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LOL, this is brilliant. :rofl::rofl:

Yeah, I'm not buying that either. My dislike for them aside, I accept that they make a sustainable living off their geek shows. I think New Japan would pay them four digits per match, but there's no way they are making as much money as AJ Styles was with them. Over the past year they wrestled for New Japan 22 times. So New Japan would be paying them <$176,000. This is pure speculation on my part, but I don't imagine them paying The Bucks -- who are sizzle more than steak for their shows -- more than $2,500 per match. Even that seems steep. But I'll give them that, which takes their annual New Japan cheque up to $55,000. Not bad.

My gut tells me that ROH probably gives them a downside guarantee of $60,000 or something. I have no evidence of this, but just given the lack of funding they really seem to put into things, I sincerely doubt they are keeping The Bucks employed for $500,000 or anything. Jesus. For dudes who are trying to make a living off basically what corporate types would consider low-rent acting or stunt work, $60,000 downside is fucking generous.

That takes them up to about $115,000 with their New Japan/ROH work. I'm not sure if they get a cut of buys and that sort of thing. But when you figure in a bit of merch, and I'm sure they move a couple of hundred Bullet Club shirts, and they probably charge PWG, CHIKARA and other indies a few thousand per appearance. They're treated like bigger stars there than they are in Japan, and the appearances are more sporadic. I can see them charging $3,000 per appearance. They did 11 of those in the past year. That's an additional $33,000, taking them up to $148,000. I doubt they make more than 5% of that on merchandise. Do The Bucks even have their own merchandise, or do they just pimp Bullet Club shirts for New Japan?

I think $155,400 before Irwin R. Shyster comes a-calling is a generous estimation. That's honestly almost double what my gut wanted to guess (I was thinking in the $80,000-$100,000 range), and more than double what they are worth.

Keep in mind that The Bucks are always bragging about how much money they earn in conjunction with their brags to creative freedom. In artists' terms, that usually just means they're not starving. $150,000 is not bad money by any stretch, and I doubt that the WWE would offer two scrawny kids set to be a tag team act that much money out the gate. Given their stature in independent wrestling and how they'd probably just want to polish off certain things about them, I can imagine developmental offers were probably in the $60,000 range. They could probably work their way up to what they make in Japan and the indies very quickly in the WWE, but keep in mind that is weighed against what they perceive as their freedom. They put capital on that, so $150,000 and freedom > $200,000 and being chained to the man. 50% of their t-shirt sales totaling $10,000 > 5% of their t-shirt sales totaling $10,000. That sort of thing.

But anyway, if The Young Bucks made over $500,000 each, that means that they would get paid over $6,000 each per match. That's $12,000 to book The Young Bucks for one match. If tickets for a PWG show are $65 p/head, then the overall gate is going to be $32,500. That means The Bucks would make about a third of a show's gate for their appearance. That just doesn't add up. Truth be told, my earlier estimation of them making $3,000 each is probably a gross overestimation, because that means that The Bucks are still making over 1/6 of the gate.

I think The Bucks gloat because they have a weekly paycheck from ROH for over $1,000, which covers their living expenses, and they are basically guaranteed garnishing from Japan and the independents.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if The Bucks didn't crack $100,000. Especially when you factor in tax, etc. If AJ Styles got paid $8,000 per appearance with New Japan, I'd put The Bucks, as a collective, at definitely half as valuable as that. It's the contrast between headliner and opening act. I gave The Bucks $5,000 total, but it wouldn't surprise me if they made less: $2,000 each, or $44,000 a year. It wouldn't surprise me if ROH paid less too. $60,000 might be a bit steep. Developmental deals are usually about $25,000 aren't they? They'd pay The Bucks more than that, but can you imagine them getting something like three times that? These dudes have to shower with the other guys. I'm sort of imagining that the ROH deal they were offered was somewhat in lieu with WWE offers. Honestly, $40,000 from ROH might be more accurate. That's $84,000 from New Japan/ROH, and that is where the bulk of their money would come from. Looking at that as their sort of annual pay, it explains why they are so cocky knocking back $40,000 developmental offers from the WWE -- they are earning twice as much without them, but probably not quite as much as Xavier Woods, who doesn't get, statistically, as big a slice of his merchandise as The Bucks do, despite Woods no doubt selling more.

