I don't know why you guys feel like everyone deserves to be on WM, it's the superbowl, only the champs get in.

Mr X reading my mind there. Styles/HBK would have been incredible 5-8 years ago. But I really don't think hbk has enough left in the tank to work at the level those 2 should work at. It would still be a good match....but it wouldn't be the fantasy we all have imagined. That ship has unfortunately sailed.

The only way I see HBK ever being in the ring again is 1v1 vs hunter for his retirement match.

They should bring back starcade as the December ppv and use that one to trot out all the big names and legends for gimmick matches every year. Would be a good end cap to the season.

I would rather they kept things tighter -- I would absolutely prefer the WWE to have WrestleMania be a show where stars are made, but they have made it that show that everybody is part of.

I'm not the biggest fan of Battle Royals, but given what they are doing with Braun Strowman and that they do have the idea of pushing Baron Corbin, Sheamus & Cesaro are doing their thing and they have two sets of Tag Champs, Big Show and Mark Henry still haven't formerly retired, and they have such a bloated roster of jobbers -- I don't mind the Andre Battle Royal coming back for its fourth year.

They throw shit at the wall with the Intercontinental Title match. I'd love it if there were a proper feud build-up for the belt, but it seems fitting to have Bryan put Miz into that Ladder Match scenario. Come WrestleMania 33, I'd be very happy if both concepts were scrapped though.

Are we entirely sure that we're getting Brock vs. Berg at WrestleMania? I could see the WWE doing something where Brock is eliminated from the Royal Rumble and the following week trashes ringside (like when he killed Michael Cole), only for his WrestleMania opponent to confront him. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Brock Lesnar vs. Shane McMahon was still on the cards.

Is there any other opponent for Goldberg at Mania? I'd actually like to see him squash The Miz, since Miz is about the only guy trying to be a heel and won't exactly be destroyed by it because he is a mid-card worm. I think they'll go the IC Title Ladder Match, but Goldberg winning the IC Title wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

What about Goldberg/Strowman? Not a big fan of Strowman, but people seem to think he is being booked well. Is there anything in a clash between those two at the big stage?

Here is a revised "Fuck it, they'll probably actually do Triple H vs. Rollins and Cena vs. Undertaker card":

WWE World Championship
AJ Styles (c) vs. Goldberg

-I'm also working under the assumption that Vince McMahon decides to keep Goldberg and Lesnar separate in order to have two special attractions that are larger than his roster. I can see Brock getting eliminated by Goldberg (he's still the only guy that can beat him) and then having a temper tantrum the next night on RAW when he finds out that Goldberg is using the Rumble shot to jump over to SmackDown to work for the bosses he actually likes. Styles plays the chicken-shit well and the presumption is that Goldberg is going to Styles his own personal James Ellsworth.

Yes, This Happens
Brock Lesnar vs. Shane McMahon

-Shane is treated like a star by the WWE. He is good at getting his ass kicked and Brock is good at kicking ass. This is rehab for the Goldberg losses. You couldn't exactly have Brock beat Goldberg and then pretend to be challenged by Shane. The Goldberg frustrations lend Brock/Shane more parity.

The Franchise vs. The Phenom
John Cena vs. The Undertaker

-I'm not stoked about this, but I can see Vince being stubborn about it.

Ugh
Triple H vs. Seth Rollins

-This happens and Seth is booked down to Triple H's level. The crowd will at least pop for Triple H getting beaten by his own move, but it's possible that Triple H gets out of that and there is some murky ending with Shawn Michaels or The Rock getting involved and helping Rollins win with something else. Maybe that superkick to a kneeling opponent comes back?

Not Entirely Sure This Happens, but Let's Prepare for the Worst Match
Big Show vs. Shaq

-Hopefully Shaq has secretly been training for years and this is better than expectations would allow.

Universal Title
Kevin Owens (c) vs. Finn Balor

-This gets planted firmly in the mid-card, although Michael Cole drills in that this is a World Title match representative of the New Era. Owens thinks he is getting a night off as all his enemies end up with opponents and Finn Balor returns as The Demon King to claim the prize he never lost. Owens is terrified because Balor is the guy who beat him for the NXT Championship.

SmackDown Tag Team Championship
The Wyatt Family (c) vs. American Alpha

-I can still see this match happening, and this being the final moment where Orton turns on Wyatt & Harper. I imagine that Orton & Harper will be the team that end up losing the belts, so Wyatt doesn't need to take another dive at WrestleMania here, although he will probably end up eating an RKO.

RAW Women's Championship
Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley vs. Spider Lady (Sasha Banks under a mask)

-Charlotte continues on as Women's Champion (maybe trading it with Bayley a few times) before Ric Flair introduces us to wrestling legend "The Spider Lady." Bayley still has bad blood with Charlotte. It's obvious to the fans who Spider Lady is and Charlotte complains, but Mick Foley grants Spider Lady a WrestleMania title shot against Charlotte just like Bayley -- and the two faces vow that Charlotte isn't walking out champion. Dana Brooke is counteracted by Nia Jax who shows up and is suddenly a babyface because she's The Rock's cousin and isn't like most girls.

SmackDown Women's Championship
Special Guest Referee: Alexa Bliss
Becky Lynch (c) vs. Nikki Bella

-Becky wins back the Women's Title from Bliss, who just got a run because she is hot and they want to earmark her as a future star. Nikki Bella gets her comeback story and Lynch and Bella are all friends, but then Alexa Bliss, wearing a skimpy referee's uniform because Women's Revolution comes out and says that the fate of the SmackDown Women's Revolution will be in her hands. Nikki and Becky both act like they want her to call it down the middle for the sake of the title, but Bliss starts stirring shit implying that they have both come to her and begged for favors.

