Probably going go be advertised for the Raw after Exteme Rules to “discuss the fate of the Universal Chpionship”.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/3o7WIFiRlSqIjiTdjG" width="480" height="344" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7WIFiRlSqIjiTdjG">via GIPHY</a></p>

Good.

WWE deserves shitty ratings and shitty viewing numbers for the shitty product they consistently put out. I know they won't actually get bad enough to change anything, but I hope things gets worse and that attendance, merch, etc., all drop. Maybe then someone will have the bright idea to actually give a shit about having a consistent quality product instead of just putting out as many hours as possible of the horrible, overly scripted filler and nonsense they're fortunate to be able to currently do so well with.

Sure a downturn would likely hurt the talent personally, but it'd be better for everyone in the long run, talent included, if they were forced to improve the product.

It'd serve them right if it got to the point it started to effect them (I imagine there are drop-out clauses for USA and FOX should ratings dip to a point that WWE aren't holding up their end). It's not as easy as putting effort in when things have already been damaged. When you burn an audience, you burn them good. Those people that checked out Raw 25 and didn't come back probably aren't going to come back anytime soon, and they are the people most likely to become the casual audience. Nope.

I stopped watching about 2 months ago. first time i completely stopped since i started 30 years ago. i still come on here and read the reports to see if anything major happened to at least keep up, but it just got so repetitive for me. I felt like i was seeing the same matches over and over again and it was just the most bland writing. Now i see they are planning two Wrestlemanias along with two Royal Rumbles. Like most are saying, it's too much of the same thing over and over

I haven't watched Raw in 2 weeks, tired of Roman Reigns feel like he's gonna main event E.R. and win. Not interested in that storyline.

The comments on this topic on Reddit are really good/interesting IMO:


https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...viewership_in/

SD did 2.1 million viewers, up from last week's low of 2.0 million viewers

- wrestlinginc

Anybody who thinks ratings matter at all doesn't understand TV. As long as they are able to sell ads, and doesn't cause scandals, it is a homerun. Until advertisers stop buying the ads, ratings don't mean shit.

The fact that the show is live is the best bet for advertisers, cause then no fast forwarding commercials.

The only way the poor ratings might mean is maybe WWE and Vinces ego will motivate him to do better.

Honestly though, at 71 and having $3 Billion, and being solid for essentially the next 6 years, Vince probably is gonna sit back and relax even more.

Ratings determine how much a network can charge for ad rates. That is why The Super Bowl can charge 3 million for 30 seconds.

Correct, but that is the extreme. There are enough advertisers wanting their commercial on a live show that the rating doesn't matter if it is a 5 or a 2.

I agree at some point if the ratings dropped enough advertisers would not pay the premium.

My point is that as long as the network can make money from ads, they will be happy, hence why even with garbage ratings WWE still sold their programming for $2 billion+.

The more people watching, the more valuable advertising is. A show consistently pulling in 5 million people is more valuable than the same show pulling in 2. It's just common sense. You can argue the point that the ratings can drop to before they really have to worry about actually having money problems but the idea that it doesn't matter is silly.

I honestly look at ratings as a sign of longtime die hard viewers 'giving up' on WWE -- while WWE isn't exactly endearing themselves to the under 18 demo they need to replace those who give up WWE as their new 'lifelong fans' who watch no matter what.

Dropping 500K in viewers each year on average doesn't mean those 500k viewers all of sudden started watching clips online or read the results -- a fraction will -- but many will just 'stop watching' altogether. WWE isn't something most people start watching in their 20's, 30's, 40's -- it starts when they are young.

At some point WWE is going to kill their image as a reliable provider of live content if numbers keep declining. Having small spikes here and there mean nothing if its not sustainable in the long run. Its one of the big reasons why WCW folded since their brand wasn't seen valuable anymore for tv.

