Ha. Interesting.

You know what I fucking hate? When wrestlers are presented as being siblings but then they have different names? Alicia Fox/Caylee Turner; Dolph Ziggler/Briley Pierce. What the fuck is with that?

They never made it as wrestlers, though. Tough Enough and announcer for NXT is the best they ever got except for one match. THey never made it a big thing that they are related either except for the reality of Tough Enough where she was under her their real name last name Crawford.

Yeah, true, but I hate that they bring them in at all with these false names, even if their story is that they are the brother/sister of someone. Michael McGillicutty annoyed me too.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160711013137

This guy is in NXT. I'm expecting big things.

What's his name, is that Tino Sabatli guy? Know I didn't spell that right at all. Kind of looks like a ripped Cesaro.

You know what is really weird.......

How Charlotte officially doesn't even have a last name, but is heavily promoted as Ric Flair's daughter, and comes out in robes with "Flair" written on them......

Yeah, that is weird. "Charlotte Flair" doesn't really sound right either.

Nah, his name is Dan Matha. This is Tino Sabbatelli:

http://41.media.tumblr.com/dc55d2843...yz7vo3_400.jpg

Hugo Knox, the former British football player, has got a really good look too. I wonder how they are coming along in the ring? If they can string a few moves together, they've actually got some guys who look like stars coming up.

I really want Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn for the Intercontinental Title at WrestleMania. I have no idea how you get past Zayn being on RAW, but I'm sure you can work something where Zayn puts everything on the line against Owens at the Royal Rumble, or something. Title vs. Roster Spot. Zayn loses, enters the Royal Rumble, has a really good showing, but gets tossed out by a heel Ziggler or something.

Zayn vs. Ziggler after Bryan and Shane hire Zayn and Ziggler protests because he's a loser, Zayn goes over, Nakamura debuts and beats Miz for the belt at some point, Zayn vs. Nakamura for the IC Title at Mania.

Or you could simple trade Zayn for Kalisto, since they seem like they are in opposite spots.

Santino? :shifty:

Not really sure what's gotten into Noid as of late with this shift toward looks and whatnot, but I gotta say it's kinda dumb. Wrestling is a niche product, and it's gonna continue to be so. No amount of handsome dudes and hot chicks is gonna change that. The "magic" that was the Attitude Era was just a flash in the pan that I honestly don't think will ever be achieved again, and the time when wrestling could be a phenomenon like it was in the 80s went the way of the dodo a looong time ago. WWE needs to just focus on being the best wrestling show out there and stop this nonsense of thinking it can overcome the stigma that's attached to it. Embrace the stigma, make it their own. Until they do that they're gonna just continue to spiral like they have been.

It's about looking believable and making people suspend disbelief. If people aren't even willing to ironically engage with someone as a main event star, then why are they going to waste their time on the product? You are seeing that play out.

Running from the stigma of pro-wrestling is what they are doing with "normal guys" headlining. They're not even more or less talented than anyone else on the roster. Everyone gets a participation medal and it's hard for anyone to emerge as a star if everyone is a star. The whole product is gentrified and samey.

If everyone looked like a million bucks? That would suck too. You get some "body guys" that are the raging shits. Wrestling has always fueled itself on larger than life personalities and honest-to-God charisma. Who on the roster is actually genuinely charismatic? There are a few guys that seem to be hitting all cylinders in NXT (Joe, Roode, Nakamura) but we've seen that the ability to lead the Full Sail audience doesn't always translate to the main roster.

But you also need some pieces of shit to make the great guys look good. You need your lugs that haven't put it all together yet. You need your guys that are all promo, or all ring work. You need that variety so a hierarchy emerges, and whoever is booking/writing/producing can look at a few guys and say "Right, this guy here; this guy there; that girl here." Sometimes if an act is hot, you need to send it away so that it doesn't fizzle before it plays out and then you can never go back.

Give me guys like John Cena and Bobby Roode, but also give me Samoa Joe and Shinsuke Nakamura. And give me these guys from NXT who look like a million bucks and send them on a winning streak -- one on RAW and one on SmackDown. Hire some ugly girls to fight the pretty ones. If someone is getting booed by the crowd, TURN THEM HEEL!

How does any of what you just said relate to the looks of the guys in question? I agree with you on the statement that no one can be a star if everyone gets a turn, but that's not at all determined by the look of their stars, it's in the booking. A guy like Bray Wyatt for example could be a huge star right now, but he's not because they keep having him lose literally every fight he picks. His physique has nothing to do with that.

