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May I ask what the Stephanie Brown debacle is?
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The only "debacle" I can think of (aside from the very existence of most of the DCnU) is that Stephanie Brown was supposed to be Batgirl in the Smallville Season 11 comic book, but DC made the writer turn her into Barbara Gordon.
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O... Is that something that's really catastrophic?
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It is weird and kinda stupid, but don't see how it relates to Young Justice.
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Stephanie Brown was slated to appear in an episode of Young Justice (or maybe already did), but the character has been labelled as "toxic" by DC management, alongside Cass Cain and some others, and she is not supposed to appear in any DC-related product, hence why when they realised BQM was trying to slip her through in Smallville season 11, she got replaced with Babs. So upon discovering she was supposed to be in Young Justice, DC flipped its lid and got it pulled. Allegedly.
Incidentally, the new villain Knightfall was taken by many Steph fans to be a deliberate dig at them (blonde haired girl in "Steph's colours" looking like a cross between Azrael and Spoiler, etc) - yeah, it's a stretch, but they've caused enough of a ruckus that Gail Simone is trying to get the colour scheme changed so that there will be absolutely no confusion or allusion that the character was in any way inspired by Steph. |
From DC Women Kicking Ass:
My in-boxes started to fill up early yesterday with notes. And more notes. And then there were emails and tweets. And they all asked the same thing; did Cartoon Network pull Young Justice and postpone it until January because Stephanie Brown was in it? http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mby8k9s4Jz1qbujox.jpg First let’s clarify things. Cartoon Network didn’t pull Young Justice. It pulled DC Nation including Green Lantern, DC Digital shorts (including the premiere of Amethyst) and Young Justice. The creator of Green Lantern is upset; the creator of the Amethyst short is understandably mad as well) Secondly, Cartoon Network has been futzing with their schedule on Young Justice since the show premiered. In fact according to Greg Weisman the episode that was scheduled to appear on Saturday was supposed to have been the hiatus episode for the second season but they ended up going on hiatus earlier. So why did Cartoon Network pull it? There are a few theories floating around: 1. That there is ongoing legal issues with the use of Milestone characters and since Icon and Rocket are in the show, they postponed until January. This was first reported here but in the comments you can see that the TV rights are separate from the comics rights. And the comics rights are being dealt with right now based on comments I heard at NYCC. 2. Cartoon Network is unhappy with the ratings. The show is one of the top rated on CN but I’m not sure whether it is in key demographics. So it’s a possibility. 3. Cartoon Network is flaky and decided to put the show on hiatus at the last minute because they are celebrating their 20th Anniversary We’ve seen them postpone stuff before including YJ. And they are celebrating their anniversary. Still seems sudden. But definitely flaky. 4. Someone at DC Comics who doesn’t want Stephanie Brown to appear anywhere (whether because she is “toxic” or on ice for a huge comeback in a few years) they found out about the show this week and demanded that Cartoon Network, which is owned by Turner, put DC Nation on hiatus so she could be removed. I’ve checked out a few different sources and honestly I’m not sure anyone at DC even knew Stephanie Brown was going to be in the show. Don’t get me wrong. She’s still toxic in comics (and I was told that by not one but two more sources this past week - BUT, well I’ll save that for another post in a few weeks … maybe), but TV is separate from comics and CN is not part of the WB. And if they really had an issue with the show they could have run a repeat of another episode. We’re still waiting to hear an official explanation from CN but my take is the Stephanie issue is a non-starter. -------------------------------- Although that's kind of why I said "allegedly", because at best it's a running theory that she had something to do with it, given how much vitriol DC's upper management seems to reserve for the character. |
This whole situation makes me hate the corporate part of these companies. All this over bullshit.
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Young Justice deserves better than this. Green Lantern is growing on me as well. These gems desrve way more credit for luring in viewers to the Saturday/Sunday Morning Timeslots.
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I was wondering whether that blonde chick was supposed to be a nod to Stephanie Brown.
Black kid with the hat was definitely a nod to Static. They showed both of them a lot. |
They did. almost as if they're planning to hook up the team with both characters in season 3.
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I miss Stephanie Brown as Batgirl so much. :'(
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...icture1-39.png |
I loved the dynamic between her and Damien.
In the OLD DC Universe. |
Wait why are Stephanie Brown and Cass Cain "Toxic"?
