Jays only really needed one in this series. Obviously the goal is to win the series, but they've put a dent in Baltimore with what they've done so far. Obviously if Baltimore wins this series it's great for them, but moreorless their best outcome is to go 4-3 against the jays in this last stretch of games they've had.

used obviously a coupe times there, obviously.

A pitcher is not in on every defensive play. Once the ball is in play the pitcher is largely uninvolved.

Unproductive players doom the game. If your 2 or 3 hitters are pulling 0fers they're killing your chances to win.

In that one night, yes, the pitcher has a direct impact in the game he's throwing. But pitchers are not "more valuable" than position players. Position players create offense and score runs. The pitcher does not. It's a working relationship. Some pitchers are more valuable than everyday players and vice versa.

To try and blanket statement it is silly. Are you saying Mike Trout is not the Angels most valuable player? Their most important player?

I forgot you are unable to read. On the day pitcher A is pitching and Everyday Player B is playing, player A has more of am effect/is more valuable than player B. And player B is only on defensive plays that involve him and most are routine.

You just said if the number 2 AND 3 hitters are pulling 0ferz then the chances of winning is slim. If the pitcher (1 player) throws a terrible game then that game is doomer. 1 to 2 players. This averages out because the starting pitcher only plays 1 of every 5 games. To suspend a starting pitcher per starts is retarded due to everything I said.

Maybe you will understand this way.

Game 7 of the World Series. Arrieta is pitching and Trout is playing. Who is going to effect the game more and cause their team to win/lose the last game of the season?

If your starting pitchers can't keep you in the game, your every day players can hit you 6 thousand homeruns and you aren't going to win.

as proven by mike wright lastnight. They were putting pressure on sanchez who bent but never broke... wright fell apart and the jays took over.

But then I guess you look at Felix Hernandez during the lean years with Seattle and wasn't he having an era nearly under 2 and finishing the season below .500 cuz the rest of the team was so shit.

I say every day players and pitching staff are of equal value. I think personally, to have a competitive team, your hitting, starting pitch and relief pitching need to have at least 2/3 elements working for them.

That was an entire team hitting like shit for him. Not just 1 player. It took the entire team to suck that bad to cause him to lose games.

Overall, they are equal in value because they play everyday.

Which is why they should all be suspended the same amount of games instead of making a starter pitcher lose 5 starts instead of 5 games.

being suspended for 2 starts would have sufficed though, so "14 games" to ensure it.

5 starts is 5 games for a starting pitcher. He's not involved in the other 4 games he'd be suspended for. How is it fair to impact a team losing an everyday player for 5 games but losing a starting pitcher for one? That makes no sense.

And no. A pitcher is not more valuable than the players behind him. Dale said it best that they're equal in value, though that's going to vary based on the talent of the player. Now you're saying they're equal value, after trying to say pitchers are more valuable. Which one is it?

And I'm still wondering if you think Mike Trout is not the most valuable player on his team.

That makes sense. But having a pitcher miss 5 starts because an everyday player misses 5 is stupid.

He said an entire team has to suck ass to make Fenix lose games. Not 1 player.

I never said Trout was not the most valuable. You are 100% missing the point.

Seriously, read what I am saying. On the given day a starting pitcher is starting he is more valuable. Over a 5 day period they are equal since the starting pitcher only pitches once.

Pitchers are more valuable than position players. This is your argument. And it's not true.

I get what you're saying in theory. The starting pitcher does have a larger impact on the outcome of the game. Obviously. But it doesn't mean they're more valuable. Those are two different things.

The argument is having a starting pitcher miss 5 starts instead of 5 games is stupid because of 5he impact they have on the game.

You are just changing the argument because you do not like a certain word I used.

I'm not arguing based in what I do or don't like. Your word choice was poor. You said "more valuable" and that's not true. Bigger impact? Sure. Bigger role? Sure. More valuable? No. That's a blanket statement that doesn't work. Every player provides a different amount of value.

A position player missing 5 games and being replaced with a bench player is not the same as a starter missing one game. The team losing the suspended player is not receiving the same punishment.

The Angels would hurt more losing Mike Trout for 5 games than they would losing Garrett Richards for one start/game. Because Trout is their most valuable player. Richards, and his 4 starting brethren, are not.

To which I ask, who is losing out more, Baltimore for losing their best player for a week or Kansas City losing their 3rd or 4th best pitcher for one game?

