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-   -   NJPW - TPWW ***OFFICIAL*** Discussion Thread -- New Japan of America announced (https://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=134865)

Evil Vito 06-09-2018 06:59 AM

Callis isn't exactly known for his subtlety so him mentioning the white towel Ibushi has me thinking something's going down with that. We'll see.

Emperor Smeat 06-09-2018 07:17 AM

The timing of when the Rainmaker and One Wing Angel finally hit was genius. Once one happened, the other loomed as the huge threat remaining in the match. Same for the booking of both finishers being hit the first time.

Emperor Smeat 06-09-2018 07:18 AM

:eek: Omega busting out the Styles Clash.

Evil Vito 06-09-2018 07:30 AM

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Emperor Smeat 06-09-2018 07:31 AM

SPOILER: show
OMEGA DID IT .... NEW IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION

https://i.imgur.com/EGb1O5N.gif


IWGP Heavyweight match was legendary.

Evil Vito 06-09-2018 07:34 AM

SPOILER: show
First fall was a great twist, and Okada getting the first fall still leaves some doubt

Okada to win G1 probably

Emperor Smeat 06-09-2018 07:38 AM

SPOILER: show
Yeup. Okada getting first fall also protected him when he suffered the next 2 falls afterwards since he can still claim he would have beaten Omega if it was a normal match

Evil Vito 06-09-2018 07:40 AM

SPOILER: show
Looks like Cody will be Kenny's first defense

Ol Dirty Dastard 06-09-2018 08:08 AM

Jericho vs Naito was great (just watched it). So happy he stopped trying to hold-for-hold with guys in their physical prime and instead is wrestling matches that are "supposed" to be kind of clunky and heavily based on psychology.

Ol Dirty Dastard 06-09-2018 08:09 AM

and he's also somehow a babyface to the crowd lmfao guess he reminds them of Hansen/Brody with his mannerisms/style

Evil Vito 06-09-2018 08:28 AM

Osaka were the crowd that REALLY turned on Naito back when NJPW were trying to force push him like Reigns. Them still shitting on him now that he’s actually well liked is kinda cool unintentional continuity.

Ol Dirty Dastard 06-09-2018 08:30 AM

Not huge on Callis and Kelly's commentary but like how they acknowledge the booing.

Simple Fan 06-09-2018 01:36 PM

Pretty great show, only outcome I didn't really like was the Never Openweight 3 way. Main event was great and so was the IC match.

slik 06-09-2018 01:46 PM

How was it -- is it worth watching?

Simple Fan 06-09-2018 01:49 PM

Yes

Emperor Smeat 06-09-2018 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5131705)
How was it -- is it worth watching?

Yes. Whole card was pretty great overall. Usually with NJPW, the undercard or early matches can be pretty skippable but they were good as well at Dominion.

#1-norm-fan 06-09-2018 10:02 PM

SPOILER: show
So The Bucks, Elgin, Omega and Jericho are all champions now. Is this just NJPW really trying to appeal to North American audiences?

Emperor Smeat 06-09-2018 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5131784)
SPOILER: show
So The Bucks, Elgin, Omega and Jericho are all champions now. Is this just NJPW really trying to appeal to North American audiences?

SPOILER: show
Probably a mix of Dominion being the event in recent years for mass title changes and NJPW just wanting a quick boost of interest for the upcoming Cow Palace show.

Safe bet at least Jericho and maybe Elgin are dropping their belts at the US show since NJPW's upcoming UK show now lacks belts based on who has been booked for it.

Dark One 06-10-2018 02:40 AM

Just finished Dominion.

Goddamn. Feel like I just watched every Game of Thrones season finale at once.

Gonna sleep for like two days.

Fignuts 06-10-2018 06:19 AM

SPOILER: show
Love the Suzuki vs Ishii interactions. Can't wait for the inevitable singles match.

Always respected the Bucks athleticism and creativity, but never cared for their spot heavy style. In recent months they've adjusted their style and focus more on story telling and selling, and it all culminated in this match. Fantastic bout that shows just how well the bucks have evolved.

Mysterio looks and moves better than he has since WCW. No exaggeration.

Jr heavy bout delivers as usual. Expecting an obituary for osprey one of these days.

I fucking hate Elgin. Not for what he did, though that was obviously bad. I hate him because he makes me want to like him despite how gross it feels. Dude looks FUCKING AMAZING since cutting weight. And his performance was equally impressive. Someone please tell me there was an update and that chick was a lying druggie or something.

Very surprised at Jericho winning but I have to imagine he's dropping it back to naito or to evil at the g-1 special.

I haven't marked out that hard at the end of a match since Benoit won the title at Wrestlemania. Seriously, what a fucking masterpiece. Every fall telling a different story. And the whole thing backed by their storied rivalry and Kenny's journey to this match.

This is what long term booking gets you. WWE has all but abandoned it and thus haven't gotten an emotional response like this from me in 15 years.

Incredible show.


Fignuts 06-10-2018 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5131784)
SPOILER: show
So The Bucks, Elgin, Omega and Jericho are all champions now. Is this just NJPW really trying to appeal to North American audiences?

SPOILER: show


Think it would be naive to think it didn't play a factor. That said, I don't think its a problem as they all are deserving of what they won. Not like they said "Hey we're going to India. Let's put our most prestigious title on this jobber because he's brown!"


Fignuts 06-10-2018 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dastardly One (Post 5131661)
Jericho vs Naito was great (just watched it). So happy he stopped trying to hold-for-hold with guys in their physical prime and instead is wrestling matches that are "supposed" to be kind of clunky and heavily based on psychology.

I've said for a while that part of njpw's strength is the diversity of styles on display, and Jericho being a vicious street fighter just adds yet another facet to that.

