All that to say rtd is right and AEW should be letting us know what's what without expecting us to watch 5 shows a week

We went to a RAW or something in like 2012 and I started a "we want Maven" chant outside that got some traction. Was fun.

Shane Douglas also walked right behind me in the crowd during that show.

They’re definitely bad at explaining every thread (and following them through). I think the presentation of the promotion and it having such an indy feel means it’s going to have an indy appeal. Those kind of fans are not going to carry you further. It’s a disservice to make wrestling so arcane.

It’s who they choose to feature, how they feature them and how they explain that.

@ron/schreech/noid



so is this oversaturation or is it simply poor communication? is likely both but which is the chief offender?

I can’t pick one over the other. I think it’s oversaturation. I think having Rampage and all these other shows hurts more than helps. But there’s no good excuse for the communication side of things.

But I don’t like the what of their stories most of the time either. They just don’t do it for me.

both certainly play their part but i'd place it more in the poor communication camp. it's not like they do a great job of hyping their YouTube stuff on TV as far as i can tell. there may be a reason for that? i dunno but i have watched dozens of decent to solid promos for guys they are trying to build disappear into the internet abyss and never see the light of TV.

i feel like they have the depth and talent to fill the time they have if utilized properly. but time is beginning to show TK is still booking for his fantasy feds and that's only going to take you so far.

Good thought. :y:

I personally don’t know about the talent. There are obviously some good guys there. But a lot of the people considered good, by the fans and the company, are just generic indy style bums to me. The older I get, the more off-putting I find people marking out for a guy who kicked out of a finisher like it’s any big deal.

The modern style is just not going to work for me. But I think they could choose different people to take the spots and fill two hours way better. And agree with your thoughts on booking.

I think they need to reformat their show and make the champ the main focus. I like a lot of what they do but not having your top champion be the focal point of the show is hurting his run.

Definitely communications.


Youtube could be invaluable to them, as it is easier accessible than their weekly cable shows. They could post a swath of info there and/or link it to their site to "fill people in". That definitely has early millennium vibes like the top 8 of MySpace..... but it could help in terms of "who TF is this new vanilla midget?"


They badly need someone with "expertise" in the booking area. There's definitely been a big pattern to weekly TV that is easily noticeable, and has become as predictable as other wrestling products. RTD is right, they have the talent and roster depth...... now let's make it make sense.


Still, easily the best wrestling show to watch on TV. I sincerely cannot wait until WWE fucks off with their shaky cam shit.

You know I totally agree. The modern style of wrestling is "better" in some ways, imagine if you were the kid version of you and were able to see a 2022 Dynamite match after watching years of WWF Superstars. You'd be blown the fuck away. But yeah we get that every single week, match after match in both WWE and AEW and anywhere else.

I call it Hyper Speed wrestling. I feel like it really got to this level with Ricochet and Ospreay had that Super Juniors match that pissed Vader off so bad. Since then NJPW went to hyper speed for almost every big match, then ROH copied and PWG took it to a whole new level. It seeped into NXT and took over and of course worked it's way to the main roster by default.

You can't change it at this point it just won't go back. For me I can still enjoy Hyper Speed wrestling but it does match a two hour show a bit up and down for me. However generally speaking AEW PPV's which are all on hyper speed are fucking awesome. I think at least they are only doing 4 a year so it really feels like "something special" to have a 4 hour wrestlefuck fest on speed.

You definitely can slow it down and be fine. CM Punk proves that with every one of his matches. A lot of the guys just kind of suck and don't get the point.

Here's a simple way to break it down:


Old school: Tell a story and get a reaction by selling


New school: Get pops by flipping and kicking out of finishers

the guys on top, who actually sell the tickets, always slow their shit down. when you're training kids half of your time is spent repeating "its not a race"

I recall being told once....




"It's been 2 minutes, you've ran through 3 sequences. Why? Don't blow yourself up so quick...." and some other stuff.

I am not an avid consumer of their work, but it’s why whenever I do catch some New Japan, Okada and Tanahashi stand out to me. They find time to breathe. I’m just not impressed by a guy running into a corner, jumping over the top rope and springing off with a moonsault without even checking to see where his opponent is.