FOX and NBC won't be in any rush to toss WWE out due to the money they are paying but unlike USA Network, they already have shows that easily outperform WWE's stuff. Only advantage WWE has is not needing breaks for "seasons" or in general. NBC has also already shown they have no issue getting rid of WWE stuff if they feel its too much of a hassle to keep (ex. Saturday Night Main Event revival, Mania highlights show, Smackdown).

It seems people have already handled this, but the ratings (and other things) determine how valuable ad placement on those shows is. Wrestling faces a problem, because it actually has more trouble selling ad space than things with a lower rating. Their placement in the demo ratings is probably more important than the specifics between a 2 and 2.1 million viewers, but eventually advertisers will say "wrestling is shit," which is when television networks will say "wrestling is shit."

RAW managed to rebound well this week partially due to the post-PPV bump. Interestingly though is this week actually managed to do worse rankings wise since last week was a 2,3,5 split and this week was a 2,5,6 for hour splits.

Next week is going to be a tossup since it won't have the post-PPV bump to help bail out the numbers but also won't have a major sports game(s) going on either I think.

SD had 2.2 million viewers, up from last week's 2.1 million viewers.

-wrestlinginc

This week's RAW managed to do worse than last week although was also the rare time where the show didn't suffer a big drop in female viewers. WWE teasing a big announcement and rumors spreading it was women related likely played a big role in them keeping the female viewership through the show.

RAW also lost out to its blood rival Love & Hip Hop for rankings stuff.

So people tuned out for Roman's #1 contender match. Shocker.

The male audience has been tuning out for a while now. Surprised that women actually stuck around. I expect that to change.

How awesome is it that Miz and Mrs just got double the number of viewers as Total Bellas. I hope Miz trolls Daniel Bryan with this on Smackdown next week lol

SD ratings went up this week to 2.34

Miz and Mrs did 1.47 million


-wrestlinginc

owenbrown = ratings :shifty:

That is a premier episode. It's a great number though. I imagine everyone is very happy with that. I imagine Rusev and Lana will be next.

RAW did a 2.8 this week

-wrestlinginc

Hourly decline from start to finish this week wasn't that bad overall at around 100k but since RAW started off with lower numbers, pretty much was a guaranteed to be a bad week.

SD did a 2.1 rating, down from 2.4 last week

-wrestlinginc

This week's RAW managed to set the dubious record of lowest ever viewed show in RAW history when not counting holidays or taped episodes.

That yearly drop might be the biggest ever as well.

The big story there is the placement with the demo. That's going to be a bigger gauge to how the product is faring with USA than anything else, because if the demo mark-up stays in line, they are still the best for advertising. They're actually losing their appeal with that, and it's not just an analogous television decline.

#4, #6 and #7 means that other things were #1, #2, #3 and #5. WWE has not been in that position for a long time, and other things have not had that opportunity in a long time.

Well football is responsible for the top few spots which happens every year. It’s more concerning that they struggle to beat Love and Hip Hop. I also noticed Smackdown has it’s own competition that beat it last week in the form of some show I’d never heard of. They used to crush all the non-sports competition. Even when they had another wrestling show eating into their rating.

Oh, I don't follow football season, so I didn't know that. I'm still hopeful for their decline. I want to see change.

In terms of actual ratings, last Monday's episode was around a 1.64 and WWE likely will hit a new all-time record low either later this year or around this time next year if current trends continue.

The current record is a 1.5 rating from a December 23, 1996 episode of RAW.

In terms of comparisons with WCW, RAW already has a few episodes that have been lower than the worst ever rated episode of Nitro (1.75).

I find it hard to find the ratings as opposed to the viewership, which I always assumed was because it sounds much worse than having 2.5 million viewers or whatever. Which has always been a more salient point when discussing ratings, because yes, while viewership is going down, the ratings are going down too. They're losing a share of the audience. And while there are more options on cable than they might have been during the Monday Night Wars, with television dying they are still losing ground.

Based on what I remember and some really rough math, think the current system might be a 1.0 rating equals around 1.6 million viewers for WWE's shows.