Jordan 06-10-2018 11:52 PM

Young Bucks vs. Evil & Sanada, Jay White vs. Juice Robinson, Okada & Ospreay vs. Naito & Bushi, Omega vs. Cody all at Cow Palace on 7/7

Jordan 06-10-2018 11:54 PM

To me this is Cody's first big main event, I'm pretty pumped for it. I don't see him beating Kenny and taking the IWGP Title though, so that might affect the way I view ALL IN vs Nick Aldis.

Destor 06-11-2018 12:12 AM

Watched this today wonderful card. Flawless execution throughout. Outstanding

slik 06-11-2018 02:00 AM

Cow Palace card sounds fantastic

Mr. Nerfect 06-11-2018 05:28 AM

I think I might actually check this show out. Some of the results surprise me, but none of them "shock" me. New Japan is great like that. The sporting feel means they can get away from story arcs as real life can break like that.

Mr. Nerfect 06-11-2018 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dastardly One (Post 5131661)
Jericho vs Naito was great (just watched it). So happy he stopped trying to hold-for-hold with guys in their physical prime and instead is wrestling matches that are "supposed" to be kind of clunky and heavily based on psychology.

:y: I haven't watched Jericho/Naito yet, but this evolution of Jericho feels like the way a worker should age.

Evil Vito 06-11-2018 10:02 AM

Just tossed a proposed list of G1 participants into a randomizer and here's the blocks in came up with.

Block A
Cody
Kazuchika Okada
KUSHIDA
Michael Elgin (don't want him in, but he's going to be in)
Minoru Suzuki
SANADA
Tama Tonga
Tetsuya Naito
Tomohiro Ishii
Zack Sabre Jr.

Block B
Bad Luck Fale
EVIL
Hirooki Goto
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Jay White
Juice Robinson
Kenny Omega
Kota Ibushi
Togi Makabe
Toru Yano

In terms of participants, I went under the theory that there are only two guaranteed openings from last year (Satoshi Kojima, Yuji Nagata). Jay White is definitely getting one of those spots, and I decided to give some love to KUSHIDA who as others have mentioned doesn't really have much left to achieve in the Juniors.

But at Dominion they referenced YOSHI-HASHI being on the bubble, so I was wondering who would bump him. While I'm not sure they can actually get Cody for a full month, I decided to throw him in anyway.

These blocks actually have some fun stuff. Get to see Ishii and Suzuki have their slugfest. The inter-stable battles of Naito/SANADA and Suzuki/Sabre would be fun. KUSHIDA vs. anybody would be grand.

The real highlight of Block B would of course be Omega/Ibushi. If they aren't planned to wrestle each other in the Dome, then putting them together in the final day of Block B presumably to decide the finalist is workable.

Based only on this group I'd guess an Okada/Ibushi finals, sticking with Okada winning it.

Simple Fan 06-11-2018 11:04 AM

Cody was asked about this year's G1 on twitter and said:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">0%<br><br>I've got a new project that runs mon-fri all the way to <a href="https://twitter.com/ALL_IN_2018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ALL_IN_2018</a> <br><br>Those two items alone, and some pretty large matches on the schedule. I'm full up. <a href="https://t.co/d3VA6jsGw1">https://t.co/d3VA6jsGw1</a></p>&mdash; Cody Rhodes (@CodyRhodes) <a href="https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/1004870009250832384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jordan 06-11-2018 11:29 AM

Looks like Jericho and The Bucks are going to team up for a six man on the Jericho Cruise.

Evil Vito 06-11-2018 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simple Fan (Post 5132240)
Cody was asked about this year's G1 on twitter and said:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">0%<br><br>I've got a new project that runs mon-fri all the way to <a href="https://twitter.com/ALL_IN_2018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ALL_IN_2018</a> <br><br>Those two items alone, and some pretty large matches on the schedule. I'm full up. <a href="https://t.co/d3VA6jsGw1">https://t.co/d3VA6jsGw1</a></p>&mdash; Cody Rhodes (@CodyRhodes) <a href="https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/1004870009250832384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like YOSHI-HASHI might make it back in then. Although Taichi getting a run would be fantastic.

Simple Fan 06-11-2018 11:35 AM

Taichi would be my choice.

Jordan 06-11-2018 11:40 AM

What qualifies a person for G-1 throughout the year?

Innovator 06-11-2018 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan X (Post 5132254)
What qualifies a person for G-1 throughout the year?

Being a competent heavyweight, or being Yano or YOSHI-HASHI

Evil Vito 06-11-2018 12:05 PM

YOSHI-HASHI and Yujiro Takahashi are pretty comparable I think. Two guys who, while talented, aren’t particularly interesting but the company’s probably not ever gonna fully cut bait as they came up through as Young Lions.

The dojo training is brutal, and the company wants to reward that and send a message that they’ll stay loyal to the guys who put themselves through it.

Innovator 06-11-2018 12:06 PM

Speaking of Yujiro, I miss Mao.

Evil Vito 06-14-2018 02:20 PM

I want Omega/Ibushi and Okada/Danielson at the Dome so badly.

Mr. Nerfect 06-15-2018 08:18 AM

I'm rooting for Danielson in New Japan too. And Brock Lesnar.

Mr. Nerfect 06-15-2018 08:28 AM

I should watch the show in order, but I've seen The Young Bucks vs. EVIL & Sanada and the six-man tag with the dream team babyfaces.

On the six-man:

* Rey Mysterio is a fucking gem. He looked so amazing and crisp in this thing.

* Tanahashi is such a great babyface.

* Cody Rhodes is such a geeky mid-carder.