It makes such a difference. And I could hear the argument that it makes top guys stand out, but I think it runs people off, because the undercard of things can just be so counterintuitive to what people expect from conflict. Gives everyone who might be inclined to say “You like that fake shit?!” a reason to laugh at it and walk away instead of becoming invested like they once might have been

The work doesn’t take enough blame for running off people.

:y:

More and more I find myself annoyed at people who still go for the flipping like they haven’t seen it a million times before now though. It’s fucking boring lol.

I respect what you’re saying here. I don’t really agree with the AEW PPV point and feel it started to boil over before even Ospreay/Ricochet and has got a whole bunch of different sources, but I get what you’re saying here.

For the record, I think BOSJ ‘95, ECW, The Radicalz, casual fans getting run off, Triple H, ROH, CM Punk, Bryan Danielson and Meltzer have all contributed to the circumstances that make this shit en vogue with such a loud and vocal segment of the audience.

Overall, I think that since kayfabe was put on life support and no one tries to keep it up, there’s been a shift from reacting to the action to reacting to a perceived quality of the performance. There are guys that “deserve” main event runs (the story of Benoit and Eddie’s rise), and guys who “don’t” (a large part of Cena rejection).

Yes the origins of the "hyper speed" style can be debated and do go back even to Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid. Regardless of the origins it dominates now. I was really hoping that AEW's "sports presentation" that was mentioned early from Cody (before the TV deal), would bring with it that sense of "kayfabe".

It's almost like AEW has replaced kayfabe with "smarkness". Like to know the internet culture, Meltzer's taste etc... that's who the company caters too and even so much that it's nearly acknowledged on a constant basis.

There is a lot of talent available to do something "else". Freddy Prince Jr still making statements about starting his company. I'd like a show that keeps it simple, kayfabed, with high production values. Slow it down, totally try and teach the audience what wrestling is. Tell us why there are no closed fist punches, use that as a heel maneuver, explain why wrestlers do irish whips and how that isn't a technique used in any other combat sport... make the fakeness and bullshitness of pro wrestling make sense through kayfabe.

This is actually where Tony Schiavonie shines on color, he can make the dumbest shit work in a fayfabe sense. At least enough to suspend your disbelief.

I feel like there is a way using kayfabe to enhance simplistic wrestling so that we don't have constant spot fests and so many tiny guys flip flopping around.

I like to see a company come along that can become financially successful without feeling the need to take over the world. Just be a successful company with a strong fan base. If a TV deal is pressuring you constantly to be as big as WWE, then don't take that deal. There are plenty of ways to get a show over it doesn't have to be on cable TV anymore.

I dont mind Rampage, but it is not really needed. Other than the Live Editions I don't usually care to watch.

The Youtube shows though are required viewing in AEW's universe. They stick somebody on their for 3 months with no TV exposure, then suddenly expect their entire audience to know why suddenly that person is ranked high and in title contention.

Scorpio Sky was undefeated in singles competition for over a year, and nobody knew until they mentioned it on TV during his quick build to the TNT Title, but at least he is somebody known with credibility.

For most fans, Dark and Dark Elevation might as well be house shows and should not factor into storylines, and certainly not positioned as something AEW should assume fans watch.

Maybe if AEW would focus more within and stop acknowledging WWE so much, they'd build a self sustaining culture. They should memo everyone to please stop talking about WWE unless they are being nice to their friends on Twitter or whatever.

focusing on WWE doesn't really matter. They just need to stop catering strictly to smarks. That doesn't mean becoming WWE-lite, either. It just means going back to the basics of good pro wrasslin, seen frequently when TPWW Watches Classic Wrestling Thursdays at 9.

FTR were on renee's podcast today and discussed this philosophy directly: work viewers by manipulating their emotions, not wowing them with your moveset. they made it sound like putting together that recent match with the briscoes was a great example of that (i haven't seen the match but believe it), while putting together a match with the bucks was more about making sure everyone gets their spots in. that's me reading between the lines, though.

the bucks seem to understand the elements of pro wrestling in all its parts but not as a sum. They can do the moves. They can sell. They can work babyface. They can work heel. Elements of ring psychology show up in their matches.

But they can't do any of it all that cohesively and in a way that makes me view them as anything other than indy guys who got lucky.

Part of it likely is their obsession with "moves," and "getting their shit in," as you said, Ron.

