I have the feeling that this Raw will end in such an awesome way.

I WANT THAT FUCKING SHIRT

Punk isn't going to touch Pedro Morales, however. I can see them giving him the nod for "longest reigning champion of the modern age", but he's not going to come close to a thousand days.

Where are his balloons?

lol. "Heck wi... heck with you, WWE Universe."

A shoot promo? I'm feeling it.

cult of personality is such an anticlimactic song

Besides Cena..looks like a weak list of title defense opponents

His hair and facial hair are constantly changing...

lol the year 2018

I don't want that day to come.....

lol 2018.

Punk. Wanna take bets Main Event doesn't exist next year lol

CUE BRUNO SAMMARTINO'S MUSIC IN 3... 2... 1...

Love the Stone Cold Punk did hahahaha

I was hoping for a TNA shot

'the hell are the baloons Paul had conniptions about?

So are they going to completely ignore the NXT guys...

I spoke too soon

Jesus! They just teleported in!

Expecting Rock's theme

This is golden.

Why are they dressed like Bossman?

All hail the Dangerous Alliance!

I feel like having them come out and just do what they did last night was away for WWE to stall having to explain what's going on for another week without having to advance the story.

That was idiotic.

So looks like NXT guys are acting seperatley not officially aligning with Punk. Just like the ref

BEST IN THE WORLD PAL

Bullshit! No baloons?!? #chekovsgun

Goodnight fellas

Or continue this for another 1-2 weeks to create the "Booker T" effect where he never learns about avoiding getting attacked the same way each week.

well, back to Halo 4 for me. Later fellas.

<font color=goldenrod>It was pretty obvious that Heyman paid them off. Punk was all like "who are these guys?" and Paul just had a shit eating grin when he was like "I DUNNO :D"

Looking forward to seeing where this leads next week.</font>

Glad they're not just using these guys as crash test dummies for ryback.

Wow that Heyman guy stable was cool. Right guys?

Treading water

You need to learn what obvious means

They are teasing and building up to revealing all the connections. They did a package on Maddox tonight, so that isn't going to disappear and these guys will not just disappear. It is almost like WWE wants us to watch next week to find out what the fuck is going on.

Quit bitching.

I'm not saying you're right. I'm not saying you're wrong.

I am saying you're making it sound entirely too much of a sure thing that WWE is going to "connect the dots" considering their ridiculous recent track record of failing to "connect dots".

A track record bad enough to leave me with little hope that it will all come together into some masterful reasoning.

Name me one babyface who the crowd can truly get behind besides The Rock who isn't fulltime to take on Punk. Name one? Cena? Orton? Sheamus? I meant who the crowd gets behind, not gives a mixed reaction. Ryback gets mild ovation. Who?

Santino Marella

I am just at odds with most of this board in that I do not believe the WWE product is bad at all. I feel like WWE has had the most consistently good product the past 2-3 years than they have had since 04/05. Not saying it is perfect or lacks some shit from time to time, but overall it has been solid and entertaining. They

And that's the problem. The guy who gets the entire crowd to pop a lower mid card comedic face.

Punk is gold but he's so gold, there is no equivlant and it leads to a huge imbalance. There are some good mid-card feuds but overall the product is very much down.

It's just so glaringly obvious that they write as they go and don't plan anything ahead of time though. Like... pretty much 100% of the time now. Why would you be shocked that someone fully expects the same to happen here?

... Not really a major issue I would think of... lol

You were saying there's no one the crowd gets behind enough to face Punk because the top faces get mixed reactions so no one is on the same level as Punk... who tends to get mixed reactions...

Punk Sheamus would be wonderful

jump back

Punk is a heel and a great one. He may get some chants but come on. He is not just a heel, with Heyman he's one of the greatest heels in years. Heels will always get some cheers but top babyfaces are not supposed to get mixed reactions. Yeah I know Cena who is involved in another feud.

Think NWO. Hell, even they had Sting, DDP, and Goldberg. Those guys were over like rover at their peaks.

Sheamus has potential but right now he's Irish Cena on SD.