* Marty Scurll was technically very good, but I don't get why he kept acting like a bird. It's like he's trying to be 1998 WCW Chris Jericho, but with a lot less natural charisma. He also did that geeky talking in the match. "Just kidding!" What the fuck is that?

* Hangman Page was trying his little heart out. It is obvious that he hasn't pieced it together yet, but it was a huge spot for him, I guess, so good for him.

On the Tag Title match:

* I should appreciate The Young Bucks slowing down and trying to inject some psychology into their matches. And I do. But it's very basic stuff they haven't done much of and need to get a lot better at if they're going to be true greats like they pretend to be.

* Don Callis is a fucking awful announcer. He was pissing me off in this match.

* The crowd laughed at Nick Jackson not being able to pull off the springboard. They fucking laughed at him. It was at this moment that it dawned on me that drama in wrestling may not exist anymore. The main events might change my mind.

* It also dawned on me in this match that this was exactly the sort of thing you would see in WWE. I don't mean that as an insult or a compliment. But this was just your typical WWE tag team match. They did all the match blocking like it was intended to heighten interest, ala Gargano/Ciampa vs. The Revival, but because it was a WWE tag team match, no one really bought into it the same way. It wasn't so much working that audience as it was performing a routine in front of an audience with things intended to work, in theory.

* The match wasn't bad or anything, it was just that gentrified and pedestrian "here's a tag team match; this is how tag team matches are worked these days."

Mr. Nerfect 06-15-2018 09:14 AM

I'd like to see the three spots in the G1 Climax go to Jericho, KUSHIDA and SANADA.

Evil Vito 06-15-2018 09:35 AM

SANADA was already a lock I think. From last year's entrants, I would say there are at least 16 locks to remain in:

Bad Luck Fale, EVIL, Hirooki Goto, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Juice Robinson, Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, Michael Elgin, Minoru Suzuki, SANADA, Tetsuya Naito, Togi Makabe, Tomohiro Ishii, Toru Yano, and Zack Sabre Jr.

Tama Tonga and YOSHI-HASHI are the 2 guys from last year that I'd say are on the bubble.

The only ones from last year definitely getting replaced are Satoshi Kojima (injured) and Yuji Nagata (retired from G1).

Jay White will be getting a spot as US Champion.

So that leaves one spot. Could be Taichi. But traditionally there is always at least one surprise entrant so who knows. KUSHIDA moving up? An AJPW guy? Rey goddamn Mysterio?

Jordan 06-15-2018 10:47 AM

I want NJPW to sign up a couple of indy hoss's. Keith Lee would be awesome, Walter would be great in NJPW... they need a couple hosses.

Simple Fan 06-15-2018 11:00 AM

Walter would be amazing in NJPW. I can just see him and Suzuki just beating the hell out of one another. Haven't really liked what I've seen of Lee though.

Ol Dirty Dastard 06-15-2018 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan X (Post 5134002)
I want NJPW to sign up a couple of indy hoss's. Keith Lee would be awesome, Walter would be great in NJPW... they need a couple hosses.

Keith Lee I think has already signed to WWE.

Simple Fan 06-15-2018 11:06 AM

They've offered WALTER as well but I think him being international is holding things up. I hope he doesn't see gn with WWE though, just don't think they'd use him right.

Jordan 06-15-2018 11:07 AM

I wonder how he will do in WWE. I don't have any faith in them creating a black superstar.

Jordan 06-15-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simple Fan (Post 5134015)
They've offered WALTER as well but I think him being international is holding things up. I hope he doesn't see gn with WWE though, just don't think they'd use him right.

Yeah I agree. If he can make big money doing the gambit or getting exclusive with ROH and New Japan that would be great. He still seems so young in his career, he's got a lot of room to grow into a mega star. I can imagine him fitting in perfect with Okada, Omega, Tanahashi, Naito and company.

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 05:37 AM

WALTER is definitely on the WWE's radar. I would like to see Jeff Cobb or Matt Riddle get more exposure in New Japan. I've been hearing good things about Shane Strickland too.

I did think of Rey Mysterio, but I'm just not sure if working such an intense schedule is the best thing for Rey or New Japan. It would be a huge boost to the tournament.

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 06:20 AM

Triple H has apparently said that he's open to working with New Japan. It could be classic pandering and Trips doing more to babyface himself when he knows full well he can't do anything with Vince still in position, but more so than ever I could see this being a possibility.

Bryan's contract coming up is an iceberg that could potentially be huge. Bryan can change wrestling. I've been thinking of it as an either/or type thing, but Bryan could push for the safety of the WWE contract with the reality show stuff for Brie, as well as getting a number of dates approved outside the WWE. I could see Vince and Trips using New Japan as a way to freshen up talent too.

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 08:53 AM

I’m no lawyer (maybe BCZ can help on this front?), but if WWE talent work elsewhere — at their own risk — does that somewhat mitigate the independent contractor (non)issue? Or at least get in front of it? I mean, if talent go to Japan and beat the snot out of each other (work), why should Vince front the medical bills at least a little due to wear and tear?

The Network is always looking for content too. New Japan is looking to expand. And there’s that tier pricing rumor. New Japan could either eliminate their OTT (which probably costs a lot) and rely on the Network’s wider audience OR they could keep it for the fans that already have it and hope your fan base is bigger in 10 years or whenever you stop housing on the Network. WWE can have a percentage of the gate of all shows they air, but you can get some of the WWE/New Japan crossover merchandising.

Vince increases his monopoly, extends the Network to being more than just WWE. ROH has no chance of MSG without the New Japan talent. Cody looks small time using WWE approved acts to draw his freak crowd. Harold Meij probably looks like a genius getting New Japan talent on WWE shows and getting WWE talent into New Japan. And that sweet merchandise money. We get Daniel Bryan winning the G1 and the IWGP Title and maybe even defending it at WrestleMania.