United States Championship
Chris Jericho (c) vs. Roman Reigns

-I seriously think this could happen. Jericho is one of the best wrestlers in the company and Reigns is going to get a big singles match so why not give it the best chance it can have of being entertaining. Jericho helps Owens retain the RAW Title at the Rumble and Owens pays Jericho back by helping him win the US Title. Jericho works really hard to make this a fun affair.

RAW Tag Team Championship
Sheamus & Cesaro vs. The New Day vs. Gallows & Anderson vs. Enzo & Cass

-It's the yearly tradition of four teams fighting it out in a clusterfuck. They don't usually swap the belts in these things, so Cesaro & Sheamus probably retain.

David vs. Goliath
Sami Zayn vs. Braun Strowman

-If they drag this out for this long, kudos to them, frankly. It'll probably actually be a hot little affair. Strowman wins because he's big.

Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship
The Miz (c) vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Baron Corbin vs. Kane vs. Kalisto vs. Apollo Crews

-The match that ended Daniel Bryan's career and the ultimate test to prove that The Miz is a true fighting Intercontinental Champion. The Miz makes Daniel Bryan vow that if he wins, this all ends and Daniel Bryan admits that The Miz is a wonderful Intercontinental Champion and has to kiss his ring or something.

Cruiserweight Championship
Neville (c) vs. Kota Ibushi

-Neville wins the CW Title from Swann because Vince gets bored of him and tears through all the babyfaces, necessitating the living legend coming with enough money offered to get him to agree to something resembling enough of a contract for Vince to allow this.

The only person left off this card is Rusev. You can always throw him into the Ladder Match and say his RAW contract expired, stick him in The Rock segment where he gets beaten up or have a Battle Royal on the Kickoff show (probably still dedicated to Andre) where he wins by beating up a lot of cruiserweights, jobbers, etc.

* Styles vs. Goldberg for the World Title
* Cena vs. Taker
* Brock vs. Shane
* Triple H vs. Rollins
* Big Show vs. Shaq
* The Wyatt Family vs. Alpha for the SmackDown Tag Titles
* Charlotte vs. Bayley vs. Sasha for the Women's Title
* Becky vs. Nikki with Alexa Bliss there for the SmackDown Women's Title
* Jericho vs. Reigns for the US Title
* Cesaro & Sheamus vs. New Day vs. Enzo & Cass vs. Gallows & Anderson for the RAW Tag Titles
* Zayn vs. Braun
* Miz vs. Ambrose vs. Dolph vs. Corbin vs. Kane vs. Kalisto vs. Crews in a Ladder Match for the IC Title
* Neville vs. Ibushi for the CW Title

Maybe on the pre-show:

* Rusev maybe wins a Battle Royal
* All the other ladies fight for future title shot at their brand's belt

That's a 13 match main card if it all stays on there, but the WWE won't care because they think more is better.

I've always been a fan of battle royals anyway, but I've loved the concept of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal. They used to always do a special DVD bonus battle royal or lumberjack match anyway to get everyone on the show anyway...and I like that they did that.

Not everybody should be in a title match or have a prominent place on the show, but I DO think everybody deserves a chance to wrestle in front of the largest crowd of the year at the biggest event in the industry. The jobbers work their asses off all year with the grind of the travel schedule, too.

Formally having the Andre battle royal just ensures everybody will have a place. And even though the match is mostly midcard or lower talent, you could theoretically use it as a springboard to elevate somebody. That's what they seemed to be trying to do with Cesaro and Baron Corbin, even if their post-Mania booking didn't reflect that.

There was a rumor for a while about a potential Fatal Fourway which would have been Sting vs Taker vs Goldberg vs Lesnar.

Taker threatening Team Smackdown Men and the way Goldberg-Lesnar II happened pretty much got rid of that idea in favor of the current Goldberg and Taker rumors.

Hoping they keep on doig what they are doing with Strowman although I am not looking forward to him doing a clean job to Reigns at Wm. Sooner see Sammy somehow have a hand in it.

The definition of the titles are already convoluted enough with the mid-card titles and the "world" titles being treated as interchangeable and exchanged by midcarders over the years. Putting the IC Title on the most over/credible main eventer you've got would just make things worse. Especially when you've got TWO world titles on relative midcard guys that he should be able to squash in 2 seconds. It doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I think I can get behind that point.

Thinking more about it, I'd probably turn Big Show/Shaq into the Andre Battle Royal, with the RAW Tag Team Title match happening on the pre-show, then all eight of those guys padding out the Battle Royal too (giving them a main card spot). This allows for Rusev to have a spot, although he can still do whatever else you have lined up for him anyway (Lana getting slut-shamed, Rusev being humiliated for standing up for her, etc.). They'll probably fly in the WWE UK Champion for a title defense on the pre-show against someone too. Maybe some sort of multi-woman match and cruiserweight clusterfuck too to promote the other shows the WWE has, before the main card kicks off with, hopefully, Neville vs. Ibushi.

I don't really think that match will happen, but it's within the realm of possibility. Neville looks to be going after the belt, has got a lot of energy behind him since he woke up the crowd, and Ibushi is on the WWE's radar. He doesn't want to sign full-time, but maybe they will be inspired to make a better offer (which might, in turn, lead to them treating him as a higher priority and a special deal) or allow him a similar deal to the UK guys they are signing -- where he'd just need to get his dates approved and he can collect WWE money. It's probably the only match I care about in the 205 Live realm, so I hope they do at least consider it and allow the guys to try and go out there and set the pace.

I was just thinking about the Brock Lesnar opponent at WrestleMania. A lot of people assume that it is going to be Goldberg, but the end game there is pretty short. Either Brock wins and Goldberg is done, or Goldberg keeps shocking the world and this time Brock has no excuses.

