We will make wrestling great again!

I saw the thing about 500,000 Max viewers. WBD already put something out that the most watched NBA game on Max was a Lakers vs Mavericks game. There was 50,000 people who watched that game on Max. So "according to sources", AEW is 10 times more popular than the NBA, because that makes sense.

I said it before, AEW is a nothing more than a Larp of a good business. It is all smoke and mirrors. AEW could get cancelled from TV and Tony Khan would still pretend AEW is doing the best they ever have.

I don’t know how we can possibly make wrestling great again when they’ve left Chad Gable off the WrestleMania card again.

El Gran Americano might wrestle though

It’s only the metrics you can’t see that are doing well. Something that dawned on me way too late was that the PPV estimates we get could be completely made up. Just blatant lies.

Tony Khan could be a flat-out, bald-faced liar. The kid that says he didn’t eat all the chocolate chip cookies with the evidence still smeared across his face. He may not have even read all the Observers he’s claimed to. He might just say things.

I’ve been impressed with the newcomer. I’m looking forward to his match with Rey Mysterio at Mania, but I do wish Chad Gable was getting his first singles opportunity at the grandest state of them all.

I feel like Nick Aldis is going to punish Randy Orton for that RKO come Wrestlemania, which I heard this year might actually fall on Rusev Day.

Is it bald-daced liar? I swear ive been saying bold-faced my whole life...terrifying

Probably a regional expression.

Every day is Rusev Day, so I think it’s a safe bet.

So Raws ratings have continued to drop. Theyre now at the bottom of netflixs top 10 which means if they drop below their current 2.7mil they will fall completely out of the published data and we wont get any updates on how the show is fairing.

Similarly the finaly recertificatied Neilson just released a new skew. They put out the top 100 shows. Raw didnt crack that list.

Im curious how a show locked by streaming drums in new viewers. They dont have lead ins or commercial opportunities or channel surfing.

Is the only thing it can actually do is hemorrhage?

And if new york fails in this new market what does that the industry as a whole...

So Cena really is ruining wrestling.

Maybe the best they can hope for is people happen to scroll by on Netflix while it's on and click on it, but realistically how many people are going to do that?

I mean, people do browse Netflix looking for shit to watch so it's kinda like channel surfing. Though I don't know if the live show starts playing while you are stopped there like the show would just play on your TV channel (I do not watch RAW live).

But the data already shows that that is not happening now so I don't think the odds are great that someone new goes "hey let's watch this."

maybe the actual best they can hope for is to stay at like 2.5 million?

what do we think is the lowest number they can hit before Netflix says hey fix this shit?

I think the current numbers would lead to netflix taking the low year option and dropping raw so for my money theyre there now. And they have no card to play. Cena is the biggest draw you could muster and its not working.

This seems very dire to me

You mean the young generation with thousands of choices at their fingertips aren't deliberately clicking on and watching a weekly 3 hour show?!

And that the older generation who would actually still have and watch cable TV haven't followed over to Netflix?!

Who could have seen this coming?!

Netflix tracking is weird. To be considered a live viewer, you have to stream every second live. So if you start at 8:01pm, you are not considered a live viewer. If you pause the broadcast and come back 1 minute later, you are not considered a live viewer. If you rewind 30 seconds to see something again, you are no longer considered a live viewer.

So all in all, who knows, but it is still WAY more than the 40,000 that watch on Dynamite Max :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Lol, WWE is fine. Netflix just put out a statement saying they are looking to expand WWE programming and/or monetize it more thoroughly. Was the 2.6 million number viewers or homes? If it’s homes, then you have basically the same viewership as USA Network, which is what you would have expected, with 50% or so of the audience being international. They’re not all watching live because the world doesn’t run on US time.

The Netflix deal is a global deal. It’s about carrying WWE in ALL their international markets. They’ve got the backlog and contempory major events (outside Saturday Night’s Main Event). The NBC Universal, CW Network, Tubi and YouTube deals are about getting WWE content out there to people without Netflix. You also have social media and their celebrity tie-ins/special appearances for that.