Also I don't know what kind of "normal guys" you see on a daily basis, but I'd hardly call guys like Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, Fin Balor, etc "normal." Dudes have abs on their abs for Christ's sake. Unless you're spending half your time in the gym daily I seriously doubt you see guys like that very often. This really just sounds like a height thing.

Oh, and "samey?" How? :wtf: You've got one of the most physically diverse rosters we've ever seen in wrestling history right now. Pretty much every body-type imaginable is on display.

You're the one projecting the looks thing onto me. I don't only care about a person's looks. I feel that aesthetic is important in any form of performance art, absolutely, but you're the one who wants to the limit the scope to looks, I guess.

Bray Wyatt absolutely could be a star if he were booked correctly, I agree with you there. It's a shame that the booking is fucking shit.

Everyone works the same fucking match these days. Everyone kicks out of everyone's finishers. That's how I mean samey.

Guys are the same for so many years at a time now too. Bray Wyatt has been Bray Wyatt with very little development for three years now. It's coming on the same period of time for Luke Harper (who is awesome, by the way). It seems that everybody gets something sorta down, then they stay the same for ten years and play either a fiery babyface version or cowardly heel version of the same gimmick.

It's stale versus fresh. No one is really heading anywhere with what they're doing. Just look at the rosters for the video games. 2K have to keep putting legends in because otherwise there's very little reason to actually purchase the games.

PREEMPTIVE NOTE: I am not saying change for the sake of change is good. And I know that I'm talking about people's livelihoods and I do want everybody who can make a living in wrestling to do so. But looking at things from a creative/business perspective? Wrestling needs to be fresher than the same old shit every week.

If you didn't intend to say anything about physiques then I apologize. It really did come off that way though based on some of your previous posts around here, and the way you said "samey."

I agree completely with you about pretty much everything you've clarified here, but again you seem to be putting the blame on the roster when it is 100% the booking end of things. We don't need new guys because those new guys will just get treated like shit too when they come in. What we need is better writing, less control over the talent, and overall just better booking. You can see it when the talent is allowed to "do their own thing" that they have big new ideas, and they have talent. The issue is they're not allowed to show it.

As for the matches all being the same, well, that's a side effect of the previously mentioned problem. If you're not allowed to have control over anything but your matches you're gonna end up wanting to do everything possible in them. Guys want to have 5 star matches and kick out of finishers and shit because that's the only way they can get noticed anymore. WWE's taken away pretty much every other outlet they have.

I do stand by my previous statement though. Fixing all of these issues would help the product a lot, but it wouldn't suddenly make wrestling "cool" again. That ship has sailed. WWE needs to focus on being the best damn wrestling show they can be, and they need to find that happy balance between making a good product and pandering to their dedicated fanbase. I think they've done a decent job of that on the talent end of things with signing guys like Owens, Rollins, Styles, etc, but now they need to put the pieces together and tell good stories with those guys. They also need to learn that sometimes it's okay to listen to your fans. Pushing a guy like Bryan, turning Roman heel, these things shouldn't be so difficult for this company.

I can agree with that. A big problem is that you have a whole bunch of guys writing, and often they are writing for Vince, because they know what will get approved and what won't. They are also writing with their own long-term vision in place, and that is going to clash against another person's vision, which is going to be knocked back down by Vince and then no one is over.

On a recent Jim Cornette Experience, Dutch Mantel talks about booking in TNA, and how he'd have an idea for a person, then someone else will say "Hey! You can then do this!" and then it goes around the table, everybody throws something in there, and then it comes back around and the idea is completely different and for a completely different guy.

I think wrestling needs to return to having a genuine booker -- or at least a team picked by a single booker. I'd love to see a Paul Heyman vs. Dutch Mantel war. Whoever has the least growth in product steps down after six months and goes back into cycle, and someone else steps up and heads their own team. Maybe Arn Anderson? You keep the flavor of the shows rolling along, guys get to regenerate when they have burnt out all their good ideas, and you'll ultimately get lots of different flavor and different guys being emphasized.

Not pushing Bryan and not turning Reigns have been really stupid things. Hell, Cena should have turned if we're being serious. Heel Cena would cause a ratings spike, I am sure of it. He should screw Becky Lynch out of the Women's Title and help Nikki win it.

I don't know if wrestling can be cool again, but I think you can grow the product, and I think "good wrestling" is subjective. I've found a lot of the matches recently boring because they don't have anything real at stake. Everybody is going to have a job in 2 years wearing similar gear and using the same theme music.

That's a pretty good idea honestly. What's that old saying, too many cooks spoils the broth? Too bad WWE is too stubborn to do something like this.

