should be presented like they are just changing disciplines, not coming into a world where they are automatically going to kick everyone’s ass, because real fighter > pro-wrestler.

If Dan Lambert wants to do a Jim Cornette impression, he should be doing heel manager Jim Cornette, not podcast critic Jim Cornette.

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They’re doing a special hour-long Buy In at 9 PM on YouTube ahead of Rampage. The two matches:

Lee Moriarty vs Bobby Fish, and....

....BRYAN DANIELSON VS MINORU FUCKING SUZUKI :eek:

Wow, Daniel Bryan already being demoted to YouTube

R.I.P.

Quite surprised Suzuki is hanging around the U.S. still.

Figured he'd be back in Japan with G1 just about to wrap up.

Lol. I remember when Punk did his press conference after his debut and someone asked if he would wrestle on the YouTube show and Tony just widened his eyes and shook his head no.

I guess it’s a good idea to throw a big match on YouTube for more people to see occasionally though.

he's been doing a bunch of indies and having a great time from what i've seen. makes sense if it's kind of a scouting trip, too.

more people will watch this youtube show than the one they've been doing. i would respond that way too at the thought of punk wrestling on dark

Forget the Youtube show, I remember Punk saying he wanted to work with all these new young guys, like Matt "Evan Bourne" Sydal, on his 4th match in :rofl:

I don’t want to hear about how this promotion doesn’t hot-shot. Way to give away a big New Japan match too. It’ll do them no good. The bottom is falling out of this thing.

Lol, TK has done another embarrassing interview where he’s implied the WWE has come after him, he won a “war” and he tried to get “Watch Your Wrestling” over as a thing (or “WYW”). Holy desperate.

Oh, he also said he “chose” the Rampage time slot.

All this programming is hurting everyone. That and the quality of it, but the sheer amount of time you have to fill dilutes the impact of even the stuff that can be argued to work. Rampage, Elevation, Dark, Rhodes to the Top, ffs it’s too much. How many hours of content is that a week? This has been a WWE problem too, obviously.

It’s not coincidence there is less interest in wrestling as there is more wrestling available.

The ratings (albeit an archaic and flawed system) suggest this is the case.

Ain't nobody watching Elevation/Dark except the real die hards who watch everything anyways. They are definitely not being made to attract new eyes or attention.

Exactly. They are bonus pre-show matches for the live Dynamite crowds, or people who want something else to do at Universal. During 2020, it was a chance to give back to the wrestling community by getting a shitload of out of work indy wrestlers a payday at a time that indies weren't running.

Those shows have their own angles going on but very little, if any, of it carries into the main two shows. It's for the diehards and new fans aren't expected to be watching it.

TK announced Hangman vs Omega set for Full Gear, Omega finally goes to lose the AEW title

Of course not, but generating unimportant content isn’t exactly good for manufacturing an urgent image for yourself.

Fuck yes! Post PPV dynamite I believe is in Virginia. It’s time for a new sheriff in AEW town.

Wish AEW was on tonight......

It's Wednesday.... isn't it on?

I think they need to keep Omega as champ. Hangman has like zero momentum

No it's on Saturday this week and next week cause of the NHL on TNT...

I forgot it wasn't on tonight and was disappointed by a hockey game I have no interest in appearing on my TV.

It got bumped off Wednesdays for a show with a lower but more desirable demo.

Good thing they have an entire month for Hangman to pick up steam after coming back to a huge reaction and getting a huge win. He’s over as fuck with their audience and the story is still there. They shouldn’t have an issue building him back up and making the program interesting. And we’ll get cocky arrogant Omega bragging that Paige can’t beat him because he’s pinned him twice in the last year in two of the biggest matches Paige has had since being forced back into singles competition.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kenny vs Hangman<br><br>Bryan vs Mox<br><br>Inner Circle vs American Top Team<br><br>MJF vs Darby<br><br>Punk vs Wardlow<br><br>Britt vs ???<br><br>Thunder Rosa vs Jade Cargill<br><br>Christian vs Cole<br><br>Young Bucks vs Jurassic Express<br><br>Cody vs Malakai Black OR Andrade OR Miro<br><br>Luchas vs &quot;PTA&quot;</p>&mdash; HugoNexxion (@Hugo_Nexxion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Hugo_Nexxion/status/1448406381384671234?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That’s a stacked card. Rosa v Jade is prob the tbs title final. Idk how they get to Mox v Danielson but I’ll watch it. Punk v Wardlow should be fun. Hangman gonna get his moment after 2+ years. Can’t wait.

