Not a big fan of today's wrestling although i catch some of Raw or SmackDown or Dynamite or whatever once in a while but I'm far more entertained listening to podcasts or watching older shit both that I have experienced or never saw before. I've def become much more of a casual fan over the last decade or so though as the direction it has gone in has waned my interest.

Are you guys sure you just haven't gotten older and *less gay* and maybe it doesn't have everything to do with the product. Also I think some of you just really like complaining

I liked WWE for like 7 months in 2004, I try to watch the Royal Rumble and/or RassleMania but I usually don't. Sometimes I try to put RAW on and I can make it like, I dunno, 1 minute.

But I really want to like wrestling, in the right mood and environment I could enjoy a tv progrum. I WILL go the WrestleMania within the next 10 years, just to say so. Cant wait to howl for *THE BIG DOG*

do people become less gay overtime? is that how being gay works?

"i was a real fag in my 20s but now in my 40s i only like a cock in my ass on the weekends"

In my experience (not personal experience mind you) it’s mostly the other way around.

I don’t give either promotion my full attention tbh, mostly watch while snoozing on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday morning or skip altogether and read results if I have work early on those days but I can loosely describe it in the following, and opposite ways;

WWE is just there. Feels like very little happens with maybe one or two things that pique my interest weekly. Segments and matches run too long and I find myself skipping parts of the show.

AEW has too much happening every week with maybe one or two things registering with me and the rest just a blur.

I’ve all but given up watching NXT.

Nah. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling. The change in the just the basics of proper storytelling is clear as day when you compare eras. The hotshotting of the attitude era is mostly to blame for the sudden shift in style but there’s been no real effort in the past 20 years to figure out how to either slowly take a step back or how to move forward without sacrificing storytelling. WWE has become content with a jumbled creative mess as long as content is being produced.

This is also true.

I agree with this — although sometimes it is even less than a few things weekly.

I was thinking before that I think the distinction between a “casual fan” and “casual viewer” should be drawn. I am far from a casual fan, but my viewing has become more and more rare. That’s an indictment on the product(s).

In the evolution of usernames "poopfromweiner dude" is progressively *more gay* than "Nervous Ferret" lol and I am also still entertained by the product of the timeframe of my childhood where as I don't care to watch current wrestling whether it be for nostalgic reasons or whatever but I'm still a wrestling fan so I think it is more the direction of the product as opposed to personal growth and maturity or being *less gay* as PFWD said in my case anyway. So I guess I'm a huge fag because I still like wrestling

I mean I said 1-2, I think that’s universally accepted as “less than a few”.

It’s definitely a law of diminishing returns. Every time I get moderately hyped for something it underwhelms or the payoff stinks.

I can chart where my interest took a huge dip.

Lol, I just mean that it is sometimes weeks before ANYTHING registers with me. I didn’t mean it to be a jab or anything.

Where did it really hit for you? I think the advent of podcasts has definitely hurt wrestling, in my opinion. The content is just so much…better than the actual wrestling.

Yeah podcasts are amazing! I would make it to a point to listen to the newest episode of Foley is Pod just for example before I made it a point to tune into Raw this week. Podcasts are just way more entertaining now

Its just pure wank these days,

Promos are scripted literally to the letter and it's rare you get any sense of believability from the people delivering them, they all talk the same they all use the same phrases (each...and every....one of you etc). It's like the promos are written without anyone specific in mind and they're just dumped in a big pile for random people to take and use.

The shows are formatted to the point of mediocrity, whens the last time Raw started with a match? Week in week out its a gum flapping session to open the show.

The moves are getting more and more moronic, for example how often in a multi man match are we going to get that fucking spot where they're all gathered together outside the ring and one guy either climbs the turnbuckle to flop down on them all or jumps over the ropes to drop down on them all? Or that spot where about 6 people are at the turnbuckle all on top of one another and it turns into a multi layer powerbomb or suplex? The moves are so obviously assisted these days that any sense of believability is gone in an instant.


On the whole though i think boredom comes from the fact that most of us are older and have seen it, done it, got the t shirt, we lived through the monday night wars, attitude era and it's all been downhill since that. Wrestling will never get remotely near that peak again, part of the success of the wars and the nwo was the notion that this was an actual wwf invasion and wrestling still had a semblence of being real. That notions long since gone, now we know what they have for breakfast, whos fucking who etc.