I was about to say “weirder things have happened,” but have they?

LibSuperstar 06-16-2018 12:26 PM

You've got a good mind for business, Noid.

Ultra Mantis 06-16-2018 01:12 PM

Triple H actually said he was open to work with ANYONE, so there's as much chance of a CHW crossover. He never said anything about New Japan. The British Tabloids are the ultimate shitlords and are just trying to spin a story out of it.

NJPW becoming a WWE offshoot where Zack Ryder can go to recharge his batteries would be the absolute fucking worst, come on.

Vastardikai 06-16-2018 02:45 PM

"recharge his batteries" or "try something new that could work."

To be fair, a great deal of the talent could use some greener pastures from time to time.

Simple Fan 06-16-2018 02:53 PM

If that's the case they can leave and join NJPW. I don't see why NJPW would work with WWE at a point where I hey are trying to expand. WWE has a monopoly on the business and a partnership would probably end up helping NXTs global expansion more so than NJPWs. You know WWE would spin everything to make them look superior to NJPW so I don't think it's smart.

Ultra Mantis 06-16-2018 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vastardikai (Post 5134685)
"recharge his batteries" or "try something new that could work."

To be fair, a great deal of the talent could use some greener pastures from time to time.

They could, or just time off in general, but why would you want to dilute New Japan with WWE midcarders just trying shit out? They have NXT already which would be much better suited to that. Not everyone can be Juice Robinson.

Evil Vito 06-16-2018 05:51 PM

I remember once thinking that they could do a temporary talent exchange where Cesaro goes into the G1 and Kitamura goes to NXT for his excursion since he appeared to be Vince's wet dream.

Then he got concussed and retired. :(

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis (Post 5134630)
Triple H actually said he was open to work with ANYONE, so there's as much chance of a CHW crossover. He never said anything about New Japan. The British Tabloids are the ultimate shitlords and are just trying to spin a story out of it.

NJPW becoming a WWE offshoot where Zack Ryder can go to recharge his batteries would be the absolute fucking worst, come on.

It wouldn't be Zack Ryder going to New Japan. It would be people they actually wanted to book, lol. If Ryder wanted a spot in the New Japan Rumble then maybe he inserts in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simple Fan (Post 5134701)
If that's the case they can leave and join NJPW. I don't see why NJPW would work with WWE at a point where I hey are trying to expand. WWE has a monopoly on the business and a partnership would probably end up helping NXTs global expansion more so than NJPWs. You know WWE would spin everything to make them look superior to NJPW so I don't think it's smart.

They can, but what if more people are like Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio and Jim Ross and want to work for New Japan, but also want to retain their relationship with WWE? What if Bryan wants to bucket list a Wrestle Kingdom but also wants to keep his wife's profile out there with the reality shows and throw more money into an account for his daughter?

New Japan have openly stated that they want to work with WWE. New Japan would benefit by getting more eyeballs on their product. Right now they only have 100,000 or so New Japan World subscribers. Going with the WWE means that their shows have a potential audience of 10x that size.

Vince having a monopoly on the business is more of a reason that this would be possible. Not likely, mind you -- because we do know Vince -- but possible. More so than ever he's got a bunch of talent with a positive relationship with New Japan and more of an artistic approach to the business. If keeping Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles and Shinsuke Nakamura means that he occasionally lets them do what Jericho and Mysterio do, I can see him saying "Fuck it. I want to be able to show it though." And it babyfaces him. He's the benevolent don of wrestling that lends out his talent.

Now Vince can not book New Japan talent. That is obvious. He doesn't really follow other products and is likely to have Okada lose on SmackDown to Tye Dillinger. But I imagine that it would be simple enough to have someone work as the liaison and work on the booking ideas/put together pieces for WWE television. If Brock is leaving WWE in August, then that could be a new role for Heyman? If they bring the commentary in-house and have Mauro/JR and Nigel McGuinness call the English shows, then Don Callis is someone who could move into that position. I'm sure Triple H would take credit for heading up something like that. In the first year, hypothetically, the presence of New Japan in WWE could be Chris Jericho defending the IWGP IC Title at SummerSlam against Tetsuya Naito in a semi-main, Suzuki working a Takeover against Aleister Black, Okada teaming with some babyfaces at Survivor Series (and surviving), Okada challenging Daniel Bryan for the IWGP Title at Mania (after Bryan wins it at WK13). For example. It doesn't mean Tanahashi has to be in opening tags against The Revival every week. But yes, how Vince would book New Japan is a big concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED (Post 5134782)
I remember once thinking that they could do a temporary talent exchange where Cesaro goes into the G1 and Kitamura goes to NXT for his excursion since he appeared to be Vince's wet dream.

Then he got concussed and retired. :(

This sort of thing is something that Triple H would definitely do, because he loves pandering to the internet crowd. And he's worked with New Japan before (Liger). How does it help Cesaro? Well, he gets to go and prove that he's the "best wrestler in the world" and comes back stateside, he gets the "yay, he's back" reaction and people are generally more into him given that they've been worked into thinking he's the best wrestler in the world. Japan made Albert and Festus "good."

NXT is always going to be looking for talent to restock itself, so sending young boys on excursion to NXT gives them a great chance to be packaged as something more complete. You wouldn't have 8 different Japanese guys running around at one time, but taking someone the New Japan office likes and having them work against some of the experienced guys there means you've got an emerging talent that you know you've got for (x) amount of time. And they will get more of a following than they would be working north-east indies or whatever.