Do US fans realize that in, say, Canada, Netflix doesn’t only carry Raw, but SmackDown, NXT, WrestleMania, Money in the Bank, SummerSlam and every WWE PPV ever? It sometimes gets lost in the sauce when Meltzer marks freak out because Raw isn’t getting 10 million viewers live for Raw every week.

You’ve then also got Netflix’s business model, which is subscription-based. While it would be groovy if WWE fans watched every second of every Raw ever, they really only need them to pay for the service. If subscribers are being linked to WWE interest then it doesn’t really matter. Signing up to Netflix is like a gym membership in many respects — they don’t expect every member of the gym to use it every day or go to every class.

WWE are so confident in their deals that they are using the time to promote their auxiliary and even independtly operated adjacent programming. AAA has been a focus on Raw, SmackDown and NXT lately. This week’s NXT was basically an infomercial for TNA Against All Odds.

The doom and gloom doesn’t track. It’s too old school to be reacting week-to-week with a US-only focus.

TLDR: WWE is ok, guys.

See, I didn’t even know that about counting live viewers. If that’s the case, I don’t count as a live viewer. I’m not watching Raw at 10am on a Tuesday. I don’t watch SmackDown live on Saturday either. I’ll jump in when the show is far along enough that I skip all the breaks. So I wouldn’t count as a live viewer for anything, and I am basically catching everything.

I am skeptical that even 40k watch Dynamite on MAX. I do love how some of the sickos out there try to imply that the WWE deal is so bad like if AEW went to Netflix it would be doing a larger audience. I also love the Meltzer maths on how bad the Netflix/WWE deal is, but somehow WBD/AEW is cooking.

Its not but the fact that AEW has been brought into a conversation that has nothing to do with it shows this isnt a good faith rebuttle

Wrestling can die. The total viewers and total products can reach zero. Being the king rat doesnt matter if the ship sinks.

i do think long form content is being desired more. Podcasts run hours. Youtube favors ling form content (more ads per click.) obviously theyve hemorrhaged over a million viewers in an alarming period and the trend hasnt slowed so this three year deal doesnt give them a lot of run way to turn things around.

Oh stop it, you’re better than that. This is the ratings thread. It’s not “talk about whatever Destor wants to.”

WWE is fine. You have your response. Wrestling can die. I’ve seen AEW do its best to try and kill it for about 6 years now while people scream about how amazing it is that they’re around. WWE are actually doing their best to help others grow. TNA, AAA, WWE ID. New Japan might be soon (and they need it). They’re actually trying to serve up alternatives to their glossiest product.

You can look at the live attendance to get another gauge of their health. They’re not exactly hurting when it comes to public perception right now. They have their 1st tier shows, where tickets are going for hundreds of dollars — packages into the thousands. Then you’ve got your 2nd tier, where cheapest tickets recently available were $40. Then you’ve got your 3rd tier which they are establishing.

I admittedly don't know a ton about TV ratings and whatnot, but losing a million+ viewers in less than six months seems PrettyBad

It was 6th most watched Netflix show globally. They got 2.6 million views. That’s not the same as viewers.

33% of the audience that was there for night 1 on netflix is gone. Its a significant issue. Theyve entered more markets as the months has rolled on and theyre gaining nothing for it. Theyre hemorrhaging views each week. They arent dropping out of the listings because bigger shows are entering their numbers are actively diminishing.

There's a hard bottom. AEW brings in the core wrestling fan and really nothing else. Wrestling ratings cant actually be lower than what they put out. Obviously wrestling is unsustainable at that rating and is fully support by money from other ventures and isnt organically operational. We all know that. But slap any wrestling on any national channel and it will pull those numbers.

WWE i think has a much higher floor. There's a significant number of people who wont watch anything else but will watch ANYTHING wwe puts out. Where that bottom is who knows but but the math says we're on our way to finding out.

The issue is netflix didnt pay that kind of money for a loss leader. Netflix is notorious for cutting there losses on SUCCESSFUL shows just because statics say after x number of seasons views TEND to drop. There's no reality where they keep paying for something thats shrinking. They never do that.