IMO it'll just shamble along being a mediocre tv attraction at best and thats about all it can hope for now.

Great post.

I often think about the inevitability of it all. Was wrestling always destined to be contained to relevancy in the 20th Century? I’m not sure it had to go down this path. The promoters and performers could take better care of it.

I feel it has a lot to do with the way society and culture has evolved the last couple decades. The biggest boom periods in wrestling drew from cultural movements. I feel like we haven't seen movements like that since. Do the past two decades even have an identity the same way that previous decades did? I feel like the rise of the internet and social media, along with the massive push in corporate branding and marketing, has really muddled us as a society.

Hmm, I think the point is valid, but a lot of how we conceptualize time is constructed with hindsight too. And wrestling informs culture just as much as it flows on from it. Steve Austin was very 90’s, but he put a lot of that into the period too. I wonder how much is horse and how much is cart.

Technology has opened us up to a globalized (and gentrified) world. But it also allows different tastes and viewpoints to be exalted. I don’t know if it’s fair to say that the past few decades haven’t had an identity. I think they’re going to be associated with youth growing up with information at their fingertips and its clash with the people it scares, for example. It’d be hard to talk about media in the 2000’s and 2010’s without talking about Marvel and streaming.

There’s definitely stuff to talk about culturally. It’s just hard to talk about it in the corona of it all sometimes. I think, anyway.

But I do see your point about branding. A lot of that has been a conscious decision by the WWE that really started way back when they were the WWF and first went public in 1999. I think they might be trappings of their own design. Looking at their profits, they probably desire it.

It's most definitely this. WWE's main draw is no longer the in-ring product, and it hasn't been for a very long time.

You say that, but Cody and Seth just got awarded five stars from everyone’s favorite purveyor of taste. I much prefer the work of Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar to Adam Page and Kenny Omega. I mean, even when they were the WWF the action wasn’t always the fastest, and the in-ring product being better than its closest competitor doesn’t mean it’s the main draw. But I think people can get overly cynical about these points (not saying you are).

Hell, I’m not even sure I’m disagreeing with either you or Figgy, I just think this is a really important discussion to have.

There's always something really good on a WWE ppv. Its never been entirely unwatchable. Part of me wishes it was so I could ignore it completely.

The really great matches however, are always surrounded by so much formulaic, uninspired filler. Even wrestlemania at this point, only delivers two, MAYBE three matches that feel up to the standard of the event.

Was the in-ring ever WWE’s main draw/focus? They’ve always been more personality/storyline focused with the actual physical element second fiddle. It’s just the personalites and storylines have gotten progressively worse and the action better.

Speaking purely from a business model perspective, not whatever podcaster or "wrasslin talking head" people love/hate.


Not even talking about it from a "mark's" perspective. I just don't believe they are focusing on their in-ring product so much as branding and shit like that, that is more "behind the scenes".


They homogenized entrances, some themes (the CFO$ era), promos (even down to generic phrases and cadence), etc.


They just wanna take this product, that is "there" but "dependable" and put it out in as many formats as possible. I expect the "next gen" of top talent to go the way of "Miz & Mrs" in a much more prominent way. That's the kinda focus I'm referencing, and definitely seems the way they are going. I'm not discounting their NXT program or whatever..... but that is also kinda paramount to them "keeping things same samey".



Strictly my opinion, but there's only so many god damn times you can do Roman v Brock and get people to STILL care. On the flip-side, you have die-hards who will pay to watch them do the same shit literally every day.


It'll be interesting, maybe?, to see where it all falls.

I'd say yes. You would have "a time" when you would have to "pay to see the champ". You have your champ performing in-ring, but you have to pay a premium to see that.



The action is predictable, the personalities are all the same, with one or two things tweaked.

I’d say they’re getting back to that having a champ that draws now with Roman Reigns. They even pull him off shows that don’t fill a stadium. He popped a pretty big rating last week.

I agree that WWE wants a fairly “evergreen” product. They don’t want to make it too hot, because once they start to come down, so does the stock price. I think they could definitely produce a sustainable product that ticks way more boxes than they do though.

