Gotta love old school GMs who make baseball moves in a vacuum. Would have to take a look at their roster, but this sounds like a strange move.

Who the fuck wouldn't like Zack Greinke on their team?

And while he's worth the money, the team now is essentially Greinke, Goldschmidt, Pollock and...uh....some other guys. That's like 15 wins there, but considering their farm isn't great and the team is on the wrong end of the win curve it's a rather bizarre move indeed.

Cueto is now in the driver seat. He's the last of legit aces on the market. Time to open an off shore account Mr Cueto.

it's really not. Their offense is pretty great and young and has 2 solid foundational pieces with Goldschmidt and Pollock plus other young quality young players like Ender Inciarte (who I think is overrated personally, but was worth a shade over 5 wins with an equal split between offensive and defensive value), David Peralta, whose offense was worth 4 wins, and Nick Ahmed, who had almost a 3 dWAR, even if he didn't hit a fucking lick.

The pitching on the other hand was consistently a fucking tire fire. Only one guy (Brad Ziegler) was even worth 2 wins and only 4 more were worth even 1(including Patrick Corbin and his half season return from TJ.)

Now they're looking at a full season of Corbin (who's a really legit #2) plus Greinke, developing young guys on the staff (Robbie Ray definitely, maybe Rubby de la Rosa and Randall Delgado), plus a ton of great arms on the farm, they just might be pretty set.

That's alot of "what ifs" there....

If you're depending on Delgado and De La Rosa (26 and 27 on opening day) developing thats not good. Agree with you about Corbin though. I like that dude.

<font color=goldenrod>I really don't think the D-Backs are all that far off from being a legit contender in the NL West. Still remains to be seen what, if any, big splashes the Dodgers/Giants will make in response to losing Greinke, but for right now I think Arizona is very close, terrible new uniforms aside.</font>

I actually take back what I did. Wadding's comments caused me to review the D backs current roster, where most of their top prospects are already up contributing. Greinke is a big add. If Ahmed, Lamb, and Tomas can contribute I think they might pass up the Giants.

They shouldn't say D-backs. Reminds too much of Douchebags.

The Arizona Muskrats

I do think they need at least one more starter. Reports indicate they're still in talks with Mike Leake, who I personally would love the Padres to sign. If they nab him they're at least a pretty competitive ballclub that's maybe a piece or two away.

I like Smardjizkaicka

D-Backs signing Greinke means that trying to sway Johnny Cueto to reconsider the deal they offered him failed. Front office must be gearing up to "contend now" status.

NL West should be fun to watch between the Giants, Dodgers, and Diamondbacks with the arms they got now.

For their fans sake, I hope they aren't planning on signing tons of FAs. Trying to create a super team to compete with the Dodgers would be a mistake.

Probably looking to sign 1 more pitcher. Which is what they need.

What I was really looking for is them to develop into competent #4 and 5 starters, that's not a huge stretch. I think they could do with another arm but they should wait until the market drops out the way it has for the past couple years, like it did with Ubaldo Jimenez. And a decent reliever or two on short term deals would be great.

<font color=goldenrod>Jeff Samardzija to the Giants. 5 years, $90 million.</font>

He should be much better not pitching at the Cell. I guess it goes along with the theme of SPs being expensive no matter what.

pitching costs and you end up paying for the risks involved

Consolation prize for the Giants. Miss out on Greinke, go after the next best thing.

Well I was wrong..ok

4-years, $31 mil. for Darren O'Day.

I guess you can call him an "elite" closer if he's getting that money.

<font color=goldenrod>Nats supposedly offered O'Day the same day as well and O'Day took it back to the O's to give them a chance to match.</font>

Good job on his agency to lock him up through age 36. I've stated how I feel about relievers. If O'Day can keep posting 2+ WAR per year over the length of the deal he's worth it. I just question if he CAN, but we'll see.

Meanwhile the Orioles have sunk about $35 million dollars into a maybe catcher, a mediocre first baseman and a reliever. Feel like they could've made much more tangible upgrades had they not offered Wieters the qualifying offer, and picked up Trumbo and O'Day.

You'd think with the Orioles finding Johnson, Hunter and now O'Day as originally bargain acquisitions to. dominate innings they'd be wiser with where their money goes.