If both guys are going to stay on as special attractions, and given that they are two of the only guys in the company that can generate something resembling excitement, it wouldn't really make sense to put them against each other at Mania. Brock is heading into the Royal Rumble to hunt Goldberg, but it is also a wonderful opportunity for someone else to blitz Brock, eliminate him, get between him and his goals and earn the ire of both Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman.

There are very few guys on the WWE roster with the ability to mix it up with Brock believably. This is why Brock's matches have been on "Suplex Simmer" mode. They have been waiting for someone hot and believable enough to come along and be able to have that "Brock match" we all love. This is why Shane McMahon was also on the cards -- because like it or not, he's one of the few babyfaces on the roster that people actually believe in a little bit because of his last name. In fact, Brock vs. Shane is still not entirely out of the realms of possibility. All that would need to happen is that everybody in the Rumble works together to muscle out Brock, to which his response is to enter the ring and F5 everybody and make a scene only for Shane to come and try to stop him. Don't think the WWE wouldn't do it.

Brock is good at killing things and Shane is good at being killed. It is actually a very good match-up, and with Brock losing to Goldberg, he's got more vulnerability than ever before, but in a way that could present him as more dangerous. The only problem with a Brock vs. Shane match is that Brock's contract is coming up, isn't it? If Brock is going to re-sign, then he needs meat; but if he is going away then it would be beneficial for the WWE to use Brock to make someone. He proved how easily he can do it with Goldberg.

But who does Brock make? And who does he destroy if he is staying around? Is this where they blow their load with Braun Strowman? They probably know that secretly he is not really going to be a star and that this build-up has been fun but they need to discharge eventually. If Brock re-signs, he kills Braun, but if he decides to leave then they put Braun over as the new monster? If they know that Brock is leaving, do they call up Samoa Joe for that role? He's one of the few guys with the intensity to match Brock. He won't look that menacing next to Brock, but Heyman could sell it. It could be Reigns vs. Brock but better. Fuck, do they go with Reigns vs. Brock again and hope for the best?

I'm kind of curious to see what the Brock match at WrestleMania ends up being. If he chooses to leave it to the zero hour to re-sign, I can imagine things getting quite messy. But if they know they have Brock, even if it is just for one more year, then maybe the Brock vs. Shane match is actually the best way to go?

A different idea for getting to Cena vs. Styles for the WWE Title at Mania:

* John Cena gets the Royal Rumble title shot.

* Cena beats AJ Styles after a hard fought match and, weirdly enough, a tiny little bit of cheating when the referee isn't looking. John Cena has become the "16-time World Champion."

* AJ Styles is incensed and has snapped (and maybe even become a submission machine). He tosses things around backstage and says he is entering the Royal Rumble tonight. He bumps into someone like James Ellsworth or even Jinder Mahal and beats the piss out of them, opening up a spot.

* AJ Styles enters the Rumble. You can either go with him being the marathon man or him being a late entry that's pissed off. Either way, Angry Styles wins the 2017 Royal Rumble after losing the WWE Title earlier that night and having yet another classic with John Cena. He'll be getting the title shot at WrestleMania and "there's something different about AJ Styles."

* On SmackDown, Cena comes out to "Also Sprach Zarathustra" in a suit, styling and profiling. He basically acts like a bit of an ass. Not really a heel turn, mind you, but sort of like how Cena was willing to go a bit darker for The Rock. He acts a bit more entitled instead of being the humble "I'm proud of this achievement and for the people who supported me and the men and women who fight for this country" Cena. He's a bit more in love with himself, not unlike the film roles he has been hitting out of the park. He's the man and he knows it, and now that he has that record he's showing a bit more ego.

Basically, Styles goes a bit more serious and Cena is the one who plays bad, even though he still hasn't done anything too dastardly. I dunno, I think it would be more interesting. And someone beating Cena for his 16th championship seems like a bigger deal than Cena actually winning it at this point. I'd rather see Styles go over at WrestleMania too, so if we already have the belt on Cena we can tell the story of Styles going over him and we've done the 16th title win for Cena.

Possible development, but also a bit stupid (but would fit in with current WWE): John Cena stubs his toe the week of WrestleMania and suggests that he has to forfeit his 16th title. But then he gets good medical news that it was not as bad as he thought, and recovery time was a minute, so he will be good to challenge for his 17th WWE Championship at WrestleMania when he wins the vacant belt.

He could just win both the World and Universal title on the same night giving him his 16th and 17th win at mania.

According to the Observer, Brock-Shane was the plan for Mania before Goldberg got brought back.

The idea was originally Vince's and had a lot of push back from upper management who hated the idea. Also seems like a portion of management still hasn't warmed up to Shane being back in prominent role in the company.

Ben part of a larger theme this year of management starting to push back more against Vince and his plans.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...ck_lesnars_wm/

I guess Brock vs Goldberg is less shitty than Brock vs Shane. So thank you Goldberg.

According to the Observer, WWE is backing away on having Reigns main event another Mania nor treat it like another "coronation" of his mega star status. If he gets a "coronation" moment, its likely happening at the Rumble instead.

Also Reigns-Strowman got downgraded from being very likely to just a possible option since the WWE is now considering more ideas. One idea involves a huge surprise but the Observer doesn't think the WWE would actually do it.

lol...that last paragraph is the very reason internet wrestling journalism needs to be taken with a handful of salt

Roman could face an entire army and still come out on top!

To play devil's advocate, you can pretty much decipher what that means though. Someone has said "Reigns vs. Rock" or "Reigns vs. Batista" in a meeting but they can't get it done and Reigns isn't going to be winning the Rumble to face Owens. It's not that ludicrous.

Meltzer has reported the following now


If Roman Reigns beats the Undertaker in his final match...that might actually be the thing that finally drives many older fans off.

Yeah, that'll be the nail in the coffin for me.

Actually just doing Reigns/Taker at all might do it. Sounds shit.