You keep bringing up Trout. Not me. I am talking players of equal talent. You want to talk about a superstar and a average player.

Of course because the suspension in question involves a superstar (Machado) and an average player (Ventura).

I've already conceded that I'm theory you're not wrong but given the context the suspensions are not equal.

2 runs for the Blue Jays so far thru 7. Told you

Also Ventura got his suspension recuced to 8 games and start it tonight..Manny should at least get hus 4 to 3.

Update Manny took his suspension and starts tomorrow

Jays definitely had their chances yesterday.

Jays struggle against Gallardo (Whom I wish they picked up in the offseason), and Baltimore's bullpen is very good. Jays need to strike early for the most part to get to Baltimore.

OFFICIAL SUPERWIN LIST

4/3: Francisco Liriano
4/6: Kenta Maeda
4/14: Jason Hammel
4/18: John Lackey
4/19: Jason Hammel (2)
4/22: Jeff Samardzija
5/1: Clayton Kershaw
5/3: Jake Arrieta
5/11: Noah Syndergaard
5/15: Jose Fernandez
5/15: Dan Straily
5/18: Travis Wood
5/21: Matt Cain
5/22: Madison Bumgarner
5/22: Jerad Eickoff
5/24: Jason Hammel (3)
5/24: Jake Odorizzi
6/2: Madison Bumgarner (2)
6/9: Jorge De La Rosa
6/11: Tanner Roark
6/18: Chris Hatcher

As much as I hate to say it I'm quite certain that the Mets' hopes of winning the division are already fucking dead.

I knew the Nats would be a good team but I never expected them to be THIS good. Yes there is plenty of season to go but since the six division format was implemented over 90% of teams with a 6+ game lead in their division at this point in the season have held on to win it. That bodes well for the Nats, Giants, and Rangers who are all above that threshold. Oh and of course the Cubs who had theirs in the bag a long time ago.

And really as I look at the Mets' schedule, the only bad team they play between now and the break is the Braves. And they just lost their series to them this weekend with a 4 game set against them next weekend. They also have the Royals, Cubs, Marlins, and 7 games against the Nats before the ASG. If they play the way they have lately through that stretch they could be sub-.500 by the break.

They have looked like ass for the better part of a month and a half and are only 5 games over .500 because of their hot end to April. The starting pitching is still there minus Harvey but they can't hit anything other than solo HRs, they have no speed, and their bullpen is coming back to earth after a great start.

In the two Wild Card era they should stay in the mix for a postseason spot most of the season even if their recent slide continues but there is no reason at all to expect a Cespedes-esque trade this year. They gutted the farm to go for it all last year and unfortunately they fell just short of a title. It was a worthwhile gamble because 2015 was such an incredible ride, but there is a very real chance that this group of pitchers won't get to October again. Not with the offense they have now they won't.

Red Sox place Rusney Castillo on waivers. Who's due $10.5 mil. this season and about $50 mil. going to 2019. Looking like nobody's gonna grab him.

Yankees are off the hook if Boston just gives up on him. Doesn't make the Kei Igawa signing look so bad.

Dale Scott got smashed in the balls and had to leave the game, game is currently delayed while Dan Ayasonia (sp) puts on the home plate ump gear.

Jays falling apart

Meh. Stroman was pathetic. Not much you can do when your starting pitcher comes in and gives up 7 runs and can't get through the third inning.

Yeah, by "Jays" I mostly meant Stroman....

The East has solved him..... he's going to have to make some adjustments [/buckmartinezpattabler]

I hate to say I told you so lol

Jays put up 6 runs today.

I sincerely doubt that, good sir.

Never really understand opposing team fans who are naturally antagonistic and are unable to look at the game objectively. What did you tell us?

Jays pitching today cost them, not any inability to get runs. Baltimore certainly had something to do with that, given that 1-9 in the order can do damage. You aren't winning many games when your starter gets shelled for 7 runs before the end of the fourth inning.

Looking forward to the next time they play tho. Been a good season series so far, and not much bullshit between the 2 teams.

Wasnt enough though..

:| you are really odd

Blue Jays score 21 runs in 3 games still lose 2 out of 3

I think I'm checking out of Mets baseball for a week or so. Getting swept at home by a 100 loss Braves team is bad enough. Scoring 4 runs total in said series and getting fucking 1 hit today is just a joke.

Reminds me how Baltimore lost 3 of 4 in Toronto after scoring a boatload of runs.