No one's gonna read all that

I will say that Kevin Owens has said that at the height of his popularity in the indy's he was "living well but definatley not rich." Young Bucks probably make around $100,000 a year, MAYBE $200,000 but I think that's def pushing it.

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They also get cuts of that Bullet Club shirt money from PWT.

Yeah, but I bet they aren't making $900,000 off that.

Could see it be somewhere between $500k-$800k mainly because they work for at least 3 big to semi-big indie promotions, plus special appearances for others, plus a cut of Bullet Club and other merch, plus their own shirt store at Prowrestlingtees website.

When they signed a new deal with ROH and NJPW, it was stated they were getting pay raises from whatever they were currently making just from those 2 places.

If their pay was actually low, they would have jumped to the WWE years ago. Bucks stated several times about they get paid more in the indies and get to travel less than what would be the case in the WWE.

NJPW supposedly also pays established indie names pretty well overall considering WWE had to spend over $1 million to nab Balor although that also included buying out his sponsorship deal(s).

I don't think $150,000 is low.

Is Brock Lesnar's contract still up after WrestleMania next year? I had this musing on the possibility that Brock Lesnar, Bryan Danielson and CM Punk could all potentially end up in New Japan by the end of 2018. It's very unlikely, but not impossible.

For someone of their demand and status in the indies, that would be really low especially if it was spread across 3 companies (NJPW, ROH, PWG) plus any other bookings and merch stuff.

That would be around low card but probably not jobber tier for yearly amount in the WWE based on rumors and reports about WWE contracts.


Yes and very likely he's gone afterwards based on recent reports. Just way too much money for the WWE to keep committing to a part-timer.

Sounds like Billy Corgan needs to pony up all that Smashing Pumpkin money and throw it at Lesnar, Bryan and Punk. If there was ever a way to compete with WWE...

I really want The Rock to start his own wrestling promotion. I've got no clue why he would do it, but it would make me mark out.

Karl Anderson was making 750,000 in like 2012

DOUBLE TRIPLE POWERBOMB!

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Scott Hall looking great.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBrD5_TXcAA8rMy.jpg:large

Like, from all the stories about DDP, we'd know that he would have helped Scott Hall and Jake anyway, but goddamn if they;re not the biggest adverts for DDP Yoga he could possibly ever need. We know the before and afters are totally legit.

They're also a tag team.... They might be lucky to get $500K combined.

BTW for clarification this number is per Buck not for both combined.

That can't really be Scott Hall......

Can't wait for the Duggan and Sean Mooney podcast coming out. Duggan is a trip and is probably one of the most honest wrestlers around. Sean Mooney should have some interesting production stories too

Was on his twitter feed

I could post a headless torso on my twitter feed and claim it was me too

If that is Scott Hall -- good for him. I wonder if he sent it to Paige? Him versus El Patron at Lockdown.

That's interesting. Would you say that Anderson had, overall, more significance in Japan though? Do you they put emphasis on the junior tag teams or their heavyweight tag team guys? I know the heavyweight division was stale to American audiences, but how do the Japanese grade pay? It seems like it would be a lot more hierarchical.

I read somewhere that a few years ago, Tanahashi was making $800,000 a year. I'm sure it's crept up into the millions now (I think Okada is signed for $2.2 mil), but I just can't see them forking out $1.5 for The Young Bucks, total.

Noid!!!!!!

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Does Vince say "fuck" at the rude awakening around the 50 second mark? Looked like a badly taken one to say the least.

POLISH POWER!!!