Whole thing gets confusing at times since different equations are used depending on the demo group and if your show is on cable or network tv. Then you have the different hours which I think also have their own weight for ratings.

Viewership is also a lot more fickle so the only real way to know if a show is a real hit or heading towards disaster is via the ratings numbers since its a lot less fluid.

https://i.imgur.com/X0m4BBi.gif

Took a week for WWE to break their record for least viewed episode in RAW history.

1st hour started out low and then went all downhill afterwards.

"You deserve it"

clap-clap-clap-clap-clap

Is that third hour still performing the best in terms of placement? A while ago I used to check on it, because I want it gone, haha, and it was actually by far comparatively the best performing hour because there's less on television at that time -- so tough titties to it being cut. But it's coming dangerous close to dropping below that magic 2 million viewer line...

lol Fuck WWE

Going by the weekly rankings, probably since even with the diminishing returns aspect, it still manages to place in the Top 10 outside of rare exceptions.

The real number is actually a lot lower since that 3rd hour also includes the 11PM over-run. It used to be RAW's strongest hour but lack of consistent quality and audience attrition made that no longer the case.

Ratings don't matter like they used to, but it is no coincidence that viewers are skipping Raw more because they have been in cruise control since they got their huge money deals.

In addition they have the huge money deal from the Saudis, a big money show in Australia, and hyping a separate charity every month while also constantly pushing the narrative of how great a company they are for showcasing women, I can see why they are just coasting.

That being said, at some point they are going to have produce better television if they want to stop losing viewers.

Raw doesn't feel like destination TV. You could have skipped the last 3 weeks and the only thing you would have missed at all is subtle teasing that Ambrose might be considering bailing on the Shield and that Lashley got a manager for some reason, and no they never explained it at all, it just is.

Other than that, you could pick right back up where you left off in early September.

What was the lowest Monday Nitro ever did?

1.75 from an episode in December 2000.

1.7 rating, so about 2 Million people

Back in the 90's college kids used to have "Raw parties" and "Nitro parties".

Can you imagine a Raw party in 2018? I imagine it would end with a mass suicide by the time the second hour was over.

People used to have Raw parties, meaning the show didn't need to be on in all but one of their homes, and yet they were still killing it. Now most people would ask "You watch that crap? You know it's fake, right?" And this is why indy geeks think it's a good idea to show that it's obviously fake, but that's even worse.

Doug Stanhope said about royal families: "Oh, they don't really do anything. They're more figureheads." You do realize how that is worse, right?

Feel bad for people who didn't experience the hectic energy of wrestling on Monday nights in the mid-late 90's. It was insane.

To think at the absolute height of it between Raw and Nitro together they were getting a combined total rating topping 12, which is Damn near 20 million people.

It's astounding. But former writer Tommie Casiello explained on Twitter that WWE focuses on the demos rather than the full number the other day.

Good/Bad news from this week's RAW numbers.

The good being WWE managed to stop the historic low slide and the bad being this week still managed to be the 3rd worst of all-time.

WWE was really lucky Drew Brees breaking an NFL record happened early into the MNF game and the Red Sox vs Yanks MLB playoff game was over very early as a competitive game since RAW's numbers could have been even worse.

I don't know if I'll call a one-week increase definitively stopping the slide. It was coming off a PPV which involved drama involving Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Undertaker, Kane, etc. Maybe some of the surprise returns -- Trish Stratus, Kurt Angle, Paul Heyman, etc. will help make things interesting and get people back, but I think what's going to be more interesting is how the number next week does, and whether or not that equates to generate interest.

Another Good/Bad news week for RAW.

The good being it went up again and the bad being it still managed to be 4th worst viewed show of all-time. Those 2 weeks where WWE set historical low records did a ton of damage to RAW's general interest.

3rd hour drop not as bad as it has been it seems.

Interesting.