Its a significant issue and youd need AEW derangement syndrome to not know it.

Destor proving why he is the best rassling poster. Only one with true objectivity across both boards.

Destor is a great poster, but he is not objective. Everyone has their biases. He has some great takes, but he also believes that Montreal was a work and CM Punk was the one trying to hurt wrestling in the AEW drama. He criticized the WWE/FOX deal in much the same way he is this Netflix one. And if he gets too rattled by an argument back, he says it’s because the other party can’t be objective.

Which successful shows has Netflix cancelled? I did a quick search and got nothing, but I haven’t followed it too attentively.

It’s been explained to you how your read on modern data gathering metrics is possibly skewered. Going into new markets isn’t necessarily going to help them live — and may not even be the goal if they’re more concerned with expanding Netflix in those markets. How many different accounts access them each week across a subscription month? Internationally, how does SmackDown, NXT and PLE balance this?

You freak out over every media rights deal, dude. It’s got nothing to do with anyone else’s derangement syndrome.

Dynamite is doing so well on Max that it grew an entirely new company!

This week was the most attended Raw in Arizona history. 2.7 million views so far. #8 globally. Netflix prolly kicking themselves.

Money in the Bank only in the Top 10 in 19 countries.

497k for AEW’s Summer Blockbuster this week. Absolutely cooking.

Would USA (or another network) take WWE back if/when Netflix tells them to fuck off?

I agree there are people who will watch WWE weekly, either out of habit or because they genuinely enjoy what's on there. For a time, the company will be able to count on whatever those numbers are. But will a network, after seeing such a steep drop in viewers in a short time, be willing to pay a bunch of money for that?

Maybe the better question is: How significant will the drop in money be from their last TV deal?

Id say absolutely. Traditional TV is desperate and will do anything. The issue is they have less money to spend everyday. The contracts WWE is paying out these days are insane and couldnt be honored without the streaming money. Theyd have to scale way back

Yeah, traditional TV craves live sports (or sports entertainment) as it is one of the only things that actually drive people to watch traditional live TV

And the ad companies know that eyeballs p ads are way higher on live tv. Show type shows are wayched in delay at a much higher volume. Theres no way they would get zero traditional tv offers. Just what do they look like is the question.


Market is shifting fast. A few years is almost a lifetime in the current environment

SmackDown #9 in Australia on a Tuesday (same day as Raw). I’d gather that people are watching it after the weekend and maybe after word of mouth about Punk/Cena and maybe even what Truth is up to. Getting it in before Raw (which was #3 on Wednesday).

USA has WWE now. They had the leverage to secure an NBC/Peacock deal from it too. USA wanted a third hour for SmackDown.

Netflix is not likely to tell them to fuck off lol. WWE are good at what they do. They’re content machines. Netflix let them put EVOLVE on Tubi and Worlds Collide on YouTube. They have content on broadcast TV, cable, free streaming and premium streaming. They have libraries to target different audiences through different mechanisms. They have the option of taking everything exclusive for big offers or diversifying their content for different revenue streams.

Raw only got 2.9 million views this past week. Top 10 in only 16 countries. In Canada, SmackDown was only at #9.

Tony Khan is out giving interviews saying their ratings on TBS are up year over year, which is easily proven incorrect since people can just look that up and see he is lying lol.

It’s weird, because the act of lying about it suggests that he believes the perception of AEW is one of growth — but the reality is one of decline — so at what point does the actual reality become important?

Guys, 736k for Dynamite this week. That Netflix deal not looking so hot right now.

SmackDown was 4th in the Top 10 today.

Lol, Dave Meltzer did an “unscentific” poll (his words) to measure AEW’s success on MAX. Meaning he asked the sickos who subscribe to his newsletter what they do and applied it to all fans. This is where rubbish like Dynamite having 500k comes from.