Dalton Castle signed a new deal to stay in ROH.

You can watch it, or just skip to 2:00......you're welcome ;)


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Good for Dalton. I know a lot of people want to see him in the WWE, but look at how they've treated Fandango and Tyler Breeze. Look at how they've treated American Alpha. Castle is sort of like between them. I think he's probably better off waiting a few more years, getting better and better, and then trying his luck with WWE again when he has more capital.

Wow! This is cute. Super cute.

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Ten years ago today the current President of the United States thought Vince McMahon died in a limo explosion.

Dang..... no video clip I can find of that...... in all of my less than a minute of searching........

jacked off and shot it in my face.

Ok there, Xero

It's actually not. I just fucked up and used the wrong word and didn't proofread to catch that. Since this was a couple of days ago, I don't remember what I actually meant to say.

This remains one of my favorite wrestling podcasts in the history of wrestling podcasts (I'm not assed to look up that Schiavone pic right now).

But seriously, this story is up there with the "rivalry" Talk Is Jericho between Cody (Rhodes) and Xavier Woods.

... why not both? A joint venture on a start-up. And if they don't come up with a TV deal, they could go the WCPW internet route. It's not like nobody would pay attention if Billy and Rocky joined forces.

Get Wale and Rick Ruben in too.

Hey this is your friendly neighborhood Bad News Gertner reminding you that it's Spammy season, so head over to the Spammy Thread and throw a vote at Bad News Gertner for Best Poster.

http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=133512

In my opinion, you are all best posters.

She just wanted Hogsworth

https://68.media.tumblr.com/ea46c8f1...a7mho1_400.gif

Heel heat aplenty.

Kinda wish Ryback toughed it out a few more months in WWE probably would have gotten a good push on SDL

I wanna see John Morrison back in the WWE so badly.

But I enjoy reading your reviews.

Samoa Joe is the #1 contender and he beat Seth Rollins the next night.

Bray Wyatt continues to be a jobber.

Randy Orton keeps saying "My father said back in his day people like Jinder wouldn't make this far" and other borderline racist stuff.

Dolph and AJ are experiencing 50/50 booking.

Raw
Part 1: http://prowrestlingtalk.org/video/nrdMDwF5.html
Part 2: http://prowrestlingtalk.org/video/jnjsF4bm.html
Part 3: http://prowrestlingtalk.org/video/7Pchj7vc.html

SDL
Part 1: http://prowrestlingtalk.org/video/VNTXmYVE.html
Part 2: http://prowrestlingtalk.org/video/tTTmsGNr.html

I can't fathom what it must be like in 2017 to miss an episode of Raw and Smackdown and care enough to ask what I missed. :(

According to PWTorch, rift between Triple H and Vince has grown backstage at least in regards to Creative stuff.

Triple H is frustrated because all the work being done to help develop and build people on NXT gets wasted once Vince becomes involved. PWTorch mentioned Bayley, Sasha, and the Cruisers as people Triple H is frsutarted the most with how poor the booking transition has been.

In terms of Bayley, WWE is going to give her a small character reset because of how badly her booking has been on the main roster.

Did anyone watch the NJPW Dominion show? I've been hearing a lot about Okada and Omega's bout.

Was really good overall. Maybe even better than Wrestle Kingdom 11 as a whole.

Only saw okada vs omega. Amazing match. Want to get nj world again, but fuck, they need an app on xbox and ps4. You can't use the console browsers.

Nice. Might find some alternative means to watch the event online.

Not sure if there was a reason for no Xbox app but supposedly Sony said no when asked for Japanese wrestling apps on PS4.

I guess that can be attributed to the difference in content consumption. Japan is very unique when it comes to advertising and web design principles. What works here, may not work in their culture.

http://www.nicovideo.jp
http://www.rakuten.co.jp
https://www.goo.ne.jp
https://okwave.jp
https://www.yahoo.co.jp

Oh god, this.