He would have to be insane to do Roman/Undertaker. If the reaction to Roman beating HHH at WM32 was bad, Roman ending the Undertaker's career would be an absolute disaster.

Vince strikes me as tone deaf enough to do it.

How the fuck could they not do Taker/Cena while they still have a chance?

ESPECIALLY since you know Reigns/Cena will happen at a WrestleMania before long.

I could see Roman/Cena headlining SummerSlam for some reason.

You can do Reigns/Cena at SummerSlam. Just have Cena go over Taker so he can transition that to Reigns.

lol if Reigns goes over Taker and Cena in the same year. Nope that doesn't seem forced at all!

Wow. Part of me actually wants to see that happen just for the fan reaction. It wouldn't be like when Brock beat Taker, the shock of him losing is gone. Only way it would build toward the future was if Roman turns heel and stays one.

Actually I could see Roman beating Taker at WM, then Roman beating Cena at SummerSlam and then Roman beating Brock at WM34, especially if it is Minneapolis and is Lesnar's last bout.

Reigns vs Strowman is probably their best option for a WM program for Reigns if they want to build towards the future. Throw them in there and see who the fans gravitate to.

I really think they should make 2017 a bad year for Reigns. Start with him losing at the RR, then losing his US title at the next Raw PPV, and then losing to Braun at Mania. Followed by a year of failures and short comings. They got to break him down and build some sympathy for the guy so fans can get behind him. Right now as fans see him he's the appointed successor to John Cena and fans just aren't buying it.

Strowman should go over Reigns.

Reigns/Taker is probably going to kill off whatever mega star potential the WWE wants him to have than be a "Once in a Lifetime" type moment like Rock/Hogan and Rock/Cena I & II were.

Reigns isn't ready at all for a match of that magnitude and they are better off doing Cena/Taker at Mania 33 and then Reigns/Cena at Mania 34 to create the real "passing of the torch" moment for Reigns.

How come in our 'booking fantasies' we are putting reigns over people and passing the torch to him?

Because we're trying to be realistic.

Reigns is going to be the top star in the company for the next decade. It is unavoidable. Short of Vince dying and Triple H taking over and completely changing everything, Reigns is going to be the top guy for a long time whether the fans respond to it or not.

You have to fight, You have to have hope, revolutions are built on hope.

Ugh, really don't want to see Undertaker/Cena. I think it will happen, but I really don't want to see it. What's the finish? Who benefits?

Cena vs Taker sounds better than anything i've heard them pitch so far. So logically you cant do it.

Now that he is aligned with The Wyatt Family, Randy Orton facing The Undertaker could actually help out a few guys. As a result, that won't happen.

I'm now for Strowman being put in the Battle Royal (I'd make that the Big Show/Shaq match too) with Zayn facing Nakamura. It'd be the rough one year anniversary of their Match of the Year candidate on the big show. It doesn't really need much more hype than "Nakamura is coming."

Any word on when Shelton Benjamin is going to be medically cleared? I know there are some that are probably "Whatever" about his return, but I'm quite happy for the guy. If he is good to go in time, I'd be all for him entering the IC Title Ladder Match and actually winning a Ladder Match at WrestleMania. It'd be a fun moment for the guy, and wouldn't nearly be as big a "WTF" moment as Zack Ryder winning.

Cena vs Taker could be the last true "big fight feel" match ever at the rate they're going. They gotta do it.

Unless they can surgically replace every bone and organ in Hulk Hogan's body and let him have a go facing all the other legends from an era where they could get guys over.

Without the streak I don't think it's anymore than the sum of its parts, frankly. When the streak was still there, it had this "Oh god, Cena could do it" feel. Now, without it, Cena beating The Undertaker would just "Of course he did" and Taker beating Cena would actually kind of suck. Part of Cena's charm is that he's been "the guy" for so long. If it turns out that he's just second to a dude who has been around even longer than him, it's just kind of...deflating.

Fuck, at this point I'd rather Cena and Taker team up to face The Wyatt Family for the Tag Team Titles. There's at least some drama there. Plus, I think that Cena vs. Taker, from an in-ring perspective, may not click as well as everyone expects two men of their stature to click at. I don't think it will suck, but I think there will be lulls where people realize "Oh fuck, this is a bit underwhelming, isn't it?" Let it just swim in people's imaginations OR just have them fight at a different PPV. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but I think Taker vs. Cena at Survivor Series, the birthplace of The Undertaker, in Houston, Survivor Series XXX would be a lot better for both men. Cena can properly heel it up, and it doesn't carry that "taking spots" vibe because it's fucking Survivor Series and it needs it.

I agree. Cena had grown on me. I'm starting to realize he puts on amazing matches. Maybe thats a bad thing. Maybe that means the rest of the talent suck. I dont know.

I think they have to do Cena and Taker now. Who cares if it leads nowhere? That's not the point. It's a special attraction match. And like fan said, prob the biggest match they can put on.

Its been, what, 13 years since they've actually faced each other? That's a long fucking time. Get it done.

Cena has gotten a lot better before our eyes, very subtly. He's now a legitimately great professional wrestler, as opposed to a guy with certain qualities and a lot of potential to live up to. His push is also less sickening (remember when Cena held the WWE Title for over a year?). It's been over two years since the guy has been WWE Champion, and he lost it in what was a smooshing. That Brock match helped Cena a lot, because it took out a lot of the pent-up frustration fans had with Cena being perceived as invincible. It was a cathartic moment that gave people that nut-off and move past how produced Cena was, and see how truly talented he is. The US Title reigns also helped tremendously too. It took him out of the main event picture and used his unflappable status to put the spotlight on some other guys by at least having great matches with them. It worked so well that they thought they'd try it with Reigns, but they've missed the part where he's not dominating the main event picture at the same time.