They could pick up Pedro Alvarez and Chris Carter combined at what their paying Trumbo and get the same, maybe better offense in a platoon. I don't know if guys who except qualifying offers are protected from trades or not, but if not, they should shop the shit out of Wieters and take that $16 million and apply it elsewhere, like the corner outfield. Getting an Alex Gordon or Ben Zobrist would be a big upgrade for them. Gordon is actually a stellar fit.

I dunno. Feel like the Orioles just lack an actual plan.

<font color=goldenrod>Mets supposedly now willing to guarantee a 4th year for Zobrist. I initially was against it figuring I didn't want the money he'd make on the back end of the deal to impact their ability to extend/re-sign any of the starters. But now that I've seen how batshit insane the open market is for SPs, I don't need to worry about extending any of the starters because there's little reason for any of them to agree to do so. I don't blame them.

I already assumed Harvey would be gone by 2019 anyway, but with the other 4 guys. If they develop as expected a couple if not all of them could be in line for 9-figure contracts assuming the open market only gets more and more expensive. I question if this front office would ever pump that kind of money into a starter again after the Johan Santana deal. But even if they do, it's tough to see them re-signing more than one of them.

Basically...fuck what Ben Zobrist is making in 2019. Just do what you can to win in the next few years because there's every reason to expect the window to close once the starters hit the market.</font>

Yeah I wouldn't be giving Zobrist 4 years guaranteed. Don't the Mets have a second base prospect who's also pretty good? They should go with that and sink their money into a younger free agent who is more likely to be worth the money at the end of the deal, like Justin Upton.

I like Zobrist but not for four years. Three? Sure.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah Dilson Herrera is meant to be pretty good. If they don't upgrade 2B this offseason, he's likely to be the starting 2B on Opening Day.

Thing is Zobrist isn't strictly a 2B. If they want to give Herrera a look, Zobrist can play basically any other position competently. Pretty sure that's where most of his value comes into play.</font>

Ryan Madson to the A's. 3-years, $22 mil.

Sheesh, west coast grabbing all the arms right now.

Christ. He was making 850k base with the Royals, and cashed in for $7 plus mil per year at 35? I'm stunned that relief pitchers are getting this kind of multi year investments in their 30s.

Mind boggling.

Back too Vito...Zobrist used to be able to play multiple positions but with the knee issues he's had of late and his age I think 2nd and 3rd are more likely where he's best suited. Maybe some outfield but I'm not sure he's gonna bring the same value there going forward. Defensive runs saved per baseball reference have him at either 0 or less runs below average at every position he played this year.

Madsen was the only hittable guy in KCs bullpen. Not a good pickup at that price. Happy the Jays didn't go all in on him.

If by hittable you mean a 200 batting average against then sure. He didn't punch out a ton of guys though and that could change. I agree the rate is a lot.

I'm a Ryan Madson fan, but goddamn that's a lotta money for him.

I guess the O's/Darren O'Day deal ain't set in stone yet. Physical ain't done yet.

Potential of being another Grant Balfour situation here.

Dodgers keep Chase Utley around on a 1-year deal.

lol didn't KC sign him to a minor league contract last year?

I think he and Tony Sipp are a little over rated, of the sample size i've seen of them. Analytics only means so much.

Is Sipp still in the majors? Haven't heard of him in a bit.

Analytics mean a lot. They give you an unbiased, objective and sometimes merciless opinion on a player based on fact, not hyperbole like "he's feared" or "a club house presence". They'd also tell the Athletics that a 35 year old reliever on a multi year is probably a bad idea

Billy Beane probably meant to swipe left on that deal but he got distracted and swept right so now he's going on that date.

<font color=goldenrod>Dodgers sign Hisashi Iwakuma to a 3-year deal.</font>

<font color=goldenrod>Dodgers aren't fucking around now...reportedly getting close on a trade with the Reds for Aroldis Chapman. Good on them if it transpires...Jensen and Chapman would be an absolutely retarded back end of the bullpen.</font>

They are certainly useful but not the be all end all.

All fine and dandy but they just lost their second best pitcher, who wasn't far off from being as good as their best pitcher.