Jesus that hat is savage.

:D Walk-off win by the Red Sox today. Needed that after how abysmal the series with the White Sox became.

was an awful game tho, i had the misfortune of watching it.

I'm still so confused how the Jays were able to swindle Oakland into giving up J.D. for Brett Lawrie. That guy is such a dink lol

Forgot to say Happy Rod Beck Day yesterday.

So happy belated RBD!

How's David Price working out up in Boston

..oh..

shit

:y: Another comeback win in a row for the Sox.

Wow, Jose Reyes is a Met again. I'm torn on this one. I really am, and the early indication I get is that a lot of Met fans feel the same way.

From a baseball standpoint, I can't see any downside to it. The Mets are paying him virtually no money as Colorado is on the hook for the remaining 2 years and $35 million or so on his contract. Reyes has expressed a willingness to go to the minor leagues to get into game shape and, moreover, acquaint himself with second base, third base, and even the outfield to try to groom himself for a super-utility role. He's nowhere near the player he once was (aka the player that made him one of the best players in franchise history), but he's not expected to be a savior and frankly even a diminished Reyes is an upgrade to the current Met roster.

But on the other side of the coin, the guy was arrested for accused domestic abuse via grabbing his wife by the throat. Yes, he's legally in the clear because his wife declined to cooperate as a witness leading to the charges being dropped. And he served the suspension handed out by MLB, so he has the right to continue his career. But there is no getting around the fact that the Mets are going to take a big PR hit merely for signing Reyes, just as the Yankees did in trading for Chapman. And just personally it is very difficult for me to pull for a player connected to something as deplorable as what transpired.

Reyes has said all the right things in accepting his suspension and has pledged to donate a portion of his income to charities assisting victims of domestic violence. The Mets had a 12-year relationship with Reyes and from what I've read about Sandy Alderson over the years I do not think they would have brought him back if they had concerns that he hadn't straightened his life out. Most importantly though, his wife reportedly reached out to the Mets as soon as the Rockies released him because she wanted to see him go back "home". That last part alone is what will keep me trying to be optimistic about the whole thing, even if I'm still mostly conflicted.

Don't forget Nimmo is coming up and Conforto is going down.

Yes he fucked up but we all have had at some point. He is donating money and trying to make things right. Just like Vick.

Jays win 10-8 in a shootout with the White Sox. Lost lastnight 3-2. They win the shootouts for the most part but are fucking awful in low scoring games. In fucking furiating. Seriously want this team to be able to win a game 2-1, but I don't think it's possible.

Sox hit 7 home runs..... ridic..... and Jays still somehow managed to win....

Maybe Damian Rey can stop being salty about pitchers hitting...because the Padres are now on the Superwin board!

4/3: Francisco Liriano
4/6: Kenta Maeda
4/14: Jason Hammel
4/18: John Lackey
4/19: Jason Hammel (2)
4/22: Jeff Samardzija
5/1: Clayton Kershaw
5/3: Jake Arrieta
5/11: Noah Syndergaard
5/15: Jose Fernandez
5/15: Dan Straily
5/18: Travis Wood
5/21: Matt Cain
5/22: Madison Bumgarner
5/22: Jerad Eickoff
5/24: Jason Hammel (3)
5/24: Jake Odorizzi
6/2: Madison Bumgarner (2)
6/9: Jorge De La Rosa
6/11: Tanner Roark
6/18: Chris Hatcher
6/25: Drew Pomeranz

My stance will not change on an anomaly!

I was however waiting for the super win.

Os swept a doubleheader with the Rays giving them 10 straight losses..

Jays face Chris Sale today. Hopefully Stroman doesn't give up 3,000 runs in the first 3 innings. I think he'll get his groove back, but I don't think it'll be today in the bang box.

Home runs by team since 2012 through right now today
Orioles – 974
Blue Jays – 900
Yankees – 823
Rockies – 795

Also the Os have 51 hr in June. June record is 55 hrs and any month record is 58. Os have 2 games in SD and 1 in Seattle left this month

So you are embracing the "we only hit homers" mantra for the Orioles?

It's got em 2 playoff appearances and an AL East Division win in 4+ years after nothing for 14 years

#dongcity

Through 75 games On 2014 they were 40-35 1.5 gb in 2nd now they're 45-30 4g up on Boston

Stroman didn't throw a terrible game. Just happened to be going against Sale.