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 06:53 PM

To clarify: I am not saying it will happen. If Bryan were, hypothetically, dead-set on working the G1 Climax, I imagine he'll just try and use a loophole to get out of his contract and take the time away from WWE and pick up the occasional dates -- ala Jericho and Mysterio -- with Vince probably not wanting to use him at all because he might view him as a guy that should still be working under him. He doesn't have that veteran cache in the same sense. But it does make sense for Bryan to sit down with Vince and say "Look, boss. I want to work under you still -- you've been great to me -- but there is just this bunch of stuff I've got to do too. I'm definitely going to go and do it, but it doesn't make sense to end our relationship because of it."

Ultra Mantis 06-16-2018 07:54 PM

Matt Bloom worked as Giant Bernard because he was playing the Gaijin powerboy hoss, currently the spot belonging to Michael Elgin. Scott Norton had the same spot and was IWGP Champion but nobody really gave a fuck about him in WCW the same way nobody gave a fuck about Lord Tensai. Not to say any of those three are bad workers, but it's a spot that only really applies in Japan and doesn't translate well once theyre back in the US. They even tried to subvert it with Albert and have him pretend to be the Japanese powerboy hoss. We all know how that turned out. You could put Cesaro in this spot and crush it but as soon as he returns to Smackdown he's immediately back where he was spinning wheels.

Gallows on the other hand was never a good worker or regarded as one, he was popular because he was in Bullet Club and people liked his promos but he was consistently the worst guy on the show in ring. He was basically doing what Camacho / Tanga Loa is now, but a better talker.

Liger in NXT was not done through New Japan, it was Regal asking Liger directly if he wanted to do it. Liger's contract allows him to work wherever he wants, Ibushi and SANADA were (or maybe still are in Ibushi's case) on similar contracts which has been cited as one of the reasons neither guy was getting pushed hard.

Jim Ross does not work for New Japan, he works for AXS, and again he does not give a fuck about the product and is only there because Mark Cuban liked him in the WWF and wants to give him money.

The way they've handled their partner companies in the UK has been basically poaching their top guys (British Strong Style mainly), sometimes forcing them to cancel appearances last minute and sending them Kassius Ohno, Jack Gallagher or Noam Dar for a one off appearance here or there to make up for it. I get the feeling that is what they would be "open" to doing with NJPW too, "Hey we need Okada, Naito and Omega for Summerslam so don't put them in the G1, thanks, we'll send you our next top stars: Baron Corbin, Jinder Mahal and Big Cass as replacements". And that's just worst case, even if they sent Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins etc it wouldn't cover the difference.

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis (Post 5134882)
Matt Bloom worked as Giant Bernard because he was playing the Gaijin powerboy hoss, currently the spot belonging to Michael Elgin. Scott Norton had the same spot and was IWGP Champion but nobody really gave a fuck about him in WCW the same way nobody gave a fuck about Lord Tensai. Not to say any of those three are bad workers, but it's a spot that only really applies in Japan and doesn't translate well once theyre back in the US. They even tried to subvert it with Albert and have him pretend to be the Japanese powerboy hoss. We all know how that turned out. You could put Cesaro in this spot and crush it but as soon as he returns to Smackdown he's immediately back where he was spinning wheels.

Gallows on the other hand was never a good worker or regarded as one, he was popular because he was in Bullet Club and people liked his promos but he was consistently the worst guy on the show in ring. He was basically doing what Camacho / Tanga Loa is now, but a better talker.

Liger in NXT was not done through New Japan, it was Regal asking Liger directly if he wanted to do it. Liger's contract allows him to work wherever he wants, Ibushi and SANADA were (or maybe still are in Ibushi's case) on similar contracts which has been cited as one of the reasons neither guy was getting pushed hard.

Jim Ross does not work for New Japan, he works for AXS, and again he does not give a fuck about the product and is only there because Mark Cuban liked him in the WWF and wants to give him money.

The way they've handled their partner companies in the UK has been basically poaching their top guys (British Strong Style mainly), sometimes forcing them to cancel appearances last minute and sending them Kassius Ohno, Jack Gallagher or Noam Dar for a one off appearance here or there to make up for it. I get the feeling that is what they would be "open" to doing with NJPW too, "Hey we need Okada, Naito and Omega for Summerslam so don't put them in the G1, thanks, we'll send you our next top stars: Baron Corbin, Jinder Mahal and Big Cass as replacements". And that's just worst case, even if they sent Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins etc it wouldn't cover the difference.

Oh no, people definitely think that Gallows is good. Your assessment of him is correct, but the perception definitely seems to be that Japan makes people better workers, regardless of whether or not it is true. Just listen to the crowds that got to NXT Takeover shows. Do you really think they are that hard to work?

On the Liger point: Do you really think New Japan would have blocked him from doing it? Contract allowing him to or no, I doubt he called up Tiger Hattori and said "Fuck you, I'm doing NXT Takeover. Wooo!" It was still a guy with a profile in New Japan working with WWE, which is more to the point than the actual contract structure. Jim Ross working for AXS is a similar thing. It's still a WWE guy not being locked down doing all WWE things all the time. Mauro still does his boxing. It's not like Vince is 100% "No, you must only work for me" 100% of the time, because there are these examples of talent -- granted, ones with a lot of tenure and/or with PR issues surrounding them (Mauro) that have their fingers in multiple pies.

What you mention at the end is a concern, but that is why you wouldn't structure it like that. New Japan talent would still work for New Japan. WWE can pluck those talents from UK shows because they are under WWE contract and value that more than those indy obligations. With actual go-between between the New Japan and WWE offices, they would be able to exchange talent in a way that doesn't step on anyone's toes. And it wouldn't be like 6 guys at a time. Well, they could work it -- I'm not sure that they would.