Basically exactly my reaction to Tony's bullshit ratings :rofl:

They got like 613k this week. Easy come, easy go. Dave Meltzer melted down. Threatened to block someone who asked for evidence when Dave said Dynamite is doing far better than NXT if you add the Max numbers (which he also claims he doesn’t know).

And we have a Dave Meltzer meltdown over the AEW numbers! He amalgamated and listed all the shows that did better than AEW by his own metrics, including HGTV. People have respectfully questioned why he does this so vigilantly with AEW m instead of just giving the data and he’s losing his mind lashing out saying people can’t understand English and claiming he applies the same standards to everyone. :lol:

It’s more entertaining than that shitty show, which got 584k for the 300th episode spectacular.

As Dave is going after people’s grasp on English, he is butchering the language himself. I’m starting to think I might be making fun of a senile man. He’s still being purposely sneaky though.

An example: Dave told someone he always lists the “competition.” He’s talking about shows that got a higher 18-49 demo. Technically anything is competition. He’s using “competition” euphemistically to avoid saying they beat Dynamite.

So it took 2 weeks to lose the 150,000 viewers they got from Grand Slam? Sounds like a company doing the best shows they ever have done (according to Tiny Khan). Classic AEW LOL

AEWompwahhhhhhhhhh

sean rossssssaaaaaaaaap

Oh it didn’t even last 2 weeks, if you could even call it a spike.

SmackDown was #2 in Australia on Netflix today. I don’t check it vigilantly, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it so high.

1.4 million people watched SNME on NBC. It was #1 in the archaic key demo. I wonder if Dave Meltzer is going to credit them with that and if he’s going to account for people watching on streaming like he does for Dynamite and MAX?

SNME has 587k YouTube views as well.

Meltzer is now saying AEW made All In so long to purposely counter program Saturday Night's Main Event. Not that AEW moved the start time to 3:00pm because they didn't want to go head to head with SNME, but that they put on a 6 hour PPV to show they are not afraid of WWE.

I shit you not lol

WWE got more viewers than any episode of Dynamite has ever gotten with a 58 yr old that the internet says sucks. If they had 10k to each show, they would have sold more tickets over the weekend too.

AEW needs to fear for its own house more than anything. WWE are still going light and easy on them. But AEW’s media rights partner is splitting into 2 and throwing them to the one likely to declare bankruptcy. If they want to keep poking the bear, they’re going to find out pretty quick.

Dave has acknowledged that the NBC numbers don’t include Peacock, but no word yet on if he is going to add 30%.

Did SNME broadcast live on youtube, or after the fact, or was this some Youtube TV thing?

It's on regular YouTube here in Australia and I imagine anywhere else where NBC is not a thing. I generally get the link from the WWE Australia X account.

It's on regular YouTube here in Australia and I imagine anywhere else where NBC is not a thing. I generally get the link from the WWE Australia X account. Unsure if it's region locked.

588k for Dynamite. Dave is claiming that everyone is watching on MAX and it’s preposterous to think otherwise.

Thank you Ben Rodrigues

How could it be possible that after the greatest, most successful North American PPV of all time, that Dynamite could have dropped 10% of their viewing audience from last week? Wasn't Hangman supposed to restore the feelings?!?!?

It’s almost like going from one terrible champ to another was a bad idea.

Evolution was #1 in Australia at some point. Raw has been in the global top ten 28 out of 28 weeks.

Collision got 348k. For those who believe in fairies and the 18-49 demo, they got a 0.06. It never scraped above 100k. Thank goodness this doesn’t count the 800k watching on MAX.

612k for Dynamite. The quarter-hours tell an interesting story this week. There’s a noticeable dip in the middle of the show for the World Title match. They usually get a top of the hour bump. Hangman Page does not work.

I love how it took Tony 2 years to come up with his big idea, which was to go back to the empty headed dumb fuck Adam Page, like he wasn't made to look like a total jackass the last 2 years after dropping the title.

This dude drank blood and committed arson, but yeah, lets make him the babyface champion LOL

If it were any sort of long-term plan, they wouldn’t have done any of that. This has just been thrown together because…reasons lol.