It'll be interesting to see what the Jays do with Sanchez who sits at 97 ip with a supposed 160 ip limit. They say he's going to bullpen..but he's their best starter

They'd be smart to continue to start him. I've always liked the idea of a guy going five then giving another guy 2 or 3 innings a week as a long reliever, but not a mop up guy. Not sure what the Jays depth chart is but it could work to help get them needed innings but limit the workload.

Your bitterness directly resulted in the Padres giving a Superwin right back to the Reds the very next day. Hope you're happy.


4/3: Francisco Liriano
4/6: Kenta Maeda
4/14: Jason Hammel
4/18: John Lackey
4/19: Jason Hammel (2)
4/22: Jeff Samardzija
5/1: Clayton Kershaw
5/3: Jake Arrieta
5/11: Noah Syndergaard
5/15: Jose Fernandez
5/15: Dan Straily
5/18: Travis Wood
5/21: Matt Cain
5/22: Madison Bumgarner
5/22: Jerad Eickoff
5/24: Jason Hammel (3)
5/24: Jake Odorizzi
6/2: Madison Bumgarner (2)
6/9: Jorge De La Rosa
6/11: Tanner Roark
6/18: Chris Hatcher
6/25: Drew Pomeranz
6/26: Anthony DeSclafani

Mets have a 4-0 lead with their ace on the mound. End up losing 11-4. Then it comes out that Syndergaard and Matz BOTH are dealing with bone spurs that could require surgery and would keep them each out for a few months.

:|

2015 was the year for this team. Back to getting the type of luck with injuries that only the Mets have.

Honestly I guess I should be glad it's just bone spurs for Thor (he is denying anything is wrong but he's not one to make excuses, multiple team reports suggest he is hurt) and not Tommy John. But let's get real. He's going to need Tommy John eventually. Maybe not this year. Maybe not next year. But it's going to happen. It happens with virtually every young pitcher in baseball nowadays and it's practically a rite of passage.

I actually have to commend Sandy for using his two first round picks on college starting pitchers this year. They shouldn't take too long to be big league ready. If you're going to build your entire franchise around young pitchers you need to keep stockpiling it because guys can get hurt at a moments notice.

Stroman is capable of pitching shutout innings against great teams. Right now he is not though. So 4 ER in 5 innings against the sox when Sale is pitching is just not acceptable.

Chavez and Floyd are both capable, if not inconsistent.

Jays are in a rough spot right now, without a dominant lefty out of the pen. Drew Storen I think sealed his fate last night in just a hideous performance. It sucks, because I like him and the guy is clearly good, just doesn't have faith in his own stuff right now.

Eddie with two home runs and Devon Travis hitting well is very nice to see. Too bad about the rest of it.

Uhhh....what?

But yes Stroman is more than capable. He's also a groundball pitcher and he's pitched into some bad luck. His expected era when factoring out defense is about 1.5 runs lower than his actual era. His walk % is up a bit, but there's not a dramatic change to his homerun rate/homerun per fly ball rate, strikeout rate or line drive rate.

So the walks are coming back on him a bit but overall I think it's just bad luck for a guy who gets a lot of and pitches to ground balls.

???

If you were confused about my drew storen statement I wasn't calling him a lefty lol, just my stream of consciousness. I don't know how much longer the jays will want to keep him with how thongs have gone this year for him. Guess it depends if he can rebound fast, as he had been pitching much better.

I think you meant to quote Ruien because what you quoted me saying wasn't related to Storen or Stroman lol.

But I agree with your assessment.

Jays won in the most Jays way possible tonight, 14-9. Lol that's how you get your first win in Colorado. Both teams were fucking awful.

Orioles are at 54 homers in June with 2 to play. 1 short off the June record and 4 short of the record of 58 for any month which is held by the 88 Orioles and 99 Mariners.

They've got 123 home runs in 76 games which is on pace for 262 which would be 2 short of the 97 Mariners (who the Orioles beat in the playoffs by the way..) for the overall season record. They were on pace to only hit 260 about 2 weeks ago so they're gaining on the record pace.

5 players with 13 homers
Trumbo 22
Davis 19
Machado 18
Jones 16
Schoop 13

7 with at least 9
Wieters 9
Alvarez 9

7 players with 20 homers would tie the AL record. 5 players with 30 homers has never happened before ever. Outside shot of 3 with 40 which has never happened before either. I don't think Manny can hit 40..