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Don't know where the word "toxic" came from... but basically, upper DC Management just does not want them to appear anywhere. Probably to get Barbara Gordon "over" as the "one and only" Batgirl again.
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Stupid.
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Like that time in the 90s when they wanted Kyle Rayner to be the "one and only" Green Lantern. Killed Hal Jordan and the entire Corps, Depowered and Crippled John Stewart, Messed up Guy Gardner (not that he was even a Green Lantern at the time, but he did use a "power ring", so that had to go), and turned Alan Scott into Sentinel.
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Also stupid.
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Watched Arrow tonight, and I'm not feeling it.
Really didn't like the Cop dad. He kind of sucked. |
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---------------------------------- From The Outhouse (read more): Last night, the Outhouse reported that executives at DC had instructed Bryan Q. Miller to remove the character Stephanie Brown from an upcoming Smallville Season 11 arc and had given him a list of approved characters with which to replace her. Miller ultimately chose Barbara Gordon from the list, which allegedly also included Dick Grayson. Shortly thereafter, Wired.com reported that multiple sources at DC considered both Brown and Cassandra Cain, another former Batgirl, as "toxic" characters. Reaching out to several DC sources, I can confirm that "toxic" is indeed the word being bandied about by DC executives, with one source quoted as saying "Toxic? Yup, that about sums it up." The uncomfortable truth of the matter is that DC does not consider Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown to be marketable characters and is doing their best to scrub their comics clean of them, looking to prevent the characters from ever having a chance to take root in a book, be it in a starring or supporting role. |
Just so very stupid.
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Yeah, it's ridiculous, honestly. No idea why they think Cass and Steph aren't marketable. Cass was a brilliant character. As was Steph. It makes me more sad that she was "officially" never a Robin than it does that it happened to Tim. At least Tim still exists.
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I really thought that Steph finally really found her "place" in the DCU with becoming Batgirl.
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Yeah she's actually my fave Batgirl. I felt like she earned it rather than 'that's just how it is, Babs is Batgirl'.
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So did I. As I'm pretty sure I've expressed somewhere along the line in this thread, when Bruce was displaced in time, even though I knew it was temporary, I really dug the 'new' Bat family, with Dick and Damian at its core, Tim in Dick's old role, and Steph as Batgirl. The rapport among the Bat-kids was just phenomenal. I liked that Dick wasn't as brooding as Bruce. I dunno, I feel like that really could have been an exciting new chapter for the story. Even when Bruce got back, I had quiet hopes he would take on a role similar to that he has in Batman Beyond, rather than re-assuming the central mantle.
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Totally. I even liked it after Bruce came back, with the whole two Batmen deal. Dick still starred in a number of books as Batman, with Damien by his side. Bruce mostly did his own thing, and worked on Batman Incorporated. He let Dick worry about Gotham for the most part, as well as take on a role in the Justice League. Also, it seemed that when he needed backup, he would go to Tim. So you had Dick and Damien, and Bruce and Tim. Was pretty good. I thought they could just keep on going with that.
Also, I enjoyed the dynamic between Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin more than I have the dynamic of Bruce and Damien. |
I mean, realistically I knew that Dick would not be Batman forever... but I expected it to come to a head in some sort of kickass story where he decides to stop being Batman, and becomes his own man again.... but is still just as prominent.
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"She's not toxic, but we're gonna treat her pretty much like she is because we actually love her."
Whatever. |
DiDio is often cited as being one of the key people who is totally against her presence anywhere in DC-related media at the moment, so honestly, I find that whole speech disingenuous as fuck.
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Pretty much have hated DiDio ever since my first exposure to him was when he took over writing Superboy's series..... and thought it would be a good idea to do away with all of his supporting cast and move him to an apartment building, where he would act as the SUPERintendent. Series was quickly canceled five or six issues later.
I know it probably isn't all his fault... but I blamed him nonetheless. |
I caught the first two episodes of Arrow last night. Good stuff I thought.
I never watched Smallville (mostly because I never got CW most of the time it was on), was it this good? |
It had its ups and downs.
As I expect Arrow will. |
WB puts the Justice League movie down for the same date as Avengers 2.
It's going down, and somebody's gonna get embarrassed. |
Stupid, stupid move.