I mean, Iwakuma is a decent piece but they need a big time starter like yesterday. Chapman is great but I'm curious as to what they'd give up for him. Pretty sure he's gonna be a free agent and I'm not keen on how strong the Dodgers' current system is.

To which I'd ask is there really a better way to get a fair opinion on anything outside of taking all the information that's been compiled and creating a strongly supported idea of what it is you're really looking at?

I mean, people don't use intangibles to but cars. You wanna know the mileage, gas efficiency, resale value, performance history, availability of parts and how like vehicles faired in comparison. You wouldn't just but a car because it's nice or because "it drives great" or "has guts" right? Wouldn't you want to verify the statements first with tangible evidence?

well i mean for instance, they like to look past the rbi, but if ur in a spot in the line up where you're supposed to get 100 rbis, and you're able to drive in 130, one can assume you're effective in your roll on the team. I don't need to see somebody's WAR. You can also just tell when a guy is clutch and when a guy is a dude who racks up his numbers when he's up or down 6-1.

Matt Kemp drove in 100 runs and he was pretty much average as a hitter. RBI is a stat of opportunity. For instance, Josh Donaldson drove in far more runs than Mike Trout did, but Donaldson also 70 some odd more at bats with runners on. It's a context dependant stat that gives the hitter credit for a situation he didn't create.

RBI is probably the most overused and uninformative stat for hitters I can think of. It's not as bad as pitchers wins. But it's pretty useless in evaluating actual performance. Nolan Arenado drove in more runs than Bryce Harper and I highly doubt anyone outside of homer Colorado fans felt Arenado should be right up there with Harper in mvp consideration or just overall offensive production.

And how can differentiate when a guy is clutch and when he isn't? There have been countless attempts to try and find some tangible skill in guys being clutch but the result always came down the clutch player just being good all the time. Guys don't randomly "get up" or a see an abnormal boost in their skill set based on the context within the game. If you actually look at players who are considered "clutch" you'll find the overwhelmingly majority of them are good anyways.

Clutch situations is also bias. You're unlikely to see the bottom of the order guys get as many big opportunities. The best hitters hit at the top and middle of the order. Of course they're going to seem more clutch. They hit with guys in base and have more at bats in general than half of the lineup.

Brandon Phillips drove in 100 plus runs in 2013. Based on your assertion hee did his job as expected or better. Based on fact, he was a below average hitter who was the beneficiary of hitting behind on base machines Shin Soo Choo and Joey Votto. Phillips epitomized what those emphasizing analytics had been suggesting all along; RBI are context dependant and an adequate or less hitter will still tally them at high rate given the guys ahead of him consistently reach base.

If you want access how productive a hitter is from at bat to at bat strip away everything that is outside of their control and just look at the slash line of average, in base and slugging. It's the most basic yet still telling set of rate stats that can give you pretty accurate indication of whether or not a hitter is actually any good.

Pitchers? Era is good, runs against per 9, strikeouts per 9, etc.

Rate stats are always more indicative of what is actually going on and of what you can expect from that player going forward.

You can still look at RBI with some value because it shows that a guy can cash in on the opportunities he gets. Someone has to get those runs in, after all. Coupling it with say, average with runners in scoring position, can give some more context to it, but it shouldn't be completely ignored.

<font color=goldenrod>Soria is back where he started with the Royals. 3 years, $25 million with a mutual option for a 4th year.

Herrera, Soria, Davis. Good lord.</font>

Because that's what KC really needed: bullpen help lol

I like the signing. He's basically "replacing" Madson and he's better so good job, Royals. That bullpen should be fun to watch.

<font color=goldenrod>Forgot to loop back to this. I really disagree with this. If Zobrist is good enough for three years, he's good enough for four. If you think he can be a key cog to get you back to the playoffs in 2016-18, you shouldn't fret about the fourth year. Not when you're a contending ballclub looking for a piece to get you back to October.

Cuddyer is gone after this year. Granderson (whose contract no longer seems like an albatross after a great 2015, but still) is gone after 2017. Duda is probably gone after 2017 as well. Aside from Wright, it's not like the 2019 Mets are projected to be filled with old dudes.