That is exactly the problem with a lot of the things the WWE does these days lol.

That being said, I predict the match will happen. I'm thinking Cena wins the belt at the Royal Rumble and then Taker wins the Rumble itself to set it up. Be careful what you wish for.

As for what Styles does? I think it'll either be a match with Shane McMahon, provided they go with Goldberg vs. Brock III, or Shane will face Brock, Goldberg challenges for the RAW Title and AJ Styles actually gets Nakamura. It'd be pretty easy to set up -- Styles bitches to Daniel Bryan about being The Greatest Wrestler in the World Today and he wants to be in the main event of Mania, and Bryan says "Well, there is another man that many consider to be The Greatest Wrestler in the World Today" and Nakamura comes out and Styles looks like he has seen a ghost.

Either that or they'll just stick Styles in the IC Title Ladder Match because, fuck it, it's WrestleMania and AJ Styles isn't really a star, right? Remember that year they just jammed Daniel Bryan in there? Haha.

Only thing i hate about Taker winning the Rumble is that he did the same thing in 2007.

I cant buy your Nakamura angle, but i can see it getting put together.

I really love the way Ambrose and Styles work. I wouldnt be opposed to seeing something built towards a match with them. How about a cage match? When's the last time we've seen that at WM?

I assume you mean straight, traditional cage matches, because we got a Hell in a Cell this year.

I could see Styles vs. Ambrose or Styles vs. Ziggler. It wouldn't have that much...oomph, but I could see it as a "Well, we need to do something" kind of match. Like how Orton and Kane got thrown together for WrestleMania 28. You know, the "Randy Orton match" most years.

The Wyatt Family vs. The New Day isn't something I'm too keen for, but I can see it happening. There could be some interaction at the Royal Rumble that leads to The New Day costing The Family the belts against a team. In my recently jumbling of names, I actually had it as Ambrose & Ziggler in my mind. They're in similar spots on the roster -- kind of floundering and could use a branch to grab onto. A Tag Team Title run might freshen them up a bit. They're different enough as personalities that I can see them having good chemistry. Maybe they can go against American Alpha at WrestleMania, with Ambrose and Ziggler being the more heelish team, which would be a damn good match.

Styles Ambrose wouldnt be thrown together though. They could start right now. We just dont get many gimmick matches 1v1 anymore at WM and it would be refreshing ( WWE will steal this idea and ignore my application once again ).

I should have used the term "leftovers." We've seen them fighting since September.

No.

I mean, Styles Ambrose is established. They could carry a story to WM.

Styles and Ambrose have been feuding since just after SummerSlam and that ended only a few weeks ago. Having them feud again straight away and carrying it to Mania would be overkill.

Styles and Ambrose or Styles and Cena are their best options as far as Styles goes. A match with HBK wouldn't be bad but I just feel like the history he has with Cena that the money is in that match. If not Cena then Ambrose is the next best case.

I don't see the intrigue in Cena vs Taker. It would be a poorly thrown together program that would end up being lack luster. Of course that's really anything they do with the Undertaker though. Personally I think Taker, Kane, and Sting vs The Wyatt Family would be good.

I used to hate cena and thought he was extremely limited. His stint as us champion completely changed my opinion of him. He has put in some of the best matches I have ever seen in the last couple years. That's not all him but also who he was facing in his feuds but he stepped up to another level himself.

I've also noticed that I now sort of miss him when he's gone for long periods of time. He can carry good chunks of time and at least make them entertaining. Also feel like his only real drawback now is that he is shackled in the confines of his gimmick. He needs to be given that freedom to do something g different. I think he is more than capable and has a lot of acting talent hiding behind the surface. He could shine so much brighter if they would just let him evolve.

Cena has been showing a little more edginess in his character recently that I like.

Cena has been amazing the last couple of years. It actually pisses me off in a way because it's very possible he was always this good even during his Super Cena years but he was forced to be one dimensional.

I was dead set against a Taker/Orton retread but framed with Wyatt in the background - two victims of The Streak trying to avenge their losses - I might be able to buy in.

How about Taker and Kane vs Wyatt and Orton? Gets Kane on the card and simplifies that story.

I really don't want to see the Brothers of Destruction squashing the Wyatts again.

But it will do so much for The Wyatts just being in the ring with Taker, right? Right??

And while that's a valid argument, I don't think it applies to two part timers, one of which is at the end of his rope and the other who's transitioning into a seasonal attraction. Not every match or feud has to lead somewhere. Taker Cena is one of those matches.

I'm hopeful WrestleMania looks something like this

WWE Title Match- John Cena (C) vs Royal Rumble winner Goldberg

The Undertaker vs. AJ Styles... Really wanna see this match before Taker retires

Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle... If Kurt Angle can't come back I'd replace him with Finn Balor. If Finn Balor is still injured I'd replace him with Roman Reigns. Roman Reigns could just be scratched off the ladder match, make someone else champion coming in.

Triple H vs. Seth Rollins

WWE Raw Women's Title Match- Charlotte (C) vs. Asuka

WWE Universal Title Match- Kevin Owens (C) vs. Chris Jericho

Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (vs. Luke Harper?)

WWE United States Title Ladder Match- Roman Reigns (C) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Braun Strowman vs. Big E vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Rusev

WWE Intercontinental Title Match- The Miz (C) vs. Dean Ambrose

WWE SmackDown! Women's Title Match- Becky Lynch (C) vs. Sasha Banks (No idea how you get Sasha over there, so I'm just pipedreaming here.)

WWE SmackDown! Tag Team Title Match- American Alpha (C) vs. The Revival

I'm sure there'd be more matches but this would be what I would put on my main card.

Yeah, I agree with this.

Fair point, but then you are really selling the match itself. What happens when it is clunky and below expectations?