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I don't see the news about the same date. I see the same year. No freakin' way would they do the same date. Nobody is that stupid. ...... Right?
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"Summer 2015" is all I can find for it, versus May 1st 2015 for Avengers 2, which isn't quite summer.
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Apologies, same date was my preemptive speculation and I should do more sleuthing before I post it here, unless I have several details supporting my thoughts.
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Pretty big speculation right there.
"2015? Avengers is being released that year! MUST BE THE SAME DATE." |
Alright, I get it.
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Holy shit I'm excited to see a JL on screen
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I was about to suggest Starro the Conqueror as the villain (R.E.B.E.L.S. style), but it would probably be too similar to The Avengers (Heroes band together to fight otherworldly threat/space army). Plus mind-controlling villain who would inevitably briefly control one or more of the heroes.
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Clock King 4 JL villain
It's time for a change |
Also have any of you guys seen the thing about the refrigerator remaining canon? Pretty interesting.
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Green Lantern's Girlfriend in a Refrigerator?
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Fuck that; Darksied.
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Screw that; Anti-Monitor.
:shifty: |
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Actually, if nothing else, and all storyline gripes aside, I like the fact that the New 52 has stimulated so much discussion and participation from the readers. Covers be getting changed because of them (see Catwoman #0), colour schemes revised, etc. It's kind of nice. |
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You know that refridgerator thing reminds me. I was wondering earlier if the whole Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen saga and Bane breaking Batman remains canon or if that never happened either or if we go through it again.
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I saw that this morning, pretty great. Yale obviously has a bit of a thing for Gaiman.
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Here you go, if you're interested (read more):
Those who picked up Green Lantern: New Guardians #13 this week learned that despite the compression of the time that “superheroes” have been existence, despite the missing characters and despite slowly but surely the retconning of many character’s origin Kyle Rayner’s history still includes this: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc3zc9z5Pg1qbujox.jpg Alex DeWitt was still killed and stuffed in a refrigerator. And here’s why I’m happy about it. <!-- more --> When Alex DeWitt was murdered and stuffed in a refrigerator in Green Lantern #54 in 1994, I don’t think the writer, Ron Marz, or any of the books’ readers thought that it would become a pivotal moment in the history of comics for women. But it was. Five years later writer Gail Simone began cataloging female characters that who have been either “depowered, raped, or cut up and stuck in the refrigerator.” She wrote at the time, “it occurred to me that it’s not that healthy to be a female character in comics.” And then she asked the question of variety of industry folks, “does it mean anything?” The result was a website, Women in Refrigerators (WiR). The original list is still posted as are the responses that Simone received. While Alex DeWitt’s killing may have only been devised as a plot point for Kyle Rayner, it gave a name and help fuel a seminal and critical examination of superhero comics and how they treat women. Today when a female character is referred to as being “fridged” it is short hand for a trope that sadly continues in comics to this day. Has it gotten better since Alex was first killed? Absolutely? Better since Simone wrote about it? Absolutely. Do superhero comics still have work to do? Absolutely. And that’s why WiR is still important. ----------- |
I figured the refrigerator deal was still in continuity since Green Lantern, as Geoff John's pet franchise, was spared from being rebooted (beyond getting new #1s) and is pretty much the same as it was before.
I'd say Bane breaking Batman's back is still in continuity as well, since as Grant Morrison's pet franchise, it was similarly spared from heavy rebooting. I'd say Superman's Death and Return is out. Or if it is still in, it has to be vastly different to the point where it is a new story entirely. |
Superman's death and return is still in canon, as Supes himself alluded to it in the first issue of Swamp Thing. It was probably pretty heavily altered to fit in the new continuity, but until they say otherwise, Supes has died and come back before.
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I'm baffled as to why WB seems so compelled to make a JL film, especially in the near future with so many things up in the air. Nobody knows if Superman will be any good, our if out will be a hit wig audiences. Batmans done and needs to be rebooted. Green Lantern stinks, and the rest of theirmore notable heros haven't had a proper go on film. Exactly how does anyone see enough happening in two years to justify a JL movie?
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Because WB isn't looking at the quality of the movies; they're just looking at the obscene amounts of money The Avengers made, and want in on it.
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What NM said.
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Marvel took a lot of time to make, at the least, solid films to establish their characters. WB had Superman and...