Since when did heels get the pass on not forcing a full heel reaction while faces don't get a pass on not forcing a full face reaction? Kinda "flip the logic to fit what I like" thinking there.

Right and American Cena on Raw had a 5 star match with Punk

WONDERFUL!

I agree that WWE needs to hurry up and put some effort into getting some guys over.

Punk is not exactly the NWO though.

Punk learned this time not to mess with the crazy guys beating people up. Unlike when the first batch of NXT guys came in.

Not really. Corporate Rock was gold but he still got cheers. The thing is, he had balance for example with his feud with Austin who was a great face. It just seems like the guys that when their music hits and the crowd errupts are extinct outside of women and children when Cena comes out. Miz has potential due to his mic abilities and charisma but he is a ways away from being that guy who the crowd errupts for when he comes out. The entire crowd, not just one demographic.

Cena did a good job during that match but it was about Punk and the crowd.

I also wish they let Punk win cleanly on PPV. When was the last time that happened, Summerslam? Heels are allowed to win cleanly. Ask Dolph Ziggler. We can already see some stupid TLC match between Punk and Ryback with Punk retaning when the popcorn guy goes "rogue" and takes out Ryback. It's just dumb. Have Punk go over cleanly.

You want Punk to go over Ryback cleanly?

That wouldn't exactly do wonders for putting a face over. Punk isn't that type of heel. He should get clean wins and not lose so much on free TV. But he shouldn't be put cleanly over Ryback.

Big Show beating Sheamus for that title... THAT was incredible booking from a heel going over cleanly standpoint. Show looked like a monster and Sheamus looked like a monster who just couldn't quite get the job done.

Punk is not a monster and doesn't need to be booked as such. Strong, yes. Beating Ryback clean, no.

I'm all for Punk facing midcarders on Raw every week though, making some of them look like they can actually kinda compete on his level before he ends up getting the win clean though.

My thoughts on heel champions looking strong is this: if Ric Flair did it, it's ok.




AND RIC FLAIR DONT WIN CLEAN, BEACHES

He has been champion for a year and done mostly clean wins until they amped up his heel run. They are going to build it to where people will be foaming at the mouth to see Punk lose. It's wrestling 101.

Sheamus/Show impressed me at HIAC and the match Sunday Night was not bad either. They have some good chemistry. I can't argue agains that.
So another PPV with Punk retaining by a rogue security guard. Is this what it's going to be until WM? Punk beats The Rock by Lesnar interference I assume. Go over at HIAC by a rogue ring worker setting up his WM match with...who, Cena? Since it's in the NYC area Cena will be booed out of the building. Who else? Ryback? ehh, Sheamus? he's on SD. Punk is so far head and shoulders above any of his rivals on the Mic, and in the ring that it just gets me to DVR Raw and only watch a couple solid mid card matches and anthing Punk. The Vickie/Ziggler/AJ/Cena storyline is painful to watch.

Would be nice if next week Punk wore the "Macho" colors as an homage for passing Macho's reign and then Heyman/Punk make some wise remark involving him to get some cheap heat.

I just wish he would have a clean win or two but whatever. Okay, so people are foaming at the mouth to see Punk lose, but to whom? The Rock who only shows up a couple times a year? Cena? They need to build someone up to be the guy. I don't think Ryback beating Cena for the title is going to do much. Once again, who is the guy right now who the crowd is 100% behind?

You are assuming a lot of things and getting riled up about what you think will happen over the next 6 months just because of 2 logical PPV finishes?

That would be pretty awesome.

That is why they are building up his heat. FFS...

You mean 3. I can see Vince saying no interference by any WWE employee at TLC, then the rogue popcorn vendor.
My main point stands. You see it your way, I see it my way. No point in arguing.
While I'm talking with you, can you please unban me from the stream? I did nothing to deserve it.

Tell that to Ricky Steamboat.

:(

You've got to have a hot heel in order to make a hot babyface.

It takes one of those once in a generation (or two) guys to just get over huge as babyfaces on their own.

Punk has white hot heat right now. I think I've gone off point a bit. I just don't see Ryback as "The Guy."

Even then, they still need a heel to go against.