Nice little shot at the end.

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Miz vs. Morrison would be such a grand IC Title program around WrestleMania time.

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I find them to be very amusing. Thanks for sharing, Fastway :y:

Remember when reigning WWE Champion, Hulk Hogan put over the IWGP Heavyweight Championship as the most important title in the world?

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So apparently this weeks Raw scored the lowest ratings this year. Could it be that maybe Brock Lesnar just isn't the super draw that he use to be? Or will all the blame for this be placed on Samoa Joe?

The correct answer is: who cares about the ratings?

Just feeling cynical.

In regards to Joe/Lesnar: I would be less concerned with the overall rating given that the whole crux of the show was in the first ten minutes and then the next three hours was like someone dissecting a septic tank on live TV.

There's only one solution.

http://www.f4wonline.com/sites/www.f...afreeagent.jpg

Lesnar might have been the reason why it wasn't the lowest ever though because the 3rd hour killed the show.

Then again like Dark One said, RAW was pretty much downhill after the Joe/Lesnar segment.

Haha! So good. NJPW is entertaining.

Weird. As Hogan is saying "I want to make sure my career ends in Japan," you can see how disingenuous he is.

I wouldn't blame either. They got them out there in the first segment. And who watches wrestling these days, anyway?

Isn't the point of a short-arm clothesline to trap your opponent so they can't avoid the close-range impact? So what Okada does is just lightly hold his opponent's hand, and what they do is stand up for the Rainmaker on their own merit?

Wrestling is not real.

This philosophy is what I call "geeks ruining wrestling for the nerds."

I'm a life long wrestling nerd, no question. However, I can also appreciate what those two put on, the semi-comedic nature of Omega at times and just "lol" at that lil moment.

Nearly every hold, even the basic "collar and elbow" lockup is done with a very light touch.

I just think it's a dumb spot that falls apart if you think about it. Like, suspension of disbelief aside, I can even explain the psychology of things like the Red Arrow. I just don't get why Okada touches the wrist of his opponent if the beat-down he had put on them previously would cause them to collapse if it were good enough. It just eats itself and it's dumb and annoying, because Okada is so good. But I know a child would watch that and say "that's fake" and tune out, because their fandom hasn't been embedded yet.

I swear wrestling is the only form of storytelling where the performers of it hate that they are doing it and need to point it out to the crowd. It'd be like an actor going "I'm acting everybody! I'm just an actor! I'm playing a character!" We get it. We know. Why are you so insecure that you need us to know that you know? Or is it because fans are so insecure that we need to know that you know that we know? It's just so insecure. And that everyone is so insecure is why we don't have any real stars coming up -- because everybody is so neurotic and secretly hates themselves, and that there is no star is the big problem with wrestling as a whole.

I can't believe people can't see how this is all connected. I want NJPW to succeed so badly, and I'm glad that it endears itself to the the internet fans, because they are going to be crucial to floating it in the US and beyond, but if that shit happens in the main event then I might just have to switch off. That's the one spot I've seen shared from that match, and it just feels bad to me. Why do people like bad stuff? Bad stuff is bad. It's the "Broken" Matt Hardy stuff all over again. Shit things don't become good by winking.

I don't even think this was supposed to be bad. I guess they're trying to sell exhaustion? Okada is so tired that he forgot to hold onto Omega's wrist? Maybe Omega was supposed to break out more strongly and he just sucks at the psychology element of pro-wrestling? I'm sure it doesn't ruin the whole match, don't get me wrong, but it just highlights to me how full of shit anyone who says "Kenny Omega is the best wrestler in the world" is. It's like he starts playing a good song on the piano and then he just starts slamming his hands on the keys to "lol" people.

So many wrestlers are like disruptive high-school kids undergoing adolescence and acting out against teacher because they think it's cool and will make girls like them. That's like the "indy spirit."