Besides that, the Mets nearly always have to give an extra year if they want to land a big free agent signing. If they become an annual playoff team, it'll be easier to attract marquee free agents when they want to splurge.</font>

<font color=goldenrod>If the Mets can land Zobrist and say, Denard Span to provide them some top of the order speed and a left-handed complement to Lagares, I think I'd really like the look of their lineup. It wouldn't be as strong as it was down the stretch this year with Murphy and Cespedes, but it'd still be a stronger overall roster than they had on Opening Day 2015 which should mean less offensive struggles in the first three months of the season.</font>

Under the radar but Tigers signed Saltalamacchia to a one-year deal for just above minimum (with Marlins eating most of his salary)

Agreed to two-year deal with Mark Lowe



Really liking the moves Avila has been making.

Dodgers get Aroldis "The Flamethrower" Chapman from the Reds for 2 prospects.

Cubbies re-sign Trevor Cahill. 1-year, $4.25 mil.

Mariners acquire Wade Miley from the Red Sox.

Tigers and Mark Lowe agree to a 2-year, $13 mil. pact.

Yeah it tells you if a guy is useful in a spot. It doesn't telll you everything but it tells you enough.

However a guy cam be great with just 70 rbis in the middle of the order and it could have to do with the rest of the team and that is when the analytics come into play. They compliment the intangibles, they don't eliminate them.

Well yeah, then you need to dig a little bit, which is why I brought up average w/RISP (I guess BABIP works there too, but I don't know a whole lot about that so I could be wrong).

It also helps (somewhat) to have an RBI guy - or just a generally "feared hitter" (for lack of a better term) - in the order to make the pitcher sweat a bit and change the plan. Because with two on in a tie game, he's going to pitch Josh Donaldson differently than Ryan Howard.

Maybe a bad example, but seeing Howard K 3-5 times a game in key spots starts to wear lol

Saltalamacchia could be the best value of all the FA signings if he gets hot.... good luck with Mark Lowe though.....

I just pointed out how bad Brandon Phillips was despite having a 100 plus RBI season. If you looked solely at RBI you would think he had a good year. When you actually look at his own context neutral numbers you find that he was actually below average as a hitter and his RBI tally are completely misleading and, in his case, completely useless in observing his overall production.

Pitchers pitching differently based on "fear" or lineup protection is largely false. The only thing ever determined when it's been studied at length is the "protected" batter might draw an extra walk or two or put an extra ball in play but the results on batted balls or overall outcomes of an bat weren't even marginally effected based on perceived "protection".

RISP is also a context dependant stat. It's also pretty useless. Matt Kemp drove in 100 runs. Based on what you guys are saying, he's an RBI guy and is adequately doing his job. Yet, he as barely league average offensively and with runners in scoring position was actually less than league average. It wasn't dramatically less but less is less. He hit an uninspired 270 with risp. Yet the 100 RBI lead you to believe he does his job or has some sort of skill in the position.

He really doesn't. He is just another example of a mediocre hitter slotted in one of the two best lineup spots to drive in runs, and league averaged his way to a high RBI count that doesn't tell you he actually wasn't very good at bat for at bat.

I get RBI has been staple of baseball stats that we've been conditioned to place importance in but it really isn't an important stat any more than pitcher wins. The guy driving in a run is just the beneficiary of a prime lineup position.

The Yankees, the Rangers, the Astros, and the Nationals all failed to have even on player hit the heralded 100 RBI mark. 4 of the top ten teams in total runs scored. Two of this teams were in the top 3 in runs. But no 100 RBI guy. The mvp of the national league fell short. He wasn't anywhere near the lead. You wouldn't discredit him for not even being in the top ten in RBI right? You wouldn't discredit Mike Trout because at least ten guys finished with more RBI right? Would you say those guys were better than him?

Gorgeous just stated "it could have to do with rest of the team" if a great middle of the order bat only drives 70. That's exactly what an RBI is. It's a "what the rest of my team did prior to me getting an at bat" stat.

<font color=goldenrod>Kris Bryant has filed a formal grievance against the Cubs claiming that they intentionally waited until April 17th to call him to the big leagues. He accrued 171 days of service, a full big league season from a service standpoint is 172 days. Ergo, the Cubs bought an entire extra year of cost-controlled service by waiting to call him up.