That might be one change that comes if Triple H takes over, and it might be the most important one. Triple H at least seems to understand how wrestling works at a fundamental level. I'm sure Vince gets that too, but as you said, he's too stubborn and believes he is constructing something for Hollywood -- but I think he forgets that most screenplays don't have that many writers either.

As weird as this sounds, watching Backlash it felt as if it were a show that Dutch Mantel would have booked if he was on the team. I mean, I'm just gathering that from the way he talks. I wonder if he's got a line through to someone on the SmackDown team and took a call from them sometime during the week heading up to it?

Court Bauer (a one time SmackDown writer) used to call Gary Hart and get ideas for SmackDown around '06.

Cena turning heel would definitely be an amazing thing for the company. Too bad it'll never happen.

Oh, I'm not saying you couldn't get more ratings out of the show, but you'll never reach Attitude Era levels of viewership. Fixing all the problems we've gone over would probably bring back a HUGE portion of the ex-fans who've dropped off over the years. People who haven't watched wrestling since they were kids might tune in again. However, I don't think anything will ever bring in people who just have no interest in wrestling. You're not gonna catch someone who's never had any sort of exposure or interest in the product and change their mind no matter how great your product is. With comic book movies you could do this because despite comics being an extremely niche product putting them in a movie format and changing them the way they have makes it possible for mainstream audiences to see it as "worthy." I think the same can be said of a movie like The Wrestler which I remember tons of people in my life who've never watched wrestling talking about. However, actual wrestling will always be the comic book in this situation. I think you can grow it like you said, but there's always gonna be a pretty hard cap on how far that growth goes, and I think WWE needs to come to terms with that and just focus on shooting for that cap.

Talking about booking, ROH could really use a break from Delirious for a while. Not because he's shit or banging the talent or anything like that -- but just to give him a break and give the product a new feel for a little while. Maybe he could return to the ring or focus on training guys for a year or so. No pay cut.

Kevin Sullivan has an open channel with ROH at the moment. I have a feeling he had something to do with the recent Jay Lethal/Adam Cole angle. Maybe he could take over for a few months with his own team and see what he can do? He could mentor someone like Nigel McGuinness or even Kevin Kelly, then hand it over to them or get them to take over after Delirious returns as booker.

It'd be interesting if a woman were brought in and given a shot at booking too. A female mind and what they view as star potential, and who they see worthy as pushing could be an eye-opener too. Lisa Moretti (Ivory) immediately comes to mind.

I completely agree with this, and have often thought of comic books being quite similar to wrestling. Except I'd argue that comics have enjoyed a heightened success due to the success of Marvel/DC movies (although I haven't actually seen numbers to back this up).

I actually think the ratings share for wrestling should be much higher than it's ever been -- given that, as people point out, television itself seems to be a dying medium in the form of network television and cable. What else are people watching on a Monday night if not new live content? I don't think it's just that wrestling is niche, but it seems to be something that people are actively avoiding.

Bringing in a woman could be a very interesting turn of events. I'm a huge animation enthusiast, and in recent years we've seen a huge spike in women directing and writing for animated TV shows. Funny thing is since this happened a lot of people are calling it an animation renaissance right now. From what I can tell the newer women writers and directors seem to put more emphasis on creating scenarios for characters to interact in which in turn makes people care more about these characters. Something like this in wrestling could be the shot it needs since a huge issue right now is the lack of reason behind everything. A 5-star match means nothing if it doesn't have emotion behind it. Make me care about the two guys involved. Make me understand who they are and why they're fighting.

Eh, comics right now are doing pretty good, but they're not growing as much as you'd think they would with the success of the movies. They're making more money than they've ever made, but that still means they're making waaaay less than pretty much any other medium out there right now. I don't know the exact numbers, but I do know from talking with guys in the industry at conventions and whatnot that working on comics barely pays the bills. A lot of them have to take commissions on a regular basis or find work outside the industry too to make ends meet. Still, you're right that there is growth there, mostly in the form of kids and millennials who are flocking to all the new characters popping up like Ms. Marvel and the focus on more comedy related content. Books like Deadpool and Harley Quinn seem to be a big indicator of the future of the industry. At least that's what I've noticed.

Kevin Sullivan had nothing to do with Lethal/Cole, he's only been involved with the Corino/Whitmer/Punisher Martinez angle.

Kevin Kelly is already part of the creative team, and is basically starting to take over for Delirious as he gains more responsibility.

And Ivory in late 2016 is not an eye opener. She was never good to begin with and hasn't wrestled in ten years. How would she be worthy of pushing? Everyone talks about how signing WWE rejects doesn't help... you want to bring in Ivory to help ROH???? :wtf::wtf::wtf:

No, because Charlotte isn't her real name.

