lol why does it matter what it looked like on paper if it worked on the show?

Jerichos run was overrated....except for Jericho.

jesus christ Noid

Ahaha back in ecw they had a super famicom with a version of fire pro. Stevie richards made himself really strong and tazz really weak, and tazz wanted to legit fight him over it.

I bet Stevie Richards would have won that one.

Taz had a legit background tho didn't he? I know he's not as tough as he thinks he is but he could prolly take Stevie.

I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that everyone in the ECW lockerroom kicked Taz's ass at one point or another.

And I'm a Taz fan.

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Yeah, and the shit I heard was good I went out of my way to watch. Jericho is fun, but none of it made me go "Holy shit! Wrestling is good again!"

Because people are crediting what it looks like on paper.

Have you ever seen a good actor in a shitty movie? Jericho was chewing the scenery. It doesn't make the show substantively good. Jericho was funny at times and he did manage to make himself really sympathetic for the Owens program. Jericho is really, really, really good. That doesn't mean everything they gave him to do was good.

Bad ideas executed well aren't necessarily good ideas. And it doesn't take a genius to say "Hey Jericho, go and be Jericho." It's nice to see Jericho making money from the company, but I could have done without pretty much all of it. Far from Jericho's most significant or best work. Some people say that it is. I say that's overrating it by quite a lot.

Most of what I saw of it was Jericho polishing turds. That's got charm to it. And that's how I'd describe Jericho's recent run: charming. But give that shit to anyone else and it fucking sucks hard. I'd rather just not see the turds.

No Jericho couldn't make the show substantively good on his own. Did he make it better? Yes, at least during his segments. Would the show as a whole have been worse without Jericho there? Yes; we'd have had more of the same shit shoveled in instead.

When the show is comprised of a plethora of turds I'd rather my turds be polished.

That's exactly my point, lol.

Since when? Most people are crediting what it looked like on television, actually.

lol what? Who is doing this?

Also my initial question still stands: If it works on TV, why does it matter what it looked like on paper?

Presumably Hogan was just back from hanging out with his skater buddies at the mall given what he's wearing. :wtf:

I've been watching some 2000 WCW and it's actually not nearly as bad as people want to remember, there was some cool stuff; however, Mark Madden is the worst color guy of all time. He's so fucking annoying, he add nothing to the story of anything and constantly tries to peak through the fourth wall and attempt to "be the voice of the internet". He's truly horrible at this job. It was pretty fun though watching Tank Abbott strip him down so that the world could see how disgusting and obese his body is.

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That's about the first time I've seen giant haystacks where he was much slimmer compared to the size he was in later years. Yet they still bill haystacks as 31 stone (434 lbs) and 6 ft 11 (realistically about 6 ft 5 tops). He must have been about 61 stone (over 800lbs) stone then in later life as he was more than twice that size in the vid easily. :lol:


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And here he is in the 80's giving a reporter a Dave Schultz. :lol:

It was literally being discussed because Jimmy Jacobs was credited with writing it. It's not something that got over because it was some genius piece of crafted fiction. It's something that got over because Jericho is so fucking good. With anyone else it's just another tag team splitting up (which is what it turned out to be anyway).

This is Russo taking credit for the This is Your Life segment. No one was like "Oh, This is Your Life...awesome!" It was "holy shit, The Rock is funny." There's nothing inherently good about a "Festival of Friendship" idea. In fact, it sounds fucking shit. Jericho stealing the show despite this made it fairly memorable for modern stuff. Alleging that Jimmy Jacobs is some sort of creative genius for helping Jericho get dumb stuff over is a far cry from him being a good "writer" or even booker.

More power to the guy. I liked the Lacey stuff. But WWE has vastly been shit. He has been helping writing it. I'm not going to think the dude is an amazing writer now just because he's outside the big evil company instead of contributing to it.

God, people are so easily worked. Jimmy Jacobs could give your average internet fan's sister herpes, then get sympathy from them because his dick's itchy. And people say that kayfabe wouldn't work today.

You sure do talk about dicks a lot...

Love Jericho, but any notion that he can easily turn bad writing into sure fire entertainment can easily be debunked by his own youtube show. Incomprehensible.

Lol, I don't listen to Jericho's show, but I'll take your word on that one.

Chris Jericho is the Alan Rickman of professional wrestling.

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Let's not be too fucking hasty here...
We are talking Alan Rickman here........

10 points from Fastwaydore.

I barely know or care who Jimmy Jacobs is. If he wrote it or didn't, or took credit for it - who cares?

My question, which you still haven't answered even in this essay, is why does it matter what it looks like on paper if it worked on the show?