At the end of the day, I'd rather watch a mediocre Steve Austin crowd brawl after he broke his neck than a Young Bucks (that doesn't involve FTR) with every move hit to "perfection." Because Steve Austin was the fucking bees knees, limitations or not. Hell, I'd take a 1986 Hulk Hogan house show main event over a Young Bucks match, because it's honestly just them wanking themselves.

It's similar to how certain guitarists play for the song, and others like to solo to show off how great they are, and it's fucking boring and nobody gives a shit other than the nerds.

Agreed. The NWA is trying to do that, and it’s the most enjoyable product out there (in my opinion), but it’s in such a state that it can’t really get that footing it needs to not look rinky dink.

This doesn’t help. It’s off-putting to some, but it also firmly plants their feet in counter-culture. They need the WWE to respond to. Without that, they don’t really have an identity.

Think about how many of your friends and family like watching movies. There are some who will know the really big actors and such. But how many people can tell you who directed The Avengers films? How many people can tell you the name of the actor who plays the woman in SHIELD? How many refer to her as “Robyn from How I Met Your Mother?”

There’s this assumption that wrestling fans are interested in this giant backstage network of information and drama. Some people actively don’t want wrestling to be anything more than wrestler A wrestling wrestler B without it being any more arcane than that.

1.61 million for RAW, down from last week's 1.64 million

Embarrassing.

That is what they get for not featuring Chad Gable. Those 30k people will no doubt be tuning into Dynamite this week. There’s no coming back from that kind of mistake.

Did people freak out whenever WWE would mention AEW on TV?

AEW being so much less significant than WWE, shouldn’t that have been much more egregious and bush league than AEW mentioning a brand that has been synonymous with the very form of entertainment they’re producing for decades?

If I could recall them mentioning AEW on TV. The only references I can really think of are like when Seth mentioned Mox in a promo. I vaguely recall someone taking a shot at them without explicitly saying so once too but not who it was....maybe Pat? Regardless, them even acknowledging that AEW exists is an extremely rare occurence.

fwiw, I don't watch NXT other than takeovers so I dunno if AEW was mentioned there or not during the head-to-head era.

On the other hand, AEW does it constantly and you know it.

I know of a couple off the top of my head. Neither were the ones you mentioned. I also don’t watch the show but I am aware of Sami Zayn mentioning AEW by name on Raw and Triple H taking a direct shot at them in a HOF speech.

I still need to see that Bucks-FTR match. It’s fascinating how good FTR is at forcing anyone they face into an actual wrestling match.

Still, these are instances that are very few and far between as opposed to almost every single show where someone has to allude to WWE. I mean ffs they are running a gimmick trying to make fun of WWE. The situations aren't really comparable.

What gimmick is that?

Triple H and Shawn Michaels cracking jokes with their friend Billy Gunn about his new employer was lighthearted fun, and it was months before AEW even had their first show. Sami did mention AEW, but it was not a shot at AEW. He was calling the fans out for asking nonsense questions when they could have asked about anything, "even AEW".

So WWE has made a reference to AEW on TV twice (three times if you want to count HHH and HBK each having a joke for Billy), in 3 years. AEW exceeds that quota every single show.

Jericho only has an entire Heel Faction that are Heels simply because of the premise being "We are Sports Entertainers, we beat up Pro Wrestlers".

The Jericho Appreciation Society is clearly trying to make fun of WWE and you know it Fan lol. I guess I should have said faction instead of gimmick though maybe.

Holy shit @ #fan trying to make it sound like the WWE comments about AEW are on par with AEW’s about WWE. :lol:

So an arrogant heel using the term “sports entertainer” is the same as mentioning WWE now?

Lol I love it when this dumbfuck pretending to have me on ignore still feels the need to comment and completely gets the conversation wrong. :lol:

Seph be like...

None of my posts were even quoted. :lol:

Cumdorx desperately trying to get his heat back after yesterday’s embarrassment.

Take another leap, Rawtard. The big boys are having a conversation.

I knew Punk got embarrassed, but not that bad. Jeez. And yeah, that’s basically appropriate for whenever #fan tries his whataboutisms.

The embarrassment of me letting you know you wrongly assumed I had you on ignore when I didnt, or the embarrassment of you spamming my Rep wall for a month while I have not paid you any attention?

I am embarrassed guys

*Xrod posts a direct response to a post of mine and then quickly deletes it.*


That embarrassment. The one where I exposed you as a liar again. You forget already?