Does anybody else get invitations to do/join WWE Fan Council surveys?

Biggest problem is Vince is too paranoid over lost merch sales if they ever turned Cena heel. Same for whenever they try to make him look weak.

Think the sheets have teased over the years Vince wants to wait for whenever Cena's successor is completely ready to turn Cena and have the "passing of the torch" happen at Mania. Reigns struggling as that successor means its going to be a while before it happens or even longer if the WWE/Vince decides on picking someone else instead.

Then again if Vince had listened to Cena, he would have turned heel around the time of the Rock feud.

He meant bring in Ivory as a booker, not as a wrestler...

A moot point in 2016 but Ivory was a tremendous worker.

...What does Ivory know about booking...:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

Looks like another Meathead that couldn't spell Meathead.

If that Fabian Aichner? He looked like the next Randy Orton in the CWC.

Probably just as much as any of the other countless former wrestlers who turned booker. You seem to be under the impression that bringing in someone who's wrestled but never booked is new to the business. Also for all I know she might have some history at it. I'm too lazy to use the google machine right now though.

Also true.

And all of those people have stayed in contact with the business in some shape or form since retiring as wrestler and transitioning into the agent/creative role. Ivory has not had any contact with wrestling since 2006. And she wasn't good at all. Which Ivory match did you think was so great??

WWE rumored to have made a bid to purchase or be the new owner of TNA.

According to the Observer, the real value of TNA is more like $4 million and not $40 million. For some reference, WWE bought WCW for a little over $2 million and ECW for around a million.

http://nypost.com/2016/09/16/billy-c...tna-wrestling/
https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/s...300324352?s=09

I'll give them my weekly pay of $2,100.

Nah then you'd be what you hate the most: a minority owner. :D

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$40 Million is kind of a crazy number. I'd say WWE wouldn't spend anymore than $5-8 million for it. It's been reported Dixie wants $4million for her remaining 70%.

I'd argue TNA is worth more to WWE for the back catalog of matches they could upload to the network highlighting half of the NXT rosters past lol

I marked out.

My town wooo

Really intrigued by this TNA news. Probably know something by Bound for Glory as they'll have tapings after that they probably can't afford.

WWE buying them would be great as it would get a decent tape library. Probably wouldn't want a lot of the talent but could pick through who they wanted. They talked about wanting another NXT type promotion so maybe WWE just uses it for that. Like I said feel like the X Division would fit right in to NXT(I can see the yellow belt now) and would be a great mid card title for NXT.

ROH buying them would be cool as well. Sinclair could run them as TNA or merge them with ROH. Merger would probably be best so Ring of Honor could take that next step. They would add a lot of depth to the roster and beef up there main event scene.

Corgan getting full control wouldn't be bad either but is probably the option I would least like to see. He's came in and out some life into the product and is trying some different things like the Impact Grand Championship. He seems to have a vision and really wants to turn TNA around. Most definitely seems like Dixie Carter is out so that's a positive either way it goes.

$40 million for TNA is absurd. It's lucky to be worth 1/4 of that.

Yeah, I don't think I would even pay $5,000,000 for TNA at this point.

The 40 is rumored to be debt not value.

No it's not, they took that estimate from WWEs revenue and it had nothing to do with TNAs actual value.

How do you know? Sullivan has hinted on his podcast that he's been interacting backstage with a lot of the guys. It could just be him and MSL putting him over, but the shaving of the hair thing is very Sullivan-esque.

I didn't know that about Kevin Kelly. Thanks for sharing that. It's a shame you ruin it by completely not understanding what I was saying about Ivory. If English is not your first language, I apologize.

I don't know, honestly. But you do realize that wrestlers used to book wrestling, right? I picked her out because I was thinking of women that are knowledgeable about the business and have ring experience because I'd like to see a woman in charge. Ivory once out-worked Triple H in wrestler's court. She's always come off as a woman who knows what she is doing and has been able to take her ego out of things -- see how she did her best to put Chyna over -- and because of how she has spoken about Triple H in the past, I don't think she's at risk of jumping ship the moment she gets any traction (if that did happen).

Nah. This guy is 6'7. Dan Matha is his name. He's a former football player, but he actually sought training himself though, starting in OVW. He recently cut a promo at an NXT house show where he allegedly came off as being quite confident on the mic and in front of a crowd.

He'd be a long way off, but if he's a natural, his size and look should give him an edge over guys that look like they're off the street.

Sullivan tells tales

Lol, funny you say that -- Dave Meltzer said the real worth is about $4,000,000.