Whether or not you like who wrote it or how it seemed it would be is irrelevant if the end result is something you've admittedly enjoyed. Jericho was given an idea to work with and he crushed it, as usual. Are you unable to just enjoy that part of it without bitching?

New Cruiserweight belt

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Make sure to stop by and join the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LuchaParty?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LuchaParty</a> in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEYakima?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWEYakima</a> vamonos Orale!.. <a href="https://t.co/bOIiWDszkN">pic.twitter.com/bOIiWDszkN</a></p>&mdash; KALISTO (@KalistoWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/KalistoWWE/status/919704142674771968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Better looking belt imo.

That Tweet with that pic makes him seem like a male stripper or something.

What’s new about the belt?

Seem to recall they were "pissed" about Rey Rey *specifically* being on TV, and that they had to blur him on any re-airings or some shit. But oddly, anyone else who was caught in catering when that went down was a non-issue.

Because that is what we were talking about. It's the whole conversation.

Your question is not pertinent. I have very purposefully avoided engaging with it.

I actually didn't enjoy the segment. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I can accept that people generally enjoyed it though. I'm not a big fan of Jericho's latest run. I just appreciate him as a talent. But I could do without the list stuff entirely. It's been well-received though, so whatever. My point is just that I believe he deserves all the credit for that, because the things he was given to do were, in my opinion, terrible. You can disagree with me on that, and that's fine. But your question about how it ended up isn't relevant to my line of thinking, because how it was exists outside star and performance is entirely my concern.

And before you go and ask the same question again, that is because that is what I am talking about. I don't care if something is shit when it is written and then turns out to be great, except when I am talking specifically about how it is shit when it's written. Within that context, yes, that is everything to do with the point I am making. Why were we talking about that? Because I asked what Jimmy Jacobs did and someone said "He's been given credit for this," and I said "Eh, I don't think he deserves credit for that." That is what we were talking about. Who takes credit is the subject matter. Not whether or not that ultimately matters.

I think they just traded the purple for black. I wonder if there is 205 Live re-branding coming? I mean, the belt is just the belt, but the purple was largely to match the aesthetic.

So, they saddle the poor guy with a gimmick they botched to begin with (I still believe the original fucked up so much in no small part because of the dimmed lighting during all of his matches) by first having him be all "Fake Undertaker" about it, then being more of a stereotypical "SoCal Mexican thug" than Konnan was in WCW, then throw him *back* under the mask to become what was supposed to be the ultimate cruiserweight- the second coming of Mysterio- when there wasn't even a cruiserweight division anymore. Then, they finally take great pains to build the little guys doing a limited amount of flippy shit (because WWE, so they can't go all out), and now he's "too big"?

Dude needs a total repackage or a goddamn release. And I don't mean because he sucks at his job, but because he's deserved better for a long fucking time.

I like Hunico, but I wonder if I have real reasons to. Like, he's strong in the ring and I liked him unmasking and he did some fun stuff with Daniel Bryan, but I also wonder if I am seeing more potential than is actually there.

But man, when he lost that mask and then got the stereotype gimmick with Tanga Loa? Wow. I felt so sorry for the dude, because it was done right away. It would have been nice to see him get a little bit of focus.

I don't mind masked characters being kept away from Kalisto because you don't want to saturate people with masks, masks, masks. You kind of want them to stand out. I mean, they could just clearly define each guy and what their masks mean, etc. But they're not going to do that. Still, I've always said that they should always have built to Kalisto vs. Sin Cara with the mask on the line.

My question is absolutely pertinent. You said the segment was great on TV but looked average on paper, which is a ridiculous statement. I asked why that matters, but for whatever reason you continue to deflect with essays.

I was not asking about Jimmy Jacobs. I don't care if you like him or not. I was, and still am, asking why a segment that you enjoyed can't be seen as good because it "looked average on paper." It is completely relevant as it was a direct response to one of your posts.

I realize that I'm not talking about what everyone else is, but I asked you a direct question. It's really not a hard question by any means. Though you've proven lately that you're a moron (or just an asshole), so I guess it is for you.

I think Hunico should have been a solid midcard guy instead of a constant "wait, he's still employed?" guy. Consistent US/IC threat and/or transitional champion for someone they're looking to actually build.

Because we are talking about how it would look on paper. I don't really know how to make it any clearer, dude -- I'm sorry. We're talking about how good a dude is at scripting television and you're like "Well, why does that matter to your enjoyment of television?" But the enjoyment of it is besides the point, because we're talking about the scripting. Of course great performance can elevate shitty material. That's completely in line with what I've been saying. You're like agreeing with me, but then arguing with me about something that isn't even in the conservation? I don't think I am a moron, but I am confused as to where you're coming from.