Trumbo #23 for 55 and the the June record

Gallardo has 2 hits and a run scored up 7-0..but thats not a Super win contender is it? Has to be an RBI..

Brett Cecil & Franklin Morales on tap to return to Jays, so that's 2 lefties coming back for them..... if Cecil can get back to his same form as last season, he'd be invaluable.....

He's totally capable of it, but jeeeez was he bad earlier this year.

MLB is probably sweating the fact that there aren't any close divisional races just a little bit.

Just the first half of the season hot shot.

National League is pretty much decided. Only 7 teams above .500 and 3 of them are only 4 games over .500.

Nationals and Mets for the East unless you think Marlins are for real. None of them playing well so it's possible this could change if one of them gets hot. Giants and Cubs are walking away with the divisions. Cubs are 4-6 last 10 still up 10.5 games. Dodgers are the Giants only real threat..

American league is a little bit less settled..but..Houston is 9-1 last 10 and still 10 games behind the Rangers. Cleveland and their winning streak at least have 2 potential teams to contend with in the Tigers and Royals. Might be the only real division race I think..but maybe Cleveland is for real?

And of course the Orioles..Red Sox just lost 2 of 3 to Rays after the Rays got swept by 3 1st place teams in 11 games (giants Indians orioles) which is proof enough for me the Red Sox aren't contenders. Blue Jsys..meh..And the Yankees are a sub .500 diaaster

wouldn't you say that perhaps... they (The Orioles) are peaking too early? :lol:

and lol good teams lose series' to bad teams all the time. Just depends if you're slumping or not. You're no fun to shoot the shit with, because you only see things through the eyes of a total homer.

lol Daniel Murphy has hit 4 home runs in 9 games against the Mets. He's also already tied his career high with 14 home runs this year.

I was all for moving on from him even after his insane NLDS/NLCS. Seemed like a classic case of a guy just going apeshit in the national spotlight. No reason to expect that to become his new norm.

Nope. It was. He's legitimately one of the best hitters in baseball right now for our division rival and I'm already willing to say it's one of the biggest fuck ups in Mets history.

Too bad Supreme isn't here to explain why it was ok that the Reds suck at baseball so much that they felt compelled to throw at one of the games rising superstars who also refused to show up the Reds by doing a curtain call the day before.

In 2014 the Os went 53-27 after June 30rh for a .662 win %. Since June 1st this year this year are 19-8 or .704
If they just play .662 they win 103 games

Lol I wasn't being serious you Wang.

But what do they do if those thunderbats slow down a bit? Can't rely much on their pitching can they?

Orioles have scored 10+ runs in 3 straight never done it 4 games in Baltimore (st Louis Brown's did it in 1922)

ur not answering my question, sir.

If the Orioles pitching rounds out, with their bullpen being as good as I've seen it, they're definitely world series contenders.

For the Jays to contend, they either need Brett Cecil to have a total turn around come his return, or they need a big acquisition in the bullpen to where I would use either Troy Tulowitzki or Jose Bautista as trade bait (for something OTHER than just a lefty in the bullpen but that would be a requisite part of the deal.)

Fucking love Jason Grilli though. Such a useful strikeout guy. Also like Joe Biagini's turn around for the past few games. he was hard done by in Colorado with some bad defence, but he was drawing a lot of soft contact. I don't know if he's longed for the majors, but he definitely serves a nice purpose for now. And he's an amazing interview.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">3 series wins in a row? Drink it in, maaaaaaaan.<br><br>FINAL: White Sox 6, Twins 5</p>&mdash; Chicago White Sox (@whitesox) <a href="https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/748625728921448448">June 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Good Guys scored 5 times. 5 times. 5 times. 5 times. 5 times in the 6th.<br><br>We can dig it.<a href="https://t.co/IAQ7CVjtm1">https://t.co/IAQ7CVjtm1</a></p>&mdash; Chicago White Sox (@whitesox) <a href="https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/748378821192081408">June 30, 2016</a></blockquote>
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YEA NOW THEY'RE GOOD AGAIN, THEY BEAT THA TWINZ!

The Orioles should work in a New Day Booty Os reference sometime..Adam Jones is a big WWE fan

3 games to go, but the Mets showing why they, Giants and Nats are a serious threat to the cubs. Cubs having problems in close games now too. So far their problems are they cant handle a dominant starter who can work within the strike zone and dont play well in close games. Playoff baseball will require them to figure those two things out fast. You cant count on running into another broken down Cardinals team in October.