Fucking hell, hand out promo licenses to guys, so you can get to the stage where you prove you can write your own shit and make it work without going too far. It could definitely stand to feel way more organic.

They’ve caved to the internet’s wishes and focused on their workrate heroes to the detriment of any remaining mainstream audience WAY more than a lot of people, Vince included, would ever admit.

More serious than ever before in 2022. 1,000,000/10.

Riddle Van Dam is a funny guy. Almost not serious enough for me. ALMOST.

How much of that rating was down to the scandal and Vince’s appearance on the show? I’ve not seen the “minute-by-minute” breakdown but you’d anticipate that they’d get a bump from that. The hour or so after Vince was very flat creatively, did they manage to hold attention through to Roman?

It was a slow decline followed by a series of "hammer blows" in 2019 - quite late by a lot of people's standards.

February 18th: WWE calls up Ricochet, Aleister Black, Ciampa and Gargano up to Raw clearly with no plan for them, and undoing years of storylines in NXT in the cases of the former DIY.

April 8th 2019: Raw after Mania. After a Mania that gave us 3 huge babyface wins they setup a "Winner Takes All" World Title Match that predictably ended in a DQ. Call ups were Lars Sullivan, and I think Sami Zayn returned, that was it.

April 2019: The SuperStar Shake up. Followed almost immediately by the "Wildcard Rule".

May 20th 2019: WWE introduces the 24/7 Championship, it is fucking ugly and won by scramble, literally the first person to grab the belt. Potential not realised. Launch of Raw: Dark. Interesting concept. Potential not realised.

June 2019: Heyman took over booking of Raw which should have had some promise. He started to bring in new talent, there was a new "energy" in the product.

September 30th: Raw "season premiere".

October 4th: SmackDown premieres on FOX with its 20th Anniversary

October 11th and 14th 2019: The Draft. Second Time lucky?


It's those last 4 shows in quick succession where they could have done something to really change up what they were doing but they didn't. I fully accept that I set my expectations high and the product was just disappointing.

It's not so much of a champ "who draws" for me, so much as it is the same fucking names time and time and time again and yeah....


I tuned out YEARS ago, hard to remember the exact timing of it because my memory is shit. I remember watching... probably RAW, and just calling out literally everything that was going to happen before it did. That, and fucky finishes at PPV's or other "big matches" that should have a clean finish, unless it is progressing something, or debuting someone you know?


Lots of things that just started to really "not make any sense at all" and I cannot pinpoint a single attribute, it just all started to stink. The camera cuts also contributed to this, as it makes the on-screen product VERY difficult to watch at times.

Tried to edit, but my post disappeared.....


Like, we will get Lesnar v Reigns on a PPV right? Just to have a rematch the next night, or the nearly identical match the following month, with one or two tweaks. Big yawn for me on that.

You bring up a lot of good points for my reasons of losing interest. The predictability is a huge thing as well as the bullshit finishes and storylines building up to go nowhere. I feel like it gets worse as time goes on.

Anytime (in the rare instance) there are World Title matches on TV, you can all but guarantee a fucky finish.


I don't recall the last time a world champ was crowned on TV, but why not do that sometimes. I get it in the age of the 50-60 ppv buy, but it's all Peacock now, and 9.99 is a much lower barrier for entry.



Don't be scuurt. Do some exciting shit now and again man. I dunno. It is so formulaic (part of the homogenizing aspect) that it is boring.

Big E, Raw, September 2021.

Not very seriously.

We need Bob Backlund to go around yelling at crowds to take wrestling seriously again. Shit, have him consider running for president again. :shifty:

This Seriously...

lollllll That's the face of a man whose parents never hugged him

I bet Tony Khan grew up as a stereotypical rich kid that you'd see in movies. Had everything one could ask for on a silver platter and all the opportunities in the world at his fingertips but was never happy and "acted out" in rebellion because daddy didn't give him enough attention and he felt "unloved"

You can tell he wasn’t a smart kid growing up. No billionaire “rewards” their actually smart kid for getting good grades.

Holy shit at that face though. The way he’s hugging Okada is freakin’ insane.

I am fucking dying right now. Funniest shit I've seen in ages.