The smart criticism of my position would be "Ah, but by providing Jericho the platform to steal the show, does he deserve the credit?". That would at least be about what it is about. I mean, it's silly anyway, because we don't know what Jacobs did and didn't come up with. It's scuttlebutt. But I was responding to the automatic assumption that he would be a great writer, because I was wondering if evidence of that was out there. Even if he had good ideas, they were probably nixed anyway. I'm sure he can do brilliant work. I'm just saying it's not like the dude is Heyman with this proven streak of brilliance that can actually, for example, help SmackDown outdraw RAW.

It would have been nice if they actually tried.

I doubt they want him there honestly, given his penchant to beat up guys. Actually, who won between him and Jericho?

Great, now that I've asked that, someone is going to come in and ask "But how does the outcome effect how entertaining Jericho is? Can't you just enjoy him as a wrestler?"

Goddammit, this isn't that deep. But I'll explain it since you're missing my point.

I am aware that other people are talking about Jimmy Jacobs getting credit or taking credit for a segment.

You praised Jericho by saying segments he is in shine because he is great.

You then said that despite a segment he was in shining, it looked average on paper.

I asked, in direct response to that specific point, why it matters how a segment looks on paper if it works on TV.

I did not mention any specific segments or Jimmy Jacobs, though again, I understand that others were discussing those things.

My question is a direct response to your point about a segment working on TV but looking average on paper.

I don't think how a segment looks beforehand is relevant when it is well-received on TV. That is what I am asking you to clarify.

I'm not sure how much clearer you need me to be.

In some contexts yes, but in some cases no. In this context, yes. I feel like this should be obvious.

Are you a politician? You're excellent at not actually answering questions.

You're great at being a dick about it, though.

I literally just answered your question with two very short sentences. Does how something is written matter if it's successful? Well, yes, sometimes. When you're talking about the writer or writing, absolutely. I'm sorry if that isn't the answer you want to hear.

I asked why you think it's relevant and you answered "yes, sometimes."

It's not that difficult to understand. If the segment worked on TV (i.e. people enjoyed it), why does it matter how it looked on paper?

Do I need to phrase it another way for you to get it? I'll do my best if that's the case.

Oh, sorry, I thought you asked me if it is important, to which the answer is "Yes, sometimes." The writing matters because we were discussing the alleged writer. I suggested that I don't think the writing made that segment good. I wasn't talking about whether or not that matters to the layperson, the company's bottom-line, or to someone's own personal enjoyment. I wasn't even really discussing if the segment was good or not. I don't think it was particularly good. I will concede it was well-received, but I've said that I think that is because of Jericho, and not because of the quality or form of the content.

When you're discussing whether or not you'd hire a writer for something, whether or not they are a good writer is absolutely something I would look at, yes. I felt like that was explained earlier, but maybe it was unclear.

AND, to clarify: I am not saying that Jimmy Jacobs is necessarily a bad writer. I just don't think he did good writing in the WWE. Or there's no available evidence he did, anyway.

Had the same :wtf: at his outfit.

If you're asking the question "Do you think that a good product that seems to have shit writing must actually have good writing," then no, I don't necessarily think that is the case. Sometimes things that look great on paper flop, and sometimes things that look shit on paper succeed. But they don't always fly or fail by the quality of the writing. Sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't.

If your veiled question behind all of that was "Don't you think Jimmy Jacobs must be a great writer if the segment worked?" Then no.

What isnt there to like about the list, Noid? Props are super important visuals in wrestling.

Cruiserweight title belt is different. WWE 2k18 is already outdated.

I've already said I don't know/care about Jimmy Jacobs. I'm just confused as to why it was a big deal that an (apparently) average-looking segment on paper did well.

As a fan, I'm happy it went over well. Whether or not the writing was top-notch doesn't matter. It's pro wrestling. The writing doesn't have to be stellar when there are performers who can crush it on a weekly basis.

They're super-important in any kind of story-telling, really. I just didn't think it was as funny as other people. I didn't mind it. It's good for merchandising too. I just think it was low-hanging fruit and very "easy." Jericho gets mad and says "You just made the list!" Crowd pops like trained monkeys, even though Jericho is the heel. I dunno, that's wrestling.

I mean, it did remind me of his 1,004 holds list, and I wondered if there was some sort of link. If that was deliberate, that was kind of cool. It just didn't "grab" me. I felt like Jericho was just a bit goofy. I get why he did it -- he's old, he can't be doing serious wrestling machine Jericho stuff all the time. It just feels a little decadent to me. But good for him. If anyone deserves it after all those years of being, in my opinion, underappeciated he deserves to just stand there and bask for a little while.