I mean...it's pretty blatant it was done intentionally. And I don't blame the Cubs one bit. It's the smart move to make and not having Bryant for those 2 weeks really didn't make a big difference.

I can't see how this grievance goes anywhere. If you award Bryant extra service time, you create a slippery slope. If the MLBPA wants to take issue with this, they need to work out something for the next CBA.</font>

<font color=goldenrod>Maikel Franco filed a similar grievance against the Phillies today, too.</font>

lol yeah, during that time EVERYBODY was lauding the Cubs for doing exactly that, for exactly that reason. Why wait until now to make a stink about it?

I originally heard the Lowe deal was 2 years / $6.5M but was corrected to be $6.5M per year for 2 years.

Not a huge huge commitment for him (considering what the market seems to be like atm) so I like it. Plus, the Tigers' bullpen has nowhere to go but absolutely up.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah. No idea why he'd have waited this long to complain, it just makes Bryant look bad. I'd suspect Boras is in his ear much as he was in Harvey's year during that whole innings dilemma late in the season.

Boras could give a fuck less what the public perception of his players is. He just wants them to do whatever they can to get paid the most.</font>

Like honestly, Avila has been great this offseason. Basically getting rid of all the pieces that didn't work (non-tendered AlAl and FELIZ NAVIDAD, traded away Krol) and making small moves to bolster the solid pieces (Wilson, Hardy) already there. Obviously not going to be the KC 'pen but should be improved over last two years.

Plus with that nasty 1-5 lineup (Maybin-Kinsler-Miggy-VMart-JD) + whatever LF they sign (Gordon or Cespedes in a perfect world), pitching will be an afterthought (wishful thinking)

Boras is the worst thing about sports, but also the very best at doing exactly what he is supposed to do. Hard to like the guy but damn you gotta respect the size of his CANTALOUPES

nvm :'(

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tigers GM Al Avila tells Detroit reporters that they are out of Cespedes and Alex Gordon talks. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tigers?src=hash">#Tigers</a></p>&mdash; Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) <a href="https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/673986632425463809">December 7, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<font color=goldenrod>I would be very interested in seeing if Cespedes goes back to Detroit. He was very vocal about not thinking Detroit should punt at the deadline with the Wild Card picture so cluttered, was quoted as being unhappy when Price got moved, and then they traded him the next day to make it 4 teams in 2 years.

Wonder if there's any "bad blood" on his behalf towards Detroit even though it's a different GM. That being said, money talks. Angels might be in on him too.</font>

<font color=goldenrod>Alrighty that answers that</font> :o

I'm not sure how his camp feels but that's definitely justified. Every single Detroit fan I know would absolutely love to see him back. Everyone was crushed when he was traded (though it was understandably the right move)

<font color=goldenrod>Feel like the Mets are going to take some heat when Cespedes inevitably goes elsewhere. But I just don't think he has the range to play CF full-time, and that's the only apparent spot for him in NY unless they wanted to send Michael Conforto down to AAA, which I wouldn't agree with at all.

Will miss watching that goddamn cannon in the outfield, tho.</font>

LF is really a gaping hole right now though. JD is solid in right. Maybin/Gose platooning CF is... serviceable (not ideal). You put a guy like Cespedes in LF and I'll take Maybin/Gose all day.

Now, though. Having Collins in left makes Maybin/Gose look a lot shakier. Hmm. Hope Avila's got one more magic move up his sleeve before all is said and done.

It's better that they don't extend him. Of the four outfielders on the market, I think Cespedes has the biggest bust potential. He was amazing this year, but he's also 30 and he wasn't any where near the player he was this year in 2013 or 14.

His primary skill is power and he's now 30 and doesn't have a good track record of avoiding outs. That's probably not going to improve much and the last thing Detroit needs is being tied into a wrong side of 30 outfielder who can't avoid outs and won't wield the power he once did.

They should sign Heyward or Upton. Both those guys fit nicely for them.