Ultra Mantis 06-16-2018 09:43 PM

I've never heard or read anyone praising Gallows for his ring work, plenty of reports about him being a good guy to have back in the locker room but nothing really praising his actual work.

Liger is another one of those cases where he's a legend, and is at a stage of his career where he's an attraction but also an enhancement talent. He also helps train the young lions and is heavily involved in the dojo, I'm sure they trust him to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants and that's why they are fine with having him on that contract in the first place. If he wants to go to NXT and wrestle jobber to the stars Tyler Breeze, sure, it's Liger. If he wants to go to PWG and pretend to stick his thumb up Ciampa's butt, sure, it's Liger.

Ibushi is also allowed to do whatever he wants, and that is mainly because he's not one of their boys. They forgave him pretty quickly for doing the Cruiserweight Classic instead of the G1. Neither guy really "had permission" though, because they don't require it, New Japan don't tend to lock guys down and that's what allowed Nakamura to jump ship instead of dropping the IC title to Omega. I don't think that move did much good for a potential relationship since loyalty and honour is a big deal in Japanese culture. For an example of this just look at Shibata and how he had to re-earn everyone's respect after he quit to do MMA. Look how long they kept Yoshi Tatsu around even though he was fucking terrible at everything.

The only way that sort of deal would work like that is if WWE approached NJPW as an equal, which seems improbable as it wouldn't really benefit WWE in any meaningful (ie. monetary) way.

Mr. Nerfect 06-16-2018 11:48 PM

I've definitely heard that he got good in Japan. CM Punk likes him too, which boosted his cred. Hell, I think it even bought into it. You're probably just talking to smarter people.

You're right on the Liger front. I got the feeling that Nakamura heading to WWE was something that New Japan was behind? I mean, they obviously would have liked to have kept Nakamura, but they knew he was leaving when he wrestled AJ Styles, right? I thought it was like a send-off. I wasn't aware of there being any heat there.

I think you're right about them needing to approach it as relative equals. I mean, obviously a New Japan match is not going to headline a WrestleMania, whereas Daniel Bryan, hypothetically, probably would headline Wrestle Kingdom. It would be a proportionate relationship. But I agree generally with what you're saying there. I do think that there is monetary value in terms of them maybe being able to keep talent that otherwise might want to branch out and can help "create stars" (as much as the WWE has stars in 2018). It allows for merchandising opportunities and it thumps those individuals who think that they don't need the WWE because they've got the New Japan/ROH relationship. More content. I mean, they gobble up content when they don't even have the intention of showing it. It would really put the pressure on ROH, which is fun for them, and they might even knock them down enough pegs that Sinclair considers selling it to them. Even more content.

It's a bit silly to argue in defense on this hypothetical arrangement, because the status quo is the status quo for a reason, and it's unlikely things change that much. But goddamn if it isn't a potentially interesting time. Because Bryan could do that. I sincerely think that talent can hold Vince up for a lot more freedom than ever before. Just like Vince managed to use the UFC and the interest from FOX in order to bounce up his TV deals, I can see WWE talent being able to use the ambitious nature of New Japan right now push up their deals. What's more appealing to Vince: Having Daniel Bryan as a WWE guy winning a belt in Japan while remaining under your umbrella, or having Bryan leave the WWE, go to New Japan and potentially create a storm with no monetary benefit? This stops the arms race (not that Vince is scared -- it's just pointless) and makes sure everybody except ROH has access to the weapons they want.

Plus, it would be something creatively for WWE as well. I wouldn't expect to see many New Japan storylines or whatever, but being able to throw Minoru Suzuki at a Seth Rollins or something means they can keep guys cycling and not getting too stale. Which doesn't seem to be an active concern of theirs -- unless it results in talent feeling unfulfilled and wanting to cycle themselves out. And you never know if something is going to click. Maybe Hiroshi Tanahashi works a gem in WWE and Randy Orton is the best thing ever in New Japan? I'm just randomly spit-balling there. Those could be monetary gains for WWE if Tanahashi becomes every school-age boy's favorite wrestler.

It would be more of a "fertilization" strategy, I guess. And it would increase the perception of the size of what Vince is trying to achieve. The WWE Network has original content, but it is in-house. Opening it up means that the WWE Network starts to become more of its own service. Vince has always wanted to start a football league and get WWE shined up so it's in the position that it could be bought by Disney -- but maybe he actually wants to be Disney?

Simple Fan 06-16-2018 11:52 PM

Luke Gallows did win me a TPWW Survivor season though, so he has that.

Mr. Nerfect 06-17-2018 12:00 AM

He seems like a charming and charismatic guy. There's something "Kevin Nash" about him. Unfortunately that follows him into the ring.

Evil Vito 06-17-2018 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED (Post 5133940)
SANADA was already a lock I think. From last year's entrants, I would say there are at least 16 locks to remain in:

Bad Luck Fale, EVIL, Hirooki Goto, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Juice Robinson, Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, Michael Elgin, Minoru Suzuki, SANADA, Tetsuya Naito, Togi Makabe, Tomohiro Ishii, Toru Yano, and Zack Sabre Jr.

Tama Tonga and YOSHI-HASHI are the 2 guys from last year that I'd say are on the bubble.

The only ones from last year definitely getting replaced are Satoshi Kojima (injured) and Yuji Nagata (retired from G1).

Jay White will be getting a spot as US Champion.

So that leaves one spot. Could be Taichi. But traditionally there is always at least one surprise entrant so who knows. KUSHIDA moving up? An AJPW guy? Rey goddamn Mysterio?


Last guy wound up being Hangman Page. I’m super cool with that.