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DC is going for the reverse effect, where they will spin off individual movies from the team movie.
Unfortunately, that means they have to spend time establishing all the characters in their team movie. Avengers was literally like "Hey, here's Thor. He's on Earth somehow. BAM" |
Ya know... it may work...
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With the Young Justice episode posted a while back I was inspired by that and the posting of the Little League comics to maybe begin posting embeds of entire episodes of Marvel/DC 'toons from a very reliable site I've been using for a while now. How would you gentlemen feel about evolving the comic threads to be deposits of the latest cartoons and even live-action shows (Arrow, etc) when uploads are found?
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The problem with spinning off after a main film is theres not enough time to establish and develop the characters to make you care, and theres no guarantee that audiences will care enough to see a film comprised of super heroes who have no theatrical following outside of possibly Superman. Its a terribly thought out business plan.
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Or a nice to test the waters based on who the audiences likes best. Why make a Wonder Woman movie if everybody loved the Flash most? I think it's a stupid way to go and they should at least emulate Marvel's build-up but if it's gonna be like this, there are some good points. Remember WB/DC are very focus test... focused. They will do what they feel makes money rather than gamble. Making sure the audiences likes something before committing a movies to him/her fits their agenda. Cowardly as it is.
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I actually wouldn't mind a Justice League movie if they did the original JLA, the five-person squad of Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman (Superman and Batman were honorary members, but weren't founders). That way, you don't have to worry about having to find another Batman or all the issues of whether the movie would conflict with the new Superman series, etc. Sure, people will bitch that they aren't there, but they're going to bitch if they are there, too, since Bale's done as Batman and Snyder and company have already said they have no intention of making the Superman movies tie-ins to a JL movie, so they'd have to re-cast.
Plus, making the JL movie about the other five guys in the Justice League would give them a lot more screen-time, and allow the rest of DC's A-List heroes to shine so they're not constantly over-shadowed by Batman and Superman. |
I like how in New Frontier, they don't really bother to establish the big names like Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman.
They do give a lot of attention to Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and to a lesser extent The Flash. The "team" doesn't even really come together until the end to fight the big threat that they have all been dealing with individually. Something in that fashion could work for a movie. |
I remember really enjoying Mark Waid's JLA: Year One as well. Team of Black Canary, Flash, GL, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman.
So I wouldn't be totally opposed if they chose to go the route of no Supes/Bats/Wondy |
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Arrow didn't seem too bad. First episode was alright, have to give it a few more weeks before I make my mind up for definite though.
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So in DC's never-ending attempt to make DCnU Superman completely unrecognizable from the character he's been for the last 74 years, Clark Kent is quitting his job at the Daily Planet. So no more Perry White, no more Jimmy Olsen, no more Lois Lane (though she was pretty much done as an important character as soon as Clark started boning Wonder Woman). Clark's been bitching about the Planet being bought out by Morgan Edge ever since the reboot began, and now he's apparently so fed up with having to write trashy info-tainment that he's quit the paper altogether and is going to start a new career as a blogger.
Scott Lobdell's backing it up by saying, "Superman is arguably the most powerful person on the planet, but how long can he sit at his desk with someone breathing down his neck and treating him like the least important person in the world?" (source) .....because apparently the guy they're trusting to write their flagship hero doesn't understand the entire concept of how the Clark Kent persona works. The fact that he's got a crap job and has to deal with getting hassled by co-workers and berated by bosses to make ends meet is how we're able to relate to him in the first place. Sure, in the tights he's an invincible demigod, but he's not a billionaire super-genius like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark. Yeah, he can do incredible stuff, but when he's not participating in super-heroics, he's just a normal guy, who has to deal with normal-guy problems. But hey, that's cool, it's not like we need to humanize Superman and give him ways for audiences to identify with him. We already got rid of his human wife so he could shack up with another invincible demigod, so why not just have him quit his everyman job too? Then we'll just have the all-powerful alien that everyone complains about being too powerful to like. This is another one of those things that just reeks of someone higher up at DC forcing a stupid change on one of their A-List franchises in order to seem "timely." Or the writers using the character as a soapbox to start preaching about whatever issue's gotten under their skin, like how Superman renounced his American citizenship during the recent turmoil in the Middle East, or how Marvel has Captain America either quit or get killed every time there's a Republican in office. Either Dan DiDio or Scott Lobdell has a beef with the news media, and therefore Superman isn't a reporter anymore. Yeah, I know it's not going to stick, like any of the other gimmicky bullshit they've done in the New 52, and I know sooner or later someone who actually gives a shit about the character will set things straight. But for now, I'm starting to think I should just start looking for some decent indie comics to read. |
MILD MANNERED REPORTER FFS
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Countless people feel overworked, under appreciated, and seriously consider leaving their jobs, if not actually going that far, to do something they can actually enjoy and not be hassled by slave driving management and made to feel unimportant.