Think DET will go after Upton?

uhhh Cespedes hit 35 homers and 42 doubles this year... what's all this "lack of power" talk

But I do agree SOMEWHAT about the age thing, if only because he's reportedly seeking a 6-year deal


But didn't he join the league late? I swear he was just signed by the A's like 3 years ago

If Verlander pitches like he did to close the season, Tigers fans will be all-in on Upton





...you meant Kate, right? :shifty:

6 years might be too much for Cespedes unless he goes strictly DH near the end of it. Would require to be on an AL team though.

<font color=goldenrod>Wrong thread there chief</font>

<font color=goldenrod>Anything that gives me another excuse to watch this is a wonderful thing.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FhKYSs42K1s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Doubt Citi Field will ever hear that kind of heat again. Love how it goes from mild boos for the jobber players, to louder ones for Greinke/Kershaw, and then Utley just gets absolute nuclear heat to the point where they have to keep the camera on him longer.</font>

Red Sox getting Carson Smith is massive. Wow. Loving these moves.

Dear Pirates. Do something. Anything. Be different this year.

Thanks

Signed any Pirate Fan who has ever watched in the last 20 years.

I didn't say he lacked power. I said he's in the wrong side of 30 and has little secondary skills to hello offset what is going to be a decline in power, his biggest trait.

He just put up his best year, at age 30. Maybe he's got one more year or two like this in the tank but It's unlikely. Obvious his plus d in left has tons of value but that's not what he's gonna get paid for.

Over the next two or three years I feel Cespedes is going to start hitting a very hard wall. He hasn't come close to posting his rookie year on base and we're now going on 5years in. Doesn't look good long term for whoever gives him the likely 7 year deal.

I think Detroit and Upton is really great fit.

<font color=goldenrod>The Dodgers/Chapman trade is now on hold. Chapman allegedly involved in a domestic violence situation this fall.</font>

Cubs Kris Bryant filed a grievance against the team with the reason due to the service time clause in his contract. Team knew going as far back as May that he had filed a complaint with it becoming public today.

100p

Everyone all-in on Kate Upton

Yeah well Tony Lacava got J.A. Happ, suck on that

I'm gonna have to strongly disagree on this one... I do agree that a 6 or 7 year deal would be foolhardy though

I hate when everybody thinks at 33 all of a sudden you suck.

The Mets don't make the playoffs without Cespedes. Well didn't hurt that the Nats had the worst management. They have unreal pitching and a TERRIBLE offense. Going to waste a lot of prime pitching years. Wilpons are the worst.

<font color=goldenrod>If Cespedes were a perfect fit for the Mets and they chose not to sign him because they cheaped out, I'd be pissed off. But having seen the extremes of his game last year, I really just don't think he's that good of a fit long-term.

It's not even anything to do with thinking he'll get bad as he gets older. Grandy just had a fucking great year at 34. Cespedes can carry the team when on, but when he's cold he's basically invisible. Helplessly hacking at everything. From mid-September right through the World Series he was pretty well non-existent save for one game against the Cubs. And he doesn't have the range to play CF with regularity, which is what the Mets would need for him to do.

Will always appreciate what he did in August and the trade was totally worth it. But there are just too many holes in his game to put all your eggs in the Cespedes basket moving forward.</font>

Except nobody is arguing what he did this year. The debate is whether or not anyone believes a one dimensional hitter is going to be worth a long term deal, and my opinion is no, he's not. He's going to get a monstrous deal to be close to what he was in year c two and three of his career, which is a good but not great player.

<font color=goldenrod>Zobrist supposedly has narrowed his list down to the Mets, Nats, and Giants. Giants are viewed as longshots now because they'd want him to primarily play LF but he'd prefer to play the bulk of his time at 2B (with the flexibility to fill in elsewhere as needed due to injuries/off-days for other guys, of course).

Really hope the Mets' courting of him pays off, they've made it no secret to him that he's their top priority. The more I think of it the more I want him on the team. Not even worried about he's age. He's a young 35 since he didn't even get a full year in the bigs until he was 28.</font>

Fair assessments. Who is going to carry that offense though? I personally wouldn't want Cespedes long term either. There is something to be said about a suitcase at that stage in his career.

It's just going to be sad to watch that pitching be wasted.