Would’ve rather had Taichi in this thing than YOSHI-HASHI but that’s what being a trueborn NJPW guy gets you

Ultra Mantis 06-17-2018 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noid (Post 5135307)
You're right on the Liger front. I got the feeling that Nakamura heading to WWE was something that New Japan was behind? I mean, they obviously would have liked to have kept Nakamura, but they knew he was leaving when he wrestled AJ Styles, right? I thought it was like a send-off. I wasn't aware of there being any heat there.

The send off was for AJ, who had let them know in advance he wanted to go and work back home. It was all booked around the usurping of AJ by Kenny Omega because AJ couldn't get the job done and then Omega would challenge Nakamura and beat him for the IC belt to prove he can do what AJ could not.

Nakamura however, along with Gallows and Anderson, allegedly told New Japan he was leaving on the morning of Wrestle Kingdom which gave them a bit of a dilemma because both guys in the IC match are now leaving, so they can't just change the finish to fix it. Plus the big Bullet Club angle was attached on the following night's show, based on AJ failing here.

They went ahead as planned with the whole thing, even down to Kenny challenging Nakamura and Gallows & Anderson siding with Omega then bumbling around for a month because everyone knew they were leaving too, but the payoff match never happened because it would have taken place two weeks after his contract expired and he became property of the Performance Center. Instead they stripped Nakamura of the IC belt and had him work six man tags until he left. Okada cried, then Omega went over Tanahashi instead. I don't believe there was any heat on Nakamura for leaving, he had stuck with the company through the dark times, but WWE sniping him and ruining the payoff of that angle definitely didn't go over well.

mike adamle 06-17-2018 01:07 PM

Damn the G1 looks identical to last year. Page doesn't really add to my interest of it.

Fignuts 06-17-2018 03:00 PM

Yoshi hashi has "douchebag" face, something feirce. He would make a good nonchalant heel. Needs to do something different.

Vastardikai 06-17-2018 04:16 PM

Why did Elgin win NEVER?

Evil Vito 06-18-2018 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike adamle (Post 5135536)
Damn the G1 looks identical to last year. Page doesn't really add to my interest of it.

In fairness, the roster is loaded and there really weren't that many expendable guys to pull out from last year.

YOSHI-HASHI, as mentioned, is a trueborn which means the company's gonna give him a long leash. And in his defense, his match with Ibushi earlier this year was great. If he's motivated he can put out good work. I'd expect he's mostly there to eat pins anyway.

Fale is pretty meh, but having a big dude like that adds a dynamic nobody else in the tournament and produces underdog potential for his opponents.

Yano's a comedy guy but he's over as fuck and he's mostly there because wrestling him is kinda a day off from an otherwise grueling schedule.

Tama might be the most questionable returnee, come to think. He served a purpose last year with his story with Kenny (getting mad at Kenny wearing Elite garb), but without that his presence is kinda random and he's not done much this year. I'll guess he may beat Goto or White to set up a title match for a future show.

Makabe's also done nothing of note lately, and with Honma coming back you could argue he should just be working tag matches with him the whole tour to make the most of that return. But realistically Makabe was always gonna be in even though he's likely to finish mid-block. He's actually more recognizable to the Japanese mainstream than Tanahashi and Okada and was prominently featured on the poster. Plus with Kojima hurt, Nagata and Tenzan retired from G1, and Nakanishi probably not up for the grind of 9 singles matches in a month, Makabe's the closet guy left to a New Japan Dad they could've had in there.

RP 06-18-2018 12:07 AM

http://giant.gfycat.com/SaltySoreAmericanwirehair.gif

Evil Vito 06-18-2018 06:34 AM

A Block:
Bad Luck Fale
EVIL
Hangman Page
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Jay White
Kazuchika Okada
Minoru Suzuki
Michael Elgin
Togi Makabe
YOSHI-HASHI

Can never bet against Tanahashi/Okada for the A Block final match

B Block:
Hirooki Goto
Juice Robinson
Kenny Omega
Kota Ibushi
SANADA
Tama Tonga
Tetsuya Naito
Tomohiro Ishii
Toru Yano
Zack Sabre Jr

Golden Lovers in the B Block finals certainly

Innovator 06-18-2018 09:16 AM

Golden Lovers go to a draw so MY BOY ISHII GOES TO THE FINALS

Innovator 06-18-2018 11:18 AM

https://i.imgur.com/nrdd1j5.png

For the visual learners

Innovator 06-18-2018 11:19 AM

Fale loses 50 lbs and is gonna drop Okada even faster

Evil Vito 06-18-2018 12:39 PM

B Block I'm pretty sure I'm going to watch everything. Might even try to watch Omega/Ibushi live.

A Block is much more of a wait and see as there a few guys in there I don't really care about. Probably will still wind up seeing all of Suzuki, Tanahashi, and Okada's matches except for the ones against Elgin as I'll be skipping all 9 of his matches.

Jordan 06-18-2018 12:45 PM

Any chance Tanahashi wins this?

Simple Fan 06-18-2018 12:53 PM

Yeah Block B looks amazing. Block A could have some surprises with Hangman vs Suzuki and White vs Okada. Feel like Hangman will have a good showing but I think it'll be either Okada or Tanahashi out of that block. Not sure who out of B, safe bet would probably be Kenny but I could also see Niato or ZSJ as well.

Jordan 06-18-2018 01:29 PM

I feel it will be too soon to go with Kenny/Okada in the Dome again but that is likely the plan. If they don't go with that and Tanahashi is healthy I'd like to see them super push him to that match and put Omega over.

RaginRonic 06-18-2018 01:30 PM

https://i.imgur.com/J6IuD.jpg

Does this mean Vince compares wrestling fans to Bajorans?

