That is not the actual issue, the point being that they can't sell us on this revolutionary change when they are following the same blueprint TNA and ROH have been doing for 15 years.

I don’t have specific names, but apparently at the New Japan of America tapings last night, there was like one wrestler with WWE experience. I’m not saying they should avoid them completely, but they are out there. They’re just not friends with the EVPs.

Great point. You’re so smart and reasonable. Fucking cooked anus.

Yes. The blueprint of bringing in ex-WWE guys like TNA and top indy guys like ROH. As opposed to... ?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Since the news is out. I told you I’d dive on Kip again and dammit I did. But in doing so, I ended up with a high grade tear in my ACL. Yes I need surgery. Yes I’ll be out of the ring for a while. I’ll do my best to still show up on your TVs as much as I can. <a href="https://twitter.com/AEWrestling?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AEWrestling</a> ���� <a href="https://t.co/oVS495nwok">https://t.co/oVS495nwok</a></p>&mdash; Kris Statlander (@callmekrisstat) <a href="https://twitter.com/callmekrisstat/status/1272246509917163521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ricky Starks has an incredible ass. Glad they signed him or are bringing him in for a one-off. I have more eye candy than just Kip, Darby and Sammy now.

People complaining about AEW hiring people who have wrestled in WWE yet how many people have AEW gotten over since the company started?


Luchasaurus
Jungle Boy
MJF
Sammy Guevara
Darby Allin
Britt Baker

Almost like AEW is building people who will be stars for them for a while, what a novel concept!

The history of wrestling is built on bringing people in from other territories/companies.

I know 'back in the day' people used to complain Ric Flair was 'ruining the sport' because of his over the top reactions and flops in the ring (similar to people now with flips)...

...I wonder if fans back in the day used to complain about AWA or WCCW or NWA bringing in stars from other territories too...

Stars to who? Aside from MJF, have any of them won a high profile match? MJF beat Cody, and is a very good talker. Britt is also a very good talker, but she doesn't have any big win moments.

Having a company saying they are going to treat it like a real sport, but also we have dinosaurs and aliens does not mean they are stars, no matter how hard Tony Schiavone tries to sell it.

Having undersized skateboarders and tarzans have 10 minute draws does not mean they are stars, no matter how hard Jim Ross tries to sell it.

Why do you think that NBA on TNT Twitter used WWE characters to hype a Milwaukee Bucks vs LA Lakers, not AEW wrestlers on the same channel they are on.

I don’t get this knock on AEW’s hiring practice. Signing the best guys from TNA ROH and the Indies is the entire NXT model and they produced the best wrestling product in America since Bryan and Punk left ROH.

This method should be celebrated.

Right, that's not the point. The point is they promoted this brand as revolutionary, but they are just another wrestling show. As a wrestling fan a lot of it is good, some is bad, but it's much more good than bad.

The point is they aren't attracting new fans, because they are a blend of 2 wrestling companies that have been around 15 years. 2 wrestling companies that have never gained any substantial fanbase.

We enjoy it because we are wrestling fans, but AEW is certainly not this giant revolution of pro wrestling that they sold us on before Dynamite started and they had buzz and momentum.

Imagine if WWE didn’t hire Austin, Taker, HHH, Jericho, Eddie, Benoit, Edge, Hall, Nash, a thousand others because they didn’t want people to think they’re just hiring failed WCW guys. That’s an insane business practice. Hire people with talent.

How many of those folks were brought in and put over their home grown top guys right off the bat, though?

WWE pretty much has relied heavily on TNA/Impact and ROH to fill their big star needs in recent years considering the lack of home grown big stars their PC and NXT developmental systems have produced.

AEW not having a real scouting system in place is pretty much why they've relied more on WWE cast-offs and personal connections to help fill their roster. Same for them lacking a real academy or training place at the moment to help better develop their younger stars.

Probably considering how even more rabid wrestling fans were back in the day.

Even some wrestler hated the newer gen of stars back in the day considering the story of Lou Thesz hating Harley Race for a long time because he felt Race's style of wrestling was hurting the business and was too different from his own style.

AEW doesn’t have homegrown talent. They all come from somewhere else.

Or like WWE bringing in big names from the territories to build their golden era in the 80s?

They should call it AEWWE

Conrad Thompson should make a cameo dressed as the Shockmaster in a backstage segment

Only if Cody sees him and asks "uncle Fred?"

I've used that one, actually. That and Anything Else Wrestling are my favorites.

Harley Race was considered a spot monkey

Yeah, that's my point. If EVERYBODY else has done that, and then AEW ALSO does that, then they aren't special, original, or Revolutionary. Repeatedly telling me "Oh like WWE didn't do that" just proves AEW is just another wrestling company. They haven't changed or done anything different, which is why they lost a third of their fans in one year.

And before the "how many fans has WWE lost" replies come, again, that just proves my point, they are they same thing.

eh. I just know one show seems to entertain me more than the other. Maybe because I'm not familiar with a lot of the on-screen talent. I dunno.


I tried to watch Backlash..... didn't get far. Or, it could just be that wrasslin isn't "for me" anymore.

AEW has entertained me more consistently in the past year than WWE has in the past 10.

Doesn't mean I like everything about the show or that there hasn't been stuff on WWE that I've liked (see: SmackDown mid-2016-early 2017 which I thought was awesome)....but I don't feel like I'm wasting my time watching Dynamite every week. I find it's an easy two hour watch and even when they've had a mediocre episode they do a good job of rebounding the next week. In enjoy it.

To each their own.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who would you wanna see this dude from Prometheus wrestling in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a>? <a href="https://t.co/K78VX77Ztk">pic.twitter.com/K78VX77Ztk</a></p>&mdash; TNTDrama (@tntdrama) <a href="https://twitter.com/tntdrama/status/1272653932569882624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

AEW getting desperate

Again, this is a weird fucking thing to harp on them for being “same old shit” on. They aren’t allowed to get talent from WWE because that makes them like TNA. They aren’t allowed to get talent from