Coming off a show with a bunch of returns last week, it makes sense it is up. Still shocking though. I don't imagine they're about to get more good wiil, and the show this week sounded awful. I'm going to predict that next week's is a drop.

This week managed to have a sizeable bump even though rankings-wise, its still struggling to get back to its usual spots.

Also the rare time where 9PM was the strongest hour and likely due to the people tuning in during the show to know more about Reigns' situation and if it was legit or just another cheap attempt by Vince to get Reigns cheered.

No Roman, No Viewers

Wow.................shocked............


I guess Pats/Bills were closer than expected but I expected some type of jump.

Tbf it went back to the level of the week prior. I suspect they got a bump last week with people tuning in to get the news about Roman/see what WWE did to react.

I'm interested to see how the WWE doing Crown Jewel affects their ratings, if at all. I'm inclined to speculate that it won't, but when the WWE does the show, maybe it becomes news? Not just left-wing social commentary news, but maybe when they actually do a show from Saudi Arabia, it sets into audiences? I can imagine there are some people that just don't give a shit, but I'm sure there are some people who are like "they won't do it" or are like "I'll believe it when I see it," and then will be like "oh, fuck, they actually did it!" If WWE does a propaganda video, that is going to get air time.

Fuck it, this could be great.

I think the vast majority of people still watching Raw every week at this point probably don’t care. I just can’t see the crossover audience between WWE and passionate political activists being all that huge.

I think the current fans they are pretty much guaranteed to get watching will boo or don't like crown jewel, but will watch it on the network and not tune out to boycott because they really don't give a shit in the long run.

Other than John Oliver shitting on them and some bad press, the Saudi show is unlikely to have a negative impact on them long term, imo.

Raw started off higher... was just sooo meh all through out.

Hourly breakdown:

8PM: 2,723,000
9PM: 2,455,000
10PM: 2,237,000

Average Viewership - 2.37 million

Hr 1 - 2.61
Hr 2 - 2.38
Hr 3 - 2.11


Third hour nearly dropped below 2 million.


credit - wrestlinginc

Meltzer w/ more on SD and RAW Ratings for the week in this week's Observer:

https://i.imgur.com/IfNGyEI.png

“The return of Becky Lynch” lol. How long was she gone?

I could see RAW dipping below 2 million on both Dec. 24th and Dec. 31st, which are both Mondays this year.

Note - last year this week RAW did a 2.8 rating...I think the low ratings will continue until the build to the Royal Rumble begins.

Not to hit a man while he's down, but I bet you Vince is sitting there like "SEE! I told all of you Roman was a big draw for us!"

How does the year-on-year drop compare to recent weeks?

I mean a main event with Tamina Snuka in 2018, what the hell did Vince expect.

Not knowing American TV well, how does the ratings RAW gets compare to other programmes in that timeslot on different days?

How low does RAW have to go before it becomes a risk of their current/future networks deciding they can put something better in that slot?

Genuine question, as American networks very different to what we have here.

RAW is one of the top twenty shows on Cable each week. RAW will do fine unless it ever drops below a million.

RAW has, on average, lost 300,000 - 400,000 viewers a year for the last few years each year.


12/9/2013
RAW
4,218,000 - 1st hr
4,177,000 - 2nd hr
4,062,000 - 3rd hr

:y:

NFL ratinngs are down....mlbs ratings are down...nbas ratings are down...its almost like the medium is dying

WWE’s ratings are falling at a faster rate than any other sport. That’s an issue.

I was more wondering if they’d been losing say 5% vs 2017 in the previous 6 weeks, and this week was 10%. Or if they’ve been losing X number of viewers every week and this was a significant fall?

Basically, did last week’s show result in more people than usual choosing not to tune in?

Thanks a lot RAW!

Id like to see some data on that if you have it. Also be worth to see how it tracks against lpime time tv.

I wouldn't say the sky is falling, but if the bottom drops out, I think it will drop out rather suddenly. Things will be fine until they aren't.