World Title Eliminator tournament final maybe?

Punk vs. Wardlow would be cool if it means MJF is involved, feuding with Punk

Ohhh that’sa good point. You’re probably right. Interesting to see if they run hangman v Danielson and if Danielson goes over or not. And to see who gets the majority of the crowd on their side. I could see Paige having a short run to keep his falling short story continuing.

Wardlow v Punk transitioning into Punk v MJF would be great. That would be a great program for both guys and if I had to choose someone to get Punk’s first loss MJF would definitely be on the short list.

LOL, this picture perfectly captures why Shad Khan gives Tony all this money to keep him occupied and away from having any responsibility in the real businesses.

You just KNOW Tony was bugging the players like an annoying 10 year old. "Oh hey Laviska, that's a cool name. You should come on Dynamite, we can call you Lavish Laviska!" "Whoa Myles Jack, you are actually Jacked! Its a Pun and you are so awesome, hey what do you think of my booking sheet?" "Carlos Hyde, that is a name that screams power! Its almost as powerful as Miro!"

Elevation/Dark is the new Jakked/Metal. You heard it here first! :MTV News sounder:

I want to thank AEW for one thing more than anything else.

I used to think that, if given the chance to see him, the average fan would care about Minoru Suzuki.

Evidence has proven that to be false. And I say that as a huge Suzuki fan. To be fair, it's not like AEW has given anyone much of a reason to care. Much like everyone else in AEW, if you didn't know who he was, you won't find out.

I was "intrigued" when he first showed up, because he was presented as a "tough guy" and did have a "tough guy look"..... but then they hot-shotted the match against Moxley right away instead of building it up.... I did enjoy the match for what it was....

But then after Mox won they made Suzuki into a whiny "l'il b****" who was complaining about his song getting cut off and about the hometown advantage..... and it became a weird thing where they were still trying to sell him as a badass tough guy but presenting him as a whining complainer.....

Yeah, it’s been a huge myth busted. He’s looked too giddy to be there, and he’s surprisingly small, or framed to be small in this environment. And the matches have reportedly been pretty bad.

The New Japan team are brilliant at covering that shit up. And it should also be noted they are also niche as fuck, even in Japan.

He's trolling EVERYONE.

Feel like Lance Archer should be getting pushed more. Thought he was bland as hell in WWE but everything I’ve seen from him in AEW has made me want to see him in the main event. He’s got a good old school look, size, personality, he can go in the ring. He should be in a better spot.

Well, he's big in Japan. So, he is always going to have divided attention.

LOL there is ZERO chance he did that on purpose.

Very careless......... Khan seems to be "erratic" lately tbh...

TK has also responded to SmackDown going commercial free in their last half-hour by saying he’s got more money than they do, so he can do it longer.

His dad has more money than they do, but he’s not able to access it all for the purposes of wrestling. Nor does WWE need to continuously go commercial free to bury them. He’s radiated the most insecure energy right now.

I feel like, if this were WWE, they would have made his arrival matter. Like, tell us who he is and why he is important. Have contracted talent who are fans and who have wrestled him put him over. And maybe put him against someone who isn't Jon "I could be a big star in a mainstream wrestling environment, but I'd rather take a light tube up my ass in some barn" Moxley. But that would just "insult the fans intelligence." You know, fans who think Suzuki is a bigger star than the Rock (and that ridiculous, even as a Suzuki fan).

Don't really see why people get worked up over everything Tony Khan does.