I read your posts. I don’t remember seeing you had him blocked. I have him blocked. And this is where his GOTCHAs have sunk to now. They’re not even about the actual subjects.

I can also see this piece of shit is still using words based on certain ableist language in 2022. Edgelords do that when they’re feeling insecure, lol. Listen to him cut a promo on you too. “Yesterday’s embarrassment…” Projection much?

He. Adds. Nothing. We’re over here trying to have a discussion about actual ratings (snarky or not), and he’s just looking to pick contrarian fights. Say we live on Earth and see what he says.

Again bro, that was in 2020. 2022 is a while different time :rofl:

Way to GOTCHA ME in 2020, even though I admitted it in 2020, even though you quoted me where I admitted it in 2020, that STILL doesn't make 2020 become 2022.

Also, you having to basically acknowledge I outsmarted you again. Not that I’m bragging because again, it’s an INCREDIBLY easy thing to do.

If you really wanna get your heat back you should try quoting another old post where so praised John Cena. REALLY got me with that one.

It was for a day in 2020, that is the WIN he is talking about :rofl:

Two proven liars trying really hard to excuse their lying shithead ways. Sad.

Holy fucking shit. Psycho.

Has he actually been able to address what Seph pointed out about how obviously ridiculous it is to make it sound like WWE and AEW are on the level with their shots at one another?

LOL outsmarted me by MAKING me reply calling out your incorrect assumption that, and this part is important, that in 2022 I never said I had you on ignore, that you achieved no GOTCHA, and that you are STILL upset that I ignored you for a day in 2020 :rofl:

Yeah, ya really got me Fan, why dont you go on a Rep Rage again :wave:

Can the bitch stay on topic or is he just trying to derail today’s embarrassment with ad hominem attacks at you?

Take a WILD guess :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Sorry to all the people who come into this thread for proper discussion, but there is an entertainment quality to #1-wwf-fan getting CM Punk’d again and again.

My guess is that #1-wwf-fan is a little sad Raw gets better viewership than Dynamite and Rampage combined. Honestly wouldn’t surprise me that it just comes down to him picking a side a long time ago and it not working out. BigCrippyZ just made himself invisible when the “Vince is going down!” trash talk was not going to fly.

#1-gormless-fanboy

I’d say you live in your own fantasy world. Case in point: This post you’re too much of a chicken shit to face…

Keep embarrassing yourself, bitch. We all know you’re pretending to ignore me because it’s the easiest way for you to avoid reality. Having to defend your dishonest bullshit when you get called on it is hard, isn’t it guys?

You tell us, have you responded to Seph yet? :yes:

Correct. And look where you are now. That leap worked out well, didn’t it? ;)

Lol @ #fan calling anyone else dishonest. His whole thing is picking sides he doesn’t believe in to pick fights with people. And no. He won’t respond to Seph, lol. Don’t be ridiculous. That would require he actually has a discussion that doesn’t derail into insults because it isn’t going the way he wants.

Guess not, but also, have you responded to Seph yet? :?:

Or are you just shitting up the thread with Weird and Obsessed outbursts?

He will not respond to Seph. He knows that was too ridiculous a stance even for him.

Yes. It was 2 posts after his post. Just after Noid began his desperate attempt to get his heat back and just before you. I know it may have gotten lost in the dipshit duo’s latest frenzy to try to save face but it’s not hard to go back and check before you ask a question in a smarmy manner.

Lol God, I would feel bad making fun of people this insanely dumb if they weren’t also so arrogant.

Its cute how you think asking a sarcastic question is actually providing an answer whatsoever.

So how about those ratings?

Through the roof!

match ratings or tv ratings? Because you deserve 6 stars, Seph. You're a Tokyo dome classic in my eyes.

Seriously, let’s do this.

Is SmackDown the only show that’s holding up? Or is it also slipping?

I’m interested to see whether or not Roman Reigns being able to go between the two shows helps Raw or hurts SmackDown. I don’t think we’ve had enough time with it yet.

I’d just like to point out that I’ve thwarted Seph’s attempts at stirring the shit multiple times and now he succeeded without actually trying. Lol

Re: ratings - I fucking hate the match rating/star system in recent WWE games. Just let me squash people in a "championship mode" to unlock other characters. Don't care to have a bunch of 5 star matches.