RAW did it's (new) lowest rating EVER last night.

Revenue is up 14%

WWE is "on path to exceed the financial targets established at the start of the 2017 year."

WWE "expects another year of record revenue and profits." "Operating income was $33.9 million.

Funny how the ratings seem to have nothing to donwith success...man...why arent those ratings hurting business?

...could they be a dated metric?

Stock more than doubled this yesr too

The thing I don't get is how are they still living and dying by ratings, and yet, The Network is a thing? Like, they don't give a shit about PPV numbers anymore, which are also something that they cannibalized themselves...

Throwing away the portion of the downturn that is contributed to by really lazy writing and shitty booking, are they even factoring in the fact that someone might be looking at the show on their tablet instead of The USA Network? Or DVR? Or after the fact on Hulu (if they still even do that I don't know I haven't used Hulu in years)? It isn't like the Monday Night War era where not watching generally really meant not watching.

It may be a dated metric, but for some reason, it's a dated metric they really care about for some reason.

Yes, they use all those things and the Live + 7 for DVR. WWE doesn't generally rise much with those after the initial rating.

They arent living or dieing by ratings. I dont know why you think that. Theyre not using those numbers to judge anything. And theyre right not to.

If you think ratings are something theyre watching then what efforts have you seen them make in response to these numbers?

Its 2018. If you're thinking ratings matter youre a luddite.

Facts are networks are throwing bags of money at them. Do you think they dont see the ratings? Times have changed. These arent relevent anymore.

Continually doing record low ratings and having consistent drops in live attendance is a bad thing for wwe. I don't understand why that's hard to grasp. Less people viewing a product doesn't make them more money in the future.


Ratings and Attendance have dropped 20-25% in the last year and is finally eating into their biggest demographic, the old fans (the +50 age demo is the largest viewership of WWE). "But they made more money"...and that won't continue if this trend does...


There is this bizarre attitude some seem to have that WWE is "too big to fail". They aren't, at all. I've long suspected the upswing would lead to the exact opposite at some point. "But they have 6 hrs of TV a week and more ppvs and tickets cost more and they are trying to make nxt everywhere and the roster is so talented"


All it took was for that small number of people they pushed to get injured and the bad creative and all these things people claimed were positives are slowly drifting towards being liabilities. Boom. No one is too big too fail. If SD on FOX flops FOX has no obligation to keep airing it. WWE doesn't get a billion dollars over 5 years no matter what. That's not how TV works. FOX could even send it to FS1 (Fox Sports 1) at a much less price. FS1 isn't in as many homes as USA Network and does an average rating of 500,000. Something like WWE would probably double that, but 1 million vs 2 million is far less eyeballs. FOX is going to care about the 18-50 viewing demographic, as that is prime real estate for advertisers. Advertisers are how TV Networks make money. If that viewership performs poorly then FOX won't make as much money having to sell ads to BENGAY and LIFE INSURANCE as they would to companies that appeal to people with traditionally more expendable income.


When WWE moves SD to FOX they will likely ship their big names to SD. FOX is in more homes than USA so the opportunity for exposure is much greater.The brands will stay separate bc why would FOX want to promote talent on a NBC cable station like USA? Why would FOX want something that aired on their network to have resolution on a cable channel instead of FOX? When that happens I expect RAW to tank further via having fewer big names and all the same creative problems it has had for a couple years. Nothing indicates WWE is going to wildly change their creative direction or feels interested in doing so. Also of great importance: the trend for WWE is to lose fans and not regain them. That has been the defacto trend in viewership the last 5-6 years.


They don't replace them with new fans either. Children are not likely going to see a cilp on social media or channel surfing and become addicted to WWE. How could they? What characters does WWE have? When you think of your time watching WWE growing up if someone said MACHO MAN or UNDERTAKER or VAL VENIS or BIG BOSSMAN you instantly know the character and who they are. What is Bobby Lashley's character? What is Seth's? Drew? Does Finn have a character or just have an entrance? So few wrestlers today have characters. And the sheer amount of programming available isn't going to entice new fans to watch, it's going to overwhelm them and turn them off.