I think he's being very careful about what he's saying too. He's not saying, "we're going to beat WWE in the ratings", or "we're going to run them out of business" like Eric Bischoff would have. He's just saying "if you look at what they're doing, then look at us, you know we'll have the better show on Friday" - and that's hard to reasonably argue against, and also means there's no objective measure by which he could be said to have failed at that aim.

If you didn’t know who Suzuki was (most people), then you still don’t really now. He’s a small Japanese dude that the company made a big deal about without him winning a single thing who loves his own entrance music. They assume knowledge that just cannot possibly be there in their audience, which is a huge, huge mistake in television.

Because he’s the spokesperson for the company. He is also the promoter and booker, so it lends insight into the direction of things there.

I don’t think he’s careful at all. Eric Bischoff was at least a stone’s throw away from achieving what he said he would. TK is still trying to deliver on wins and losses mattering.

He said he’s looking forward to “beating” SmackDown. Now, that will change from meaning ratings to demo to AEW fan poll approval rating, but he’s picking fights that most acknowledge have made him look pretty silly — or will when he doesn’t deliver.

Perception is REALLY important. That’s why fans care about things like ratings. They help quantify a promotion’s effectiveness and success. Promotions that can’t hit their goals are going to have a harder time getting people hyped than one that does, and promoting is all about delivering on hype.

He’s setting up “LolAEW” jokes. They might take a different form, but if AEW gets slaughtered on Friday, people are going to take pause.

Who's the larger fanbase, hardcore or casual fan?

Easily casual. Hardcores are the ones being pandered to and buying tickets though (in my opinion). A lot of casuals I know will not go to live events anymore. But that’s just anecdotal. You can tell by even the WWE crowds though.

I think there’s shades of hardcore fan though. For example, there are people who will pop for an act because they’re from New Japan, but they’ve never watched New Japan.

But there are way more people with an interest in wrestling who just do not have time for this shit (either AEW or WWE).

I would say "casual" fans don't care what ratings are, or how to even read them.

They’re different arguments. Casual fans don’t even care or know about what AEW is.

That's untrue. Casual wrestling fans who get their fill from Twitter and YouTube, do watch, follow or keep up with AEW.

if you think noid is a casual you might be an idiot

He is an idiot. His FATHER has a larger net worth than Vince, but that is based on all his assets. Until he sells the Jaguars, that is $2.8 Billion that is not available to his stupid manchild son. Same for the bumper business or his soccer team.

Vince on the other hand doesnt just have his own net worth, WWE as a publicly traded company itself is valued at $4.53 Billion. Unlike Tony who has to use his daddy's money, WWE can use its actual business to run said business.

Again, Tony Khan is an idiot. He is 40 and acts like a moody teenager. The fact he said what he said proves he has no idea how businesses actually work, and would bankrupt his company if Shad decided to stop wasting his money.

AEW has grown into a much more entertaining TV show, but aside from the actual product, everything they do or say outside the hours they are on tv is embarrassing.

Ugh, that Tony Khan is such an idiot :roll: Such a moody bitch too. Sucking on daddy's tit for money. So embarrassing.

I literally thought Tony Khan was in his late 20's at most, given how he carries himself, and behaves on social media.

I know I know, like he produces 3 hours of good TV a week so we should just give him a pass on the other 165 hours he is behaving like a spoiled petulant child.

Can't wait for WWE to bring back the illegitimate child of Vince McMahon angle and reveal that his real missing son is Tony Khan.

We dont see Vince much outside the wrestling bubble, but from what we have seen over the years, he certainly is really creepy and weird too. :rofl:

Such a spoiled petulant child...probably a virgin too. Whining about muh demos and muh daddys jaguars. Wah wah Vinnie mac is poopy

I think the sock account tantrums kind of prove a point.

certainly not the one he thinks he's making

That you are a parody yourself?

Good ol' Destor and his salt of the earth ways, thinks he has it all figured out. Has strong opinions on his kids while being a drunkard and a distant father. Comical.

xrod's posting style is obnoxious and boring?