Its not bad. Everyones suspension of disbelief is a little different. There are people who probably thing the red arrow is retarded from a realistic standpoint, no matter what you say to explain it.

I think we're moving into a post-fact realm here, and I can't really engage in that sphere.

Noid, I could write an essay if I wanted to on things that are far more ridiculous than that spot. Things that you probably didn't even blink at, but for some reason this has you triggered.

How is he supposed to just know it was good enough. Last match Omega ate 3-4 rainmakers. Your logic assumes okada knew omega would collapse from the beatdown.

You got giddy earlier about john morrison coming back, but I don't see you attacking the fact that a guy capable performing incredible acrobatic and aerial feats, finishes people with a move that kills his momentum a few feet before he lands, and has less impact than anything else he does.

Most people don't think about that. Because it looks cool.

https://i.redd.it/ex67siyzki3z.jpg

Wonder Woman/Universal title crossover.

Of course there are things that are more ridiculous than it. That doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous. I'm sure there are ridiculous things I don't blink at, but the ones that do register as ridiculous are still ridiculous and take you out of a match. That's a ridiculous point to make, lol.

He's going for his finisher. If he hasn't beaten down his opponent to the point where they are about to be finished, then why is he going for his finisher? Why does he touch their arm if he's not pulling them into the move? It's dumb. It's not the dumbest thing I have ever seen, but it's still dumb.

I actually don't like the Starship Pain, but acrobatics like that in wrestling don't annoy me as much, because I can buy that an arrogant heel would do something like that to embarrass his opponent. It's just like The Rock's theatrics before the People's Elbow. For a babyface, moves like that do look cool, and they become something of a stamp for that wrestler. You could always logically just come off with an elbow and monitor your opponent's position a bit more, but if you've assumed that you've put them in a position where you've gotten them relatively discombobulated, it makes sense to finish them off with emphasis so that you can increase your fanbase/make a statement.

It can still be silly. If you've got your opponent beaten, you should go for the win, sure. But what I can't stand is the obvious co-operation stuff. The "I will run into position for this because I want you to hit me" stuff. This falls into that category for me. What it implies is that every wrestler that gets hit with the Rainmaker wants to be hit with it. Otherwise they would have surely flopped to the ground too, since Okada doesn't actually pull you into the move. Surely you can understand my gripe with that?

Well I make that point because if that takes you out of a match, then how does every other ridiculous thing in wrestling not take you out of the match? Because almost all of it is ridiculous.

Why does any wrestler go for a finisher if they have them beaten down to where they are about to be finished?

Okada was just as exausted and just didn't have the strength to yank him forward hard enough.

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All power moves fall into that category, as you can visisbly see the victim cooperating to be more easily lifted. Any irish whip move requires the victim to cooperate because logically you don't have to run in a straight line, or you could just, ya know, stop running.

I don't look at how believeable stuff is, because to me at least, its not about that. If I wanted to see something believable, I'd watch matches from the 20s where they put each other in front facelocks for 8 hours. To me its about the overall story they tell in the match. (and this is what I tell non wrestling fans when they ask me why I watch it knowing its fake) Its about people telling a story, using just body language, facial expressions, and feats of athleticism. Individual moves and spots don't have to be believable, as long as I'm enjoying the story. I'm not going to get out my microscope and dissect a spot that logically doesnt make sense, when it followed a dozen other things including common manuevers that make just as little sense when thought about.

Maybe he won't be over as they think he will be in India

That's a better attempt to explain it. It's still goofy lol. You could also hypothesize that Okada overestimated the gas Omega had left in the tank and threw himself into the clothesline because he expected Omega to be in strong style mode. I can actually almost trick myself into liking it if I use it to tell the story of Okada for actually thinking so highly of Omega he overestimated him, but that means Omega is dumb for not being as good as Okada thought. And Okada looks dumb for taking the dive. I don't think it's the best way to tell that story, but you guys seem to like it though, so maybe I am in the minority of the dwindling wrestling fans.