I am on board with Styles vs. Cena. I think Styles vs. HBK would be bigger, better and fresher, but I'm board with Styles vs. Cena. It is my favorite "realistic" match. I'm not big on Sting returning after he lost to Triple H at WrestleMania and given the shape of his neck, but that is probably the best idea I've heard for him. They'll probably put the babyfaces over and have Wyatt go 0-3 at WrestleMania, but I still not shed tears because it is a big step up for Harper and I don't really care about Orton losing. It could lead to the destruction of that incarnation of The Family too. It is all about how they sell the loss. If it's business as normal for The Wyatt Family afterwards, it is death.

Styles/Ambrose is the only thing I really don't like. Ambrose is flat as shit right now. The crowd basically turned on him during his program with Styles. To give him yet another shot against Styles would just be tedious. I've honestly got no clue where you insert Ambrose in any sort of meaningful role at Mania -- his stock has dropped so much even with a WWE Title reign.

A question about Owens/Jericho:

Who is the babyface in that feud? It feels very similar to the Rollins/Triple H stuff in that it would seem logical to turn the fresh young kid face, but thus far there are no endearing traits being displayed. Rollins didn't get confident and start proving himself in competition, earning the ire of "Daddy" who wasn't needed anymore. Owens is losing all his non-title matches and looking like a coward constantly.

Jericho's persona is honestly more interesting and he could very easily get pops by just rehearsing his shtick, but it is so obviously a heel gig. Whenever Jericho turns face all that stuff is dropped and he becomes Y2J Classic again. I mean, I love Jericho, but remember him from the AJ Styles feud? I was quite fine with him, but I completely got why so many people were underwhelmed and were like "Just go away, Jericho."

I honestly can't see how you get to Owens/Jericho when both have been such cowardly babies. I think Owens is better served as being a babyface, but unless Jericho costs him the Universal Title on purpose and really dials up the heat, I can't really see how people are supposed to feel too sorry for Owens, given that he is clearly using Jericho, and frankly dependent on him.

That being said, given that it doesn't really seem to make sense, I think it is a fair prediction for WrestleMania. :y:

Taker rattled off back to back matches with Lesnar that were great. Cena is on another level right now. These aren't guys who suck. Unless there's an early in match injury I can't see how these two don't come thru in a big match.

And not booking a match because it might be clunky or underwhelming is not a valid reason to avoid a match. Even the best in ring talents put on clunkers.

Cena has gotten a lot better, but he's not exactly the sort of guy who carries ring performances. Think about the lack of chemistry he had with Randy Orton. Yeah. I have no doubt the effort would be there, but I can see it being clunky and kind of boring.

Maybe they have the best match ever? I dunno, but it just doesn't mesh well in my mind.

Agree to disagree here. That is not an argument that ring work is the end-all, be-all if you've built to something that you want to blow-off, and I'm sick and tired of all the same matches being of a "good" standard, because I think it devalues "good," but I don't think a high-stakes "dream match" can afford to disappoint, especially given how much Cena's current goodwill seems to hedge on him now being able to consistently do good stuff.

He's been doing good stuff for a while, far before his U.S. title resurgence run. When he has a good opponent, he's just as money as anybody.

Undertaker is a good opponent. You make it sound like Taker is done and hasn't produced quality matches in recent history. He has. With Lesnar, who's reputation as an in ring performer has deteriorated in his second run. He and Taker tore the house down at Summer Slam and HIAC in 2015.

These are two of the biggest names in the last 10 years and the last real dream match left. I cannot fathom why anyone would be against it.

The body of work for each men speak enough, to me, to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially Cena's run as a legitimate top in ring performer.

The build is already there. The biggest star of his era looks to knock off the franchise player of the company and take his place as the new living legend.

Lol, Brock Lesnar is someone very special. Brock can shit out masterpieces and is really undervalued for how good he is. When he works with Taker he does magic because it's Taker so Brock wants to be magic. He just tosses around mid-carders because why break a sweat and bust your mystique?

Undertaker, *sigh*, I'm just going to say it -- the dude isn't as good in the ring as people say he is. When he's got a great opponent he is great, but he needs that great opponent. You say that Cena is that guy, but I think he works with other guys that are great. When you have two guys that work to the level of their opponent, you often get a fucking borefest. Has Taker really had a great match with anyone that isn't great? So we're left discussing the greatness of John Cena, and I'd like to know when he last carried someone. Cesaro, AJ Styles, Dean Ambrose, Cody Rhodes, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and whoever else Cena tore the house down with have never needed to be helped in that regard, lol. Cena could keep up with them, but he won't be "keeping up" with Taker.

Sometimes you don't do the dream match. Remember Vince vs. Bret? You don't just do it because it is there. Your story outline for it means that Cena has to win, surely? Otherwise you're going to have a part-time Cena that was never as good as the legend. And if Cena knocks him off as the living legend, then Taker has to go, surely? And if Taker is still good why do you want him to go? Think about the crowd reaction if Cena pins The Undertaker at WrestleMania. Cena has been building so much good will. Are you really ready to go back to Super Cena? And think about what happens if The Undertaker wins. It's a continuance of the status quo, which is exactly what is wrong with the WWE creatively.

There are plenty of reasons to not want to see this match, lol. I've never been a massive fan of either man, personally. That's one. I feel like the timing is wrong. That's two. I feel that neither gets anything out of it. That's three. There are the directional problems I pointed out, and even if you consider them minor, that's four. There are far more interesting things for each man to do. That's five. I feel it will be a "Cena is the best" wankfest that regresses his persona. That's six. I honestly think the match will suck. That's seven. I could probably keep going.