Unrelated to TV ratings but fuck it

needed to be said. Thus, it was said.

Jesus, is that really a thing? True to life I guess.

This is just the Ratings Thread. It doesn’t specify which ratings.

That sounds like it would be an AEW feature (they made it a part of Omega’s actual on-air presentation for a while). I don’t hate the idea that you get rewarded in-game for the difficulty of execution or something. It’s not unworkable, but I can understand why it’s annoying.

cant believe guys still do favors for him after this

lol that really is embarrassing. Holy shit.

this guy, who is a total bum btw, went out of his way to embrass punk and did it EFFORTLESSLY. and i really need to stress he's a complete bum. this is his 1 and only pro fight. he's a joke. was brought in specifically to job to punk in his home town to try and build him up.

ive never seen something so humiliating

That one was worse than the first one by a country mile. It doesn’t hinder my enjoyment of Punk currently. But man that gif…

I'd never want to show my face in public again.

Lol I don’t really have a problem with people who think his credibility in wrestling suffers because of his failure in MMA though. As long as they don’t also brush off other guys losing wrestling matches constantly because “wins and losses don’t matter”.

Either you think wrestling should be treated as a real combat sport, in which case losing in wrestling hurts your credibility just like losing in MMA or you’re fine with it not being treated as a real combat sport, in which case losing “real fights” don’t hurt your credibility.

:lol:

It really is bad. Like…that shouldn’t happen in a pro fight. People say it shouldn’t matter what happened in UFC, but how can you know that about Punk and still invest in him trying to be Bret Hart serious and suspend your disbelief?

Bret Hart would actually fuck CM Punk up in a real fight.

Bam Bam Bigelow got absolutely smashed by Kimo Leopoldo in a fight. He basically rolled around on the ground like a beached manatee.

Most wrasslers wouldn't make it to the end of a round. Some because they'd be too winded by the halfway point, others because they simply wouldn't "know how".


Too different.

Yes. You earn these tokens to "buy" certain rasslers to use. And you have to have competitive matches to get a better star rating to earn more tokens per match.

I hate it.

Sadly, it's been in the past 4-5 iterations of WWE games. It is shit. I've not bought one since Flair was the collectors edition though. Have a replica HOF ring of his and a plaque with a piece of his robe from one of the many he wore to the ring kinda like this


https://www.blowoutcards.com/wp/wp-c...E5831_1024.jpg

I like the game in general, but just...reward me for squashing someone in a few minutes too. I don't care if the in-game fans think the match was "boring." I get that aspect for MyGM mode, but for a regular exhibition match it's dumb as fuck.

I bought the deluxe edition for 2k18. I have no idea why I did because I didn't get any sort of collectible thing.

I did, however, preorder WWE 2k16 solely because The Terminator was the bonus. No regrets on that one.

I am pretty sure ANYBODY would fuck CM Punk up in a real fight, and that is the problem. It is not JUST that he lost MMA fights, it is how embarrassingly bad he lost those fights. Pair that with him still trying to act like he is a badass, and being virtually unbeatable in pro wrestling, it is just eyerolling. His first promo telling Darby the most dangerous place to be is in a ring with CM Punk, like OHHHNO how will Darby survive the dude that couldn't even stop Mike Jackson from tickling him in a fight??

It is more believable that Wee Man was actually able to beat up Sami Zayn than it is Punk being able to beat up anybody.

Many Pro Wrestlers have an actual athletic background, and would hold their own. Certainly they would be more successful after training in MMA for 3 years.

Not much into Rogan's politics, but here is a good accounting of CM Punk's ability.

An athletic background =/= an mma background. I'm not defending Punk at all here, I believe a lot of other wrasslers would end up the same way.

I would surmise only an actual combat background would really help. IMO the best base is amateur wrestling (at a high level). That way you can grab hold and beat someone up. Because even if you've got high-level Muay Thai, most MMA fighters will just drag your ass to the ground.

Exactly that.


It's great if you can deadlift a lot of weight, but to do it from a position where leverage comes into play while being made into a slinky, it's a different kinda weight.


There's a word for it, but I can't remember what it's called. "functional" training or some shit like that.

Either way, if someone excels at the art of pro wrestling to the level that Punk does, I’m not gonna reject it because he’s not a REAL fighter.