This seems out of character for "I wish to god there was a real alternative" me, but I'd actually like to see TNA purchased by the WWE. The success of AJ Styles and Bobby Roode has made me think that TNA was at least useful for giving some of these guys experience. I'm not sure if the WWE would keep TNA open as a sort of feeder promotion, as I'm sure they'd likely just fold it, but there is some talent worth plucking.

ROH purchasing it would be interesting. Something seems...bland about ROH at the moment. It might help them to have access to stars like Jeff Hardy and Bobby Lashley. If you put the ROH and TNA rosters together, you do end up with something looking really good.

Oh yeah. But he appeared on screen, so we can at least assume he was there.

I miss matches like this.


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Yeah I miss matches where Kevin Nash doesn't break his quad.

There's no way they are $40 mill in debt, if they were, they'd have taken tons of short-term loans to pay off talent and there'd never be rumors of late payments.

Random Hillary Clinton reference by JR. Was she topical at that point in time?

Trish always wonderful.

Weird to see Kevin Nash putting over Test for some reason. I don't know why.

I've not been enjoying RAW lately, but I'm actually intrigued to see Clash of Champions. I think the card is shaping up to be really interesting:

* Owens vs. Rollins
* Jericho vs. Zayn
* Reigns vs. Rusev
* Charlotte vs. Sasha
* New Day vs. Gallows & Anderson
* Bayley vs. Dana Brooke?
* Cruiserweight match
* Enzo & Cass vs. Shining Stars

From an in-ring perspective, that should be a varied and fun show. I'm also curious to see how it stacks up against Backlash. Given that RAW and SmackDown air different nights and have a different duration, I'm not sure how much "competition" there is between the two shows, but I can imagine there being some creative tension when it comes to just how the PPVs deliver proportionately in terms of response and the number of times they get viewed on the Network.

Who else would be intrigued by an Undertaker vs. Luke Harper program heading into WrestleMania next year?

No One

You are reading my mind. I was on board with this for years. As a way to set him up as a separate entity from Wyatt.

I guess it would make Harper stand out. But he would probably lose and it would lead nowhere. Also, I just can't get into Taker at WrestleMania now. As long as he had the streak he could get brought out in a wheelchair and the match would have a big fight feel and I'd be into it for the potential iconic moment. Now I couldn't care less.

I remember back in the 90's beating someone like Nash would be a big thing.

Test beating Nash in 2003 didn't really seem a big deal. I didn't even know it happened until I saw that video just now.

I would enjoy that but I'd prefer to see Undertaker vs AJ Styles tbh. He's one of the last guys that can send Taker off in style, though Cena could be good for Taker as well.

I think Harper vs Strowman or Harper vs Wyatt would be dope.

Until I hear different I assume Taker is retired.

Was that around the time she was running for Senate?

Don't wanna see Undertaker anywhere near Wrestlemania anymore. Having AJ Styles face him at Wrestlemania 33 would be a waste of AJ Styles.

Feel like if I was 10 years old I would still find this stupid...


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheViper?src=hash">#TheViper</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/RandyOrton">@RandyOrton</a> wants you to take a bath, you TAKE a bath! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWENetwork?src=hash">#WWENetwork</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWESlamCity?src=hash">#WWESlamCity</a> <a href="https://t.co/VJ3EFOcxEQ">pic.twitter.com/VJ3EFOcxEQ</a></p>&mdash; WWE Network (@WWENetwork) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWENetwork/status/777598451668258816">September 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
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They need to do Taker vs Cena at WM33 and let him ride off into the sunset.

Hidden track featuring Guerillas of Destiny, Tamina, and Meng.

Not really a appropriate line for a kid show.

Ride, you say?

Rapper Cena vs Biker Taker only

That pop when Dean Malenko pulls off the Ciclope mask at Slamboree '98.

I know people here love Owens, but I was thinking the other day -- if he decided to step out of full-time competition, he'd make an AMAZING manager. Like, the next Bobby Heenan, and I try not to throw that around too much.

Very high praise, but a very accurate statement.

Yeah I can see it now. If Noid were Vince then he'd have the head of creative, Ivory, come to Kevin and sit down with him. "Now Kevin, I know you are in the prime of your career and your entire life goal was to wrestle for the WWE, but we think it's time you hang up the boots. Now as you know, I've been pushing for Epico to main event, but he's just lacking that one thing. And that one thing is you. Instead of you main eventing these next few years as a wrestler, you're going to main event managing Epico!!!"

I'm sure Kevin would love that... :wtf::wtf::wtf::roll::roll::roll:

This should make yalls Monday better.

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:)Maybe in 10 years after he's lost a step or two in the ring but the guy is to talented to take out of the ring. WWE does need more managers that were former wrestlers though. JBL would be make good one I think.