No idea why everyone wants to see a triple threat RAW Women's Championship match at WM 33...Charlotte and Sasha have had their feud, it was supposed to be done and over with at Roadblock: End of the Line, and I think Charlotte v. Bayley one-on-one would be amazing given the proper build and time on the show. Put Bayley over in a singles match at Mania and then after a title defense or 2 for Bayley at PPV's maybe have her put the title on the line v. Sasha @ SummerSlam. I think Bayley © v. Sasha @ SummerSlam is a good fit, especially considering their history and the classic they put on the night before SummerSlam 2015 @ NXT TakeOver: Brooklyn for the NXT Women's Championship.

...and King of Lurkers Tournament Finals...I won't show up...

You're in v. Dennis Stamp pending him being booked, but as of right now, according to Mr. Stamp, when reached for comment, had this to say:

That street fight with Droford should be the inaugural MLB open thread championship.

I don't think it's so much that people want to see a Triple Threat so much as people think we will see a Triple Threat. Sasha Banks, despite Vince apparently losing faith in her, is a "star" in the division. She will be at WrestleMania somewhere. She's on the RAW brand. It goes to fit that people would predict she'd end up involved in the RAW brand women's match somehow. Unless they are going to do three or more women's matches on the show (and I wouldn't put it past them with how they are trying to promote the girls as more important now), it goes to reason that Sasha Banks would have to fit into the RAW Women's Title match.

I personally have no interest in Charlotte vs. Bayley. I didn't really love Bayley that much in NXT (I thought she stole Becky's thunder), and although her climb was good, once you'd seen it that was pretty much all with her. If they're doing the title shot at the Rumble, you're going to have to work really hard to keep things interesting until April, considering they are already having televised non-title matches now.

Don't be silly Noid. Of course people want to see a PPV match that they readily give away on free TV over and over again.

Buncha ham-and-eggers.

Well, working two gimmicks at once might make you a bit more like Sensational Sherri and Peggy Sue. But hey - that's not all that bad!

I can't remember if I posted this in here or not, but a few weeks ago I had this realization that they might do AJ Styles vs. Kane at WrestleMania. It's exactly the tone-deaf thing the WWE loves to do. It would be a presented like a "high profile" match on the same card where his brother challenges the champion. I think the story would be that AJ Styles wants in there with Cena and Taker, but Shane says no, so Styles says he is going to keep demanding a title shot until he gets his way and then the pyros go off and Kane is out to defend his brother's right to challenge. They've been protecting Kane quite auspiciously for something at Mania.

It may not be a dream match, but AJ Styles should go over, which is...something.

I won't call it an official prediction. I still wonder what the plans with the WWE Title are. I can see Cena vs. Undertaker, but I can also see that away from the belt. I can also see Samoa Joe debuting in the Royal Rumble. They wouldn't possibly do Styles vs. The Undertaker and Cena vs. Joe at Mania, would they?

The most WWE thing to do would be for Cena to win the belt and Taker to win the Rumble and AJ Styles to catch a branch on the way down. That could be Kane, or it could be a match against Nakamura or even the IC Title Ladder Match. At this point a Styles vs. Rollins RAW vs. SmackDown -- former champions proving that they belong match is somewhat appealing if Triple H agrees to sit Mania out. HA! I know.

RAW hinted at GOLDBERG vs ROMAN REIGNS in my opinion

If Reigns ends up winning the Universal Title at the Royal Rumble (likely) then Owens would probably be upset and throw a hissy fit and want to be put in the Rumble Match, right? That's probably how they get to Jericho vs. Owens (Owens tosses out his buddy or something). I'd really prefer to see the tag though. You could even do them as champions against American Alpha or something. Hell, Finn Balor returning to face Kevin Owens wouldn't be insane, so maybe Balor could be Zayn's partner to face Owens & Jericho for the RAW Tag Titles?

WrestleMania really needs to go for two nights with everything as booked out as it is. You really shouldn't be doing multiple Women's Title or Tag Title matches on the same show anyway. A RAW WrestleMania and a SmackDown WrestleMania, or just a Night One/Night Two event would work a lot better and give things more room to breathe. One is headlined by Cena/Taker for the WWE Title and the other is headlined by Reigns/Goldberg for the Universal Title. Brock vs. Shane on the undercard of the WWE Title one, Triple H/Seth Rollins on the undercard of the Universal Title show. A Women's Title match on each one; a Tag Title match on each one. Do the Andre Battle Royal on another and the multi-man Ladder Match on the other.

These events are going to go too long and everything is going to feel like the same.

With Taker being in the Royal Rumble, I do think it could be Cena vs. Taker. But it seems he and Goldberg are your two contenders to win the whole thing. Sorry AJ, but at least you might have the best North American match in 2017 at that point in time against John Cena.

I'm not a big fan of Cena vs. Taker, but accepting that fate, do you think AJ Styles petitioning Shawn Michaels for a "dream match" would be a pretty welcome thing for WrestleMania? Since it's in San Antonio, maybe Styles goes to cheat against Cena, but HBK hits Sweet Chin Music and prevents Styles from using the title belt or something. Cena wins the title and Styles spends his nights calling out HBK and maybe even uses Bryan to get to Michaels.

If they went this route, I'd have Goldberg eliminated from the Royal Rumble...by Roman Reigns. Goldberg comes out on RAW and says he got screwed, but that was the dumbest mistake of Roman Reigns' young life. Goldberg asserts that Reigns cost him the Rumble because he doesn't want to face him at Mania. Reigns comes out and says "Your generation really is stupid, isn't it? I tossed your ass out of the Rumble because you're the guy I do want to face."