He has only been around for a few months in a role other than squash matches.

Until Royal Rumble... yes, probably. They've kinda cornered themselves to where it's gotta be Ryback vs Punk at TLC and it will be a TLC match meaning Ryback doesn't have to get pinned to lose again. Really no way Punk loses though as to set up Rock vs Punk at the Rumble so it's likely to be another "rogue security guard" type finish as you called it. I'd go as far as to say the TLC thing is much more than just random speculation.

Everything you've booked after that is completely random speculation. I can totally see Rock beating Punk at the Rumble and I wouldn't be too surprised if Punk somehow retained via some crazy finish/run-in.

I continue to agree. Punk is the hot heel. I think it's someone who isn't currently involved in this angle who could be "The guy."

I just see Rock going for a people's elbow when Lesnar runs in, F5, Punk retains. NO DQ match of course. Sets up their WM match.

Even Goldberg won the US title from Raven to get more over. It seemed like one week Ryback was squashing two jobbers on SD, the next he's in the main event at HIAC. We have to assume The NXT guys and Brad Maddox going to be Punk's security.

And it was a shitload more intriguing of a main event than WWE had put on in a long time.

He got a huge reaction with the big stars. You've said yourself WWE needs big stars, so why not test the waters with him. It isn't like WWE put the strap on him.

What, waiting to see who ran in to save Punk. I was surpised it was the ref but still...
So you support Ryback becoming "The guy" in WWE. I don't at least as of yet. I think this is one of those cliche and cheesy "agree to disagree" type of deals.

I do support Ryback's push but regardless...

The whole intrigue of that match was that whoever wins it's going to be a huge deal. You don't get that often anymore. It was a "big fight feel" because of it. And the fact that it was in the cell made the whole idea of someone interfering more tricky.

There was a very real possibility they put the belt on him.

Yes, but I wish they would have him feud with upper end heels that weren't the top heel to see instead of this. They need the guy who every week when his music plays the arena errupts. I think it speaks to their lack of depth more than anything. Come on James, let me back in. What did I do?

And yeah, Ryback has stood in the ring with CM Punk and had an entire crowd chanting his catchphrase. It's not like they're just forcing him on people.

You are complaining about WWE trying to create a new star just because they aren't doing it the way you would like despite you clearly saying they need new stars.

They probably planned on doing just that until Cena got injured and they had to rush Ryback into the picture because, like you said, they didn't have a guy who could step in and make a main event feeling match and Ryback was the fresh face who could do it.

Ryback stood in the middle of the ring with John Cena and CM Punk - the hottest superstars of the past decade and not only held his own with the crowd, but was taking in majority of the crowd.

Punk is going to get to number 6 over Cena and seeing that may have made Heyman legit emotional. He may have not been in the back smoking a joint with Van Dam as he likes to say. Once he gets to 6 that's it. I doubt they will hold it on him for 3 years like number 5 aka Morales. I just didn't see that possibility. I do like the concept that anyone can win the title which is why I loved Punk's first cashing in of the MITB. Can't argue that.

I just think it's too fast which they have a history of doing. That Sac crowd helped Ryback when he first clothleslined Punk. Crowds themselves are a different subject for a different day. No matter how great the preformers are, dead crowds just kill any buzz.

If it was Chicago, NYC, or Philly, or some other well known smark hotbed I'd see your point but Sacramento and multiple crowds have gone bonkers over Ryback.

As I think, it's also hard because of dead crowds to get someone over. I'm willing to give this is a chance. I just hope my fears don't verify.

If crowds and such aren't your barometer for how over a guy is...then what the fuck is?

Sac has a history of being a decent crowd. It was discussed in that Raw thread. Maybe I'm just waiting to hear a pop that simply is never going to be there. I'm thinking of going to Raw next month since it's coming here.

Crowds will never be like they were during the Attitude Era because of the amount of kids and parents who won't act like belligerent drunken hooligans. Crowds will also never be like the 80s because kayfabe is dead. The modern crowd is still excitable, but when any crowd outside of your go-to hot wrestling markets react to a star like they did with Ryback then you know you have something special.