If anything, this makes Clark more relatable. It shows he has self value, and, like any other person, he has limits, and when those limits are crossed, he breaks and quits his job. Thats very human. I get hes been written the same your 70+ years, but that doesn't mean it should stay that way, nor does it mean that the writers are "getting it wrong“ because theyre trying to infuse something new into the character. |
I'm with Damien on this one.
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I just hope he doesn't start an internet news blog. Like instead of writing articles for the Daily Planet, he runs and maintains his own blog.
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I have many issues with DCnU but Clark being an independent blogger is the least of them.
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With his glasses, people would start thinking he was some sorta Hipster.
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OK dude you are just in denial now, it's kind of sad. Like I understand you want to resist this as much as possible, but I would probably start getting used to the DCnU and start finding things in there to like because your argument hasn't changed in 12 months. |
Honestly, considering I've been holding out for over a year and the negatives still vastly outweigh the positives for me, I think I'll just find something else to read.
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I think you're gonna have to, since I am pretty sure they're not planning on changing their minds anytime soon.
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The only DC books I still read monthly are:
All-Star Western Animal Man Aquaman Earth 2 Swamp Thing Worlds' Finest I will also make a point of catching up with Batman and Green Lantern stuff every once in a while. I haven't really read much of the new Superman/boy/girl series... worried that I'd just get so super depressed and never recover. I will get there eventually, though. |
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http://i.newsarama.com/images/lilgotham_cover_rvsd.jpg
New digital series called Lil' Gotham will be starting on October 31st. It will apparently be monthly and be mostly about celebrating various holidays of the month. Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain are in it. |
Ha.
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Do I spy with my little eye...STEPHINE BROWN!?
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Yes.
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So I reread The Dark Knight Returns again yesterday, and I like it more then I did. It's growing on me.
However the DVD is still better then the book. The whole 2 face chapter comes across way more powerful and deep on the DVD. |
Read Superman Earth One Volume Two. It was "alright", which means it is stellar compared to most of the New 52 stuff.
I would enjoy it more if I did not have to wait a few years to read the next volume. Especially since this one seemed largely there to set up the next story, it felt like. Which is all fine and dandy if it were a monthly ongoing series.... but with having to wait a few years in between each volume.... each volume's story should have a big impact and story. |
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You got to be fucking kidding me.
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As the article says, the hair colour change has been confirmed, but the stripe removal is still up in the air. Even so, changing the hair colour is stupid as fuck. Looks amateurish and petty. See and a few pages ago you all thought I was overstating DC's vendetta against its benched characters, especially Steph. She is copping it.
The strange thing to me is that even though clearly people want her, DC isn't budging. OK, she might not move a million issues a month on her own, but she's a strong supporting character and I dunno. I feel like DC is just being stubborn and antagonistic for no really justifiable reason. |
These are the same people that made Batman TAS villains cock-blocked from the Justice League 'toons (mostly) despite how awesome some encounters would be. Very pointless.
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Don't get me started on Wayne and Diana never appearing in Smallville, even after it went full superhero mode.
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My guess the phone call is from Kreeblim. http://www.perma-bound.com/ws/image/...06980/m?ref=vd "No, Susan, you can't be Batgirl. They'll think you're someone else and change your hair color. Now shut up before he sees us!" |
Someone should alert DC that they left an old-costume Jay Garrick in Li'l Gotham. Needs to be changed to his new getup POST-HASTE!
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I've never been a huge DC guy. With that said, I'm loving Arrow.
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Laughed at pretty much all the scenes with his new bodyguard in the last episode.
Ollie: "I have to go to the bathroom" *several moments later* Diggle: "Oh he's long gone. Pffft." |
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