* Cena (c) vs. Taker for the WWE Title
* Reigns (c) vs. Goldberg for the Universal Title
* AJ Styles vs. Shawn Michaels
* Brock Lesnar vs. Shane McMahon
* Seth Rollins vs. Triple H
* Kevin Owens & Chris Jericho (c) vs. Sami Zayn & Finn Balor for the RAW Tag Titles
* The Wyatt Family vs. The New Day
* Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley for the RAW Women's Title with Ronda Rousey as referee
* Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal featuring Big Show, Shaq, Braun Strowman, Sheamus, Cesaro, etc.
* Nikki Bella (c) vs. every other woman on the roster in a sudden death match for the SmackDown Women's Title or a giant women's tag pitting all the babyfaces against all the heels
* The Miz (c) vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Baron Corbin vs. Kane vs. Kalisto vs. Apollo Crews in a Ladder Match for the IC Title
* The Revival (c) vs. American Alpha for the SmackDown Tag Titles (Hulk Hogan appearance to raise the arms of Alpha)
* Neville (c) vs. Kota Ibushi for the CW Title

That's a pretty fucking hefty Mania.

I'd also be fine with Sheamus & Cesaro being Owens & Jericho's opponents and Sami Zayn facing Nakamura with Finn Balor's return being held off. But I guess he could also find himself facing AJ Styles if they don't do the HBK stuff. But it's all starting to click a bit more into place. Or they do Styles vs. Balor, have Nakamura team with Zayn and still have Cesaro & Sheamus in the Battle Royal. I can see their team dissolving -- or loving to fight with each other so they can eventually fight against each other at WrestleMania. They're kind of tailor-made for the Battle Royal. Big Show vs. Shaq hasn't really got much there. It wouldn't surprise me if they did it one-on-one, but why not just have Show go after the Battle Royal and have Shaq stare him down and say he's getting the trophy and they can beat up Tony Nese and Drew Gulak to remind people of how big they are or something?

I couldn't call this a "prediction," per se, but it is very easy to imagine Shane McMahon announcing that at WrestleMania, SmackDown will give the women of WWE a try chance to shine in an exhibition like nothing else in the WWE. It will be the first-ever "Femme Royal" for the SmackDown Women's Championship. The rules are that all competitors will start in the ring, but then be eliminated when they are tossed from the ring, until two girls are left to compete in a match to be won by either pinfall or submission, and he is opening the floor to the women of RAW as well.

The match ends up being Alexa Bliss vs. Becky Lynch vs. Carmella vs. La Luchadora vs. Mickie James vs. Naomi vs. Natalya vs. Alicia Fox vs. Emmalina vs. Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks with Lita being announced as the final legend returning to the ring for the title opportunity. Maybe it comes down to Mickie and Nikki at the end, or Mickie and Sasha, or Becky and Sasha, or even Becky and Lita. It'd be a bit more intriguing than a lot of the other match possibilities. This would also be a cool place to debut Asuka, but you can also hold off on that.

Love that idea

Another idea is to do Bayley vs. Charlotte vs. Sasha for the RAW Title; Alexa vs. Nikki in a short match for the SD Title; and Becky vs. "obsessed fan" Mickie in a more personal bout. Three women's matches might seem excessive, but they've kind of forced themselves into a corner with the whole "Women's Revolution" thing. One match would be token; you now have two championships, so ignoring one looks bad; but if you just do one for each belt, are you falling into the same trap as having just one match?

They'll probably just do two, but I guess the formula should really be n (Number of championships) +1.

The Meltz reported today on Observer Radio that plans for Mania are up in the air after discussions within the last 48 hours or so...

Hmmmm....

Last night really made me think they were teasing Goldberg vs Roman Reigns so maybe all plans are up in the air.

In other words the intern that Dave gets info from hasn't been included in the plans for Mania, so he's reporting plans are up in the air. Meanwhile, plans have been set for months.

I would expect a minimum of two women's matches on the main show (ie not the kickoff). My guess if they end up with at least three when all is said and done. I could see a third SDL vs Raw match just to get more girls on the show.

My guess right now is Charlotte vs Bayley one on one for RAW and Nikki vs Alexa from SDL. Bayley should probably win here (after losing at the Rumble due to cheating). I envision a Banks heel turn post Mania to set up Banks and Bayley through to SummerSlam. I would like to see Nikki get a spotlight win after all she's fine for the women's division. I feel like she hasn't gotten the respect she deserves.

Then you have Lynch and some SDL girls vs Banks and some RAW girls to get more girls on the show. Not being in the spotlight women's matches could help fuel the fire for Banks turning heel.

Really hoping for AJ Styles vs. Shawn Michaels now. I'll be completely okay with Cena vs. Undertaker and Reigns vs. Goldberg if Styles/HBK is the third match from the top.

As for the women, I am wondering if Emmalina fits in anywhere? I'd be happy for her push to be held off until after stories are finished at Mania. I'm thinking Bayley could beat Charlotte with Sasha's help at the Rumble (so Sasha can re-contend), but that obviously doesn't sit well with either girl. Sasha tells Bayley she should be thanking her, because she couldn't beat Charlotte on her own, and Bayley tells Sasha she deserves to be here 800 times. In their rematch at Fastlane, Charlotte wins the belt back when Sasha throws in the towel for Bayley (still her "friend" at the time) and Charlotte becomes an 11-time champion or whatever she's at. WrestleMania is all the personal issues boiling to the surface.

Alexa Bliss is the SmackDown heel and defends it against Nikki. Simple.

Becky Lynch vs. Mickie James with James being an obsessed Becky fan. I'd actually be interested in seeing these girls open WrestleMania -- a spot that Vince sees as quite prestigious. The finish can see Mickie grabbing Lynch by the hair, licking as if going for her Trish-grab spot at Mania 22, but Becky counters into the Dis-Arm-Her and gets the submission win. Nikki can enter as Becky is making her way to the back and the two can trade looks as if to say "You will see us wrestle each other 90 times soon." So the two matches are kind of part of the same segment. And Nikki basically squashes the overconfident Bliss, who gets Speared and is done. She tries to blame the loss on La Luchadora but gets taken out by her too.

Emmalina will probably debut after Mania.