Ratings DO matter. That's how they got the billion dollar deal. WWE promoted a consistent viewership who tunes in, no matter, week after week. TV stations love that in today's media. It's the same reason film studios make sequels and remakes so often -- there's an existing base for the product. What is happening is WWE is starting to slowly erode that base. THAT is a problem.


Hopefully when they move to FOX the notes they receive from network executives steer Vince into a cohesive show that is new-viewer friendly. Hopefully airing what will be your flagship show on a Friday night, a terrible night for television viewing, doesn't hurt them. Hopefully between now and then they don't continue to erode their base audience. At this rate the only show with a hope of cracking above 2.6 or 2.7 million viewers in 2019 is the RAW after WM. WWE's ratings will go up from mid-January thru WM season. The thing to watch will be how much. They aren't going to jet to 3 million. A million more eyeballs won't tune in than are now. The losing of viewers have been steady.


There is a chance ratings continue to nosedive until Oct 2019 when the SD move happens. There is a chance SD flops. There is a chance RAW flops when SD gets most of the big names. Say SD gets sent to FS1, the big names go back to RAW, but it's too late, the viewers don't tune back in, that's the consistent trend. There's a real chance the viewing audience if all this happens could be a million to a million and a half. There's a chance the XFL could flop for Vince as well.


One of the biggest mistakes WCW made was thinking it was too big to fail and the ratings/money wouldn't end. And going to three hour Nitros.


TV Ratings do matter.

I'm the guy who always made the argument that ratings don't mean very much today, certainly not like 20 years ago.

That being said, even I think the levels they have fallen this past month are alarming.

I don't know if Vince got the new TV deals and decided to coast for a few months, if he is preoccupied with the XFL, if he is just such an egomaniac he thinks he can just flip the switch anytime he wants, if he thinks the fans are so dumb that having Seth complain in one promo is gonna trick us into thinking this has played out exactly how he booked it, or what.

I know WWE will ramp it up for Mania, then have a a chance to keep the momentum going heading into the summer, but every week they put out trash shows and lose viewers, they are digging a larger hole they have to climb out of to win the viewers back.

If ratings don't matter than why does The Super Bowl charge millions for thirty second ads? It can't be because ratings determine advertising fees and that is one of the major sources of income for a TV Network.

If ratings don't matter then why do tv shows no one watches get cancelled; why don't they just stay on the air forever?

Sry Slik you just need to get on Destor's level.

SDL is up!

You say this as a joke but you really really do.

This is about percentages. Not numbers. The pie has shrunk and that has INCREASED the value. A 2.8 in 2018 is better than a 8.4 in 1998. If that very basic principle loses you I dont know how to have a conversation about mathematics. I cant walk you through a decade of econ on TPWW.

The stock is soaring. Its insane. But you guys are worried about ratings. you're stuck in the past and you dont understand how the market has shifted.

The networks do. And theyve deemed this among the most valuable programs in existence. What do you think you know that they dont?

The gate being down is an issue but thats another conversation.

Ratings will not effect cash flow; this doesnt matter

lmfao

Tell me Destor, do you happen to wear a fedora? If so, it would explain a lot.

Ratings aren't the be-all end-all like they were during the Monday Night War or the expansion of WWF in the late 90s, but they do matter. WWE is making so much money largely because they are getting thrown these giant bags of money for their television content. If people aren't going to watch it then that is going to dry up, which means other revenue streams, which are dwindling, are going to matter so much more.

I think it's quite narrow-minded to assume that things are going to go up, and up and up for the company just because they are doing well right now. That television landscape is going to change even more. What happens to the stock if SmackDown flops on FOX and they don't get picked up at the end of those three years and they have to slide back onto cable for much smaller rights fees? What happens to the perception of the company should they lose international TV deals?