<font color=goldenrod>I don't think they need one guy to carry the team. They just need a better overall top-to-bottom lineup from the get-go. If they get Zobrist and Span they'd be looking at something like:

CF Span
RF Granderson
2B Zobrist
3B Wright
1B Duda
C d'Arnaud
LF Conforto
SS Flores

Maybe I'm crazy but I think they could actually compete with that. Duda may be the only bonafide power hitter in that group but in such a big park they really don't need a ton of sluggers. They need guys who can get on base and move the line along. That lineup won't scare you like the one with Murphy and Cespedes did, but it's still a far better one than they threw out there for the first 3 months of last season.

Also helps that I'm extremely high on Conforto. I could legit see him hitting out of the 3 hole at some point soon.

Plawecki, Tejada, Lagares, and Michael "highest paid bench coach in the league" Cadaver as your backups. Would love to see them bring back Kelly Johnson too.</font>

That's why I didn't say to look just at RBI. My point is that to claim to want to see the whole picture, then ignore an entire stat doesn't make sense to me. If it's useless, why track it?

Not everything needs a number attached to it. In a big spot, a guy like Donaldson is going to warrant a different approach than Dominic Brown because he's just a more dangerous hitter and is more likely to come up with a big hit.

Not what I'm saying at all. Knocking in runs still matters, though, so you'd like to have a guy who can take advantage of his chances. Is it based on lineup spot and surrounding players? Sure, but you don't get put in the 3-4-5 hole for nothing.

You seem to be making assumptions here. I never discredited anyone or said anyone was better based on RBI. What I said was RBI carries at least a bit of weight because you still need someone to get runs home. I never said a team needed a guy with 100 RBI, or that a player even needed that many to be considered good/great.

And I didn't dispute that, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning it. It's still a part of the equation, even though there are now more parts to examine.

Should put a Kalyx Triad post warning on there. Seemed like such a good way to do it.

Damn you, discussion forum.

If I were the Dodgers I'd just back out of the Chapman trade. With all the bullshit going on in the NFL with Greg Hardy and Ray Rice, last thing you need is a distraction.

I'm reading about that stuff now, hadn't heard about it before. Seems like there were a lot of conflicting stories about what happened.

Allegedly she found something on his phone. She says he choked her, "but didn't prevent her from breathing," but police didn't find any redness on her neck. He says he poked her on the shoulder/neck area to say "don't talk to me that way." His driver says Chapman then locked himself in the garage and fired eight shots with his handgun. Then his driver wouldn't talk to police again.

That's according to the report on Yahoo. Seems wacky/terrible any way you look at it. And I agree, ClockShot, I wouldn't want that mess (despite how great Chapman is).

From a baseball/moral standpoint I would absolutely love if something wacky like this would let me sign him for 1/2 his value now.

But from a 2015 standpoint, unfortunately will probably have to avoid this one since people are morons and will make #Social #Media posts about it all offseason long

Clubs have yet to confirm, but reportedly STL and SD made a deal.

Cardinals get: Jedd Gyorko

Padres get: John Jay

We now go live to Damian Rey for his thoughts.

<font color=goldenrod>Cardinals will get the better end of that deal, just like they always do.</font>

Jay was injured a bunch last year too, wasn't he?

This will go nowhere. Boras pushed for this (does he rep Franco too?) but isn't a frivolous idiot. This is posturing for the next negotiations in the collective bargaining agreement. Every team currently does this and are well within their right to do so.

Franco is represented by Ryan Royster, who likely moonlights as the lead guitarist for Frank Drebin and The Anal Mess.

Hi screech! I'm live on the scene at the winters meeting from my couch with the fallout of the deal that sends Jed Gyorko to St Louis for Jon Jay.

Good deal for the Padres solely for the fact that they get out from under the $19 million owed to Gyorko over the next three years. Also opens the door for former first round pick Corey Spangenberg to helm second base full time. Spangenberg's combination of speed, defense, and contact approach at the plate lead to a 2 WAR season over 108 games.

Jay also seemingly fills a platoonspot in center. He's a contact oriented hitter who has a career 287 hitter and 350 plus on base with adequate, maybe better defense.

Jay is pretty much a stop gap but the Padres needed a lefty bat and the fact Jay can play respectable defense in center is a plus, as they now have a decent platoon between Jay and Upton, Melvin.

It's clearly a salary dump but a productive one at least.