=P

Ultra Mantis 06-18-2018 04:59 PM

Gotta be Little Kazu from A Block, and I would have said Ibushi from B Block but Kenny is also in B Block and Naito is there too so who knows what Gedo is planning now.

Evil Vito 06-18-2018 05:04 PM

Kenny saying "Tranquilo" during his victory speech most certainly not a throwaway. I'm thinking Naito goes over Kenny at some point in the tourney to set up a title match for Power Struggle or another show before the Dome.

Ultra Mantis 06-18-2018 05:08 PM

I read a translated interview with Ibushi about Kenny winning the title and he was also dropping Tranquilos and Assen na yos. They're up to something.

Mr. Nerfect 06-18-2018 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan X (Post 5136579)
Any chance Tanahashi wins this?

If the plan is to go with Omega taking the belt into Wrestle Kingdom, it would not surprise me. But I'm not sure that is the plan. I've got a feeling that the finals of this are Okada/Naito. I can see Naito taking the belt into Wrestle Kingdom somehow.

Evil Vito 06-19-2018 07:10 AM

Match fixtures announced. They've not exactly made it a mystery who is winning A Block. Okada/White headline night 1. Then Tana/White night 2. That tells me White may well go over Okada. But after night 2 (where Okada faces Fale), the rest of A Block is headlined by Okada. So that's 8 of 9 A Block nights he'll be headlining with the story likely being that he's regaining his form after being a bit mopey on the Kizuna shows. Tana will be kept strong enough in the standings to make the Tana/Okada night 9 match a win-and-in type deal, but yeah...Okada's going to the finals. Seems like a near lock.

B Block however is still wide open and way more interesting in terms of how it may shake out. They went the expected/correct route in saving the best for last with the Golden Lovers battle headlining night 9. But there are a billion ways they could go. It could be a win-and-in scenario with both guys with Naito, ZSJ, or someone else in a position to pass them in a draw. I'll stick with my initial prediction of Okada over Ibushi in the finals but it's a wide open Block

Innovator 06-19-2018 09:32 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgDbrtdUYAAE1ap.jpg:large

Mr. Nerfect 06-20-2018 07:24 AM

It would seem really weird if Okada was not in the finals. I can see Okada/Naito being the finals, with Naito winning and Okada doing something else at Wrestle Kingdom. *cough* Bryan Danielson.

Evil Vito 06-20-2018 09:33 AM

Okada being dropped by Jay White and Bad Luck Fale to start the tourney only to win his next 7 matches to get to the finals and win the whole thing has Gedo's fingerprints all over it.

Innovator 06-20-2018 10:01 AM

It's tradition, Fale has to beat Okada in the G1

Evil Vito 06-21-2018 08:43 AM

Here's your full G1 Special in San Francisco card

1. SHO/YOH/YOSHI-HASHI/Rocky Romero/Gedo [CHAOS] vs. Tama Tonga/Tanga Loa/Yujiro Takahashi/Chase Owens/KING HAKU [Bullet Club]

2. Toru Yano/Tomohiro Ishii [CHAOS] vs. Zack Sabre Jr./Minoru Suzuki [Suzuki-gun]

3. Hiroshi Tanahashi/KUSHIDA [Sekigun] vs. Hangman Page/Marty Scurll [Bullet Club]

4. NEVER Openweight Championship: Hirooki Goto [CHAOS] (V1 defense) vs. Jeff Cobb

5. IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championship: Matt Jackson/Nick Jackson [Bullet Club] (V1 defense) vs. EVIL/SANADA [Los Ingobernables de Japon]

6. Kazuchika Okada/Will Ospreay [CHAOS] vs. Tetsuya Naito/BUSHI [Los Ingobernables de Japon]

7. IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Championship: Hiromu Takahashi [Los Ingobernables de Japon] (V2 defense) vs. Dragon Lee

8. IWGP US Heavyweight Championship: Jay White [CHAOS] (V4 defense) vs. Juice Robinson [Sekigun]

9. IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kenny Omega [Bullet Club] (V1 defense) vs. Cody [Bullet Club]

Jordan 06-21-2018 08:53 AM

They could’ve done a much stronger card.

Evil Vito 06-21-2018 09:09 AM

I dunno, I think that looks pretty great. Especially the singles matches.

Love me some Jeff Cobb, hope they do more with him (fuck Elgin).
Hiromu/Dragon Lee looks like it'll be a show stealer.
Juice has been putting in good work.
And Cody's a logical V1 defense for Kenny.

Innovator 06-21-2018 09:16 AM

Yeah Jordan I don't think you get how insane in the membrane Hiromu and Dragon Lee will be

Simple Fan 06-21-2018 09:17 AM

Love Juice's post match interviews. Really hope he beats Switchblade for the US Championship.

Evil Vito 06-21-2018 10:44 AM

Also, motherfucking HAKU!!!!!!!!!!!

Innovator 06-21-2018 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simple Fan (Post 5138379)
Love Juice's post match interviews. Really hope he beats Switchblade for the US Championship.

"Down some sapporos and go balls deep in some pretty japanese girls"

Innovator 06-21-2018 02:12 PM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ETmm-RCYLwg?start=57" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Fignuts 06-21-2018 02:28 PM

Wait Elgin dropped the title back to goto already? Is no finally shitcanning him?

Emperor Smeat 06-21-2018 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simple Fan (Post 5138379)
Love Juice's post match interviews. Really hope he beats Switchblade for the US Championship.

Kevin Owens feels the same .. well in regards to promos at least.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Juice Robinson, best promo in wrestling.</p>&mdash; Kevin Owens (@FightOwensFight) <a href="https://twitter.com/FightOwensFight/status/1009443067580092417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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