Philosophically, I'd agree with you if it were being crushed every week: I'm an advocate for less writing in pro-wrestling and a return to booking. Maybe Jacobs would be a phenomenal booker? Then he could get away with just letting Jericho go out there and be Jericho, because then that would actually be his call. But that's not what we were talking about.

On a cruiserweights/video game-related note, I heard they were getting paid only once off for their addition, with no additional royalties.

Lol it was literally the most over part of the show.

Depends on if they show up to RAW to try and sell merchandise, I suppose.

Yeah, I know. I think that says a lot about the show.

Thought it looked different and not purple at the house show I was at..... thought it must have just been the lighting and the distance away I was.....

A lot of years back it seemed like every-time a smackdown game came out kane reappeared with a new mask making those games outdated as well. :lol:

Game doesn't have the vocal version of the Usos theme anyway so it was automatic TRASH on day one... ish.

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I recall seeing this “darker”/black version before, then it was purple on tv. Looking at the picture it still looks a little purple to me, so I thought it may have been the lighting.

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Peyton Royce is straight sex. Love her.

Do you reckon they could just have Hunico come out in tights/trunks/sans mask and “start again” with him in the midcard?

I don't see why not.

Maybe get that gold bike back, though.

Yeah, I think you might be right. I got suckered in because I was looking for a difference, haha.

I was thinking that they should at least milk something out of it. Hair vs. Mask against someone or something. But you could probably just do some Sin Cara/Hunico dual identity thing.

He's probably not that valuable, in truth. But I'd like to see them give him a shot. Put him against Chris Jericho or something. I dunno, I've just always liked him. His springboard in the Ladder Match at WrestleMania 32 was my favorite part from that match.

Even just changing the strap to a darker color makes it look 100x better imo.

Hunico is very good in the ring. I would ditch the mask and put him on NXT where the wrestling is more of a focus, and build him back up from there.

Sin Cara Azul vs. Sin Cara Negro really sticks in my mind. There was something about Hunico's story of being a dude who got his gimmick stolen and then came back for revenge that appealed to me. I get the NXT idea. I wouldn't be upset if they did that. I've always thought they should do this with Epico and Primo, honestly, given that they are another two dudes that know what they are doing, but have just been exhausted on the main roster.

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Lol @ that one ending

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I'm doing some Hunico FCW research:

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That progress ending. Wow.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Impact Wrestling is teasing the announcement of “IMPACT PIZZA” in a new press release. <a href="https://t.co/M9WCDtGBOz">pic.twitter.com/M9WCDtGBOz</a></p>&mdash; Ryan Satin (@ryansatin) <a href="https://twitter.com/ryansatin/status/919980681429520384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Those jokes are too easy.

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Miss Daniel Bryan

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Johnny Wrestling :love:

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I do love Daniel Bryan. I'm very curious to see what happens when his contract comes up.

Could see them try to release him a day before it expires to hit him with a no-compete clause but that would only affect the US I think and he's teased at wanting to go to Mexico first.

If they try to pull a Del Rio with him and include international, Bryan probably does the same Del Rio did and threatens to go to court over it.

WWE will offer Bryan a lot of money to stay. It just depends on how much Bryan wants to wrestle and how much the WWE are willing (or able?) to budge on that. My personal prediction is that Bryan signs with WWE. I think he could squeeze so much out of them...but will he?

Vince will hate that too. There's also that Bella Brand to think about. If Bryan leaves the WWE, does he make things too tense for his wife's career? There's lots of moving parts in this, and I hope Bryan appreciates that.

This is just me going off on a crazy tangent, but what if he positions for some sort of creative control? He can do so much as a wrestler, but if he given his own show to book or whatever? He could change the entire landscape. Would Vince consider that being bent over a barrel? I'm sure there's a way Bryan could present it as "I want to work here, but I also want to make an actual difference." "Fine, whatever, here's your shot."

I'm not predicting that, but man, just imagine a Daniel Bryan and Paul Heyman run SmackDown, with Bryan and Heyman implementing a 5-year plan or whatever, where it's run something like it's own promotion, with Vince simply as the money.

Who was Bryan talking to at the end of that compilation video?

D-Bry was so solid on NXT.

Jervis Cottonbelly showed up on the last New Legacy stream and I'm in tears.

SCUTTLEBUTT ALERT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMWis5TX...jpg&name=small

Neville is one thing but Nia Jax walking out seems really spoiled and ungrateful to me.

Worth noting as well that they were the first site to break the Neville thing.

She probably got wedged in a doorway and they're still trying to free her.

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He has my vote and I don't even live in Knoxville

Who is saying all dat mess

And yeah Jacobs probably wanted to get canned... and he did it in a memorable way George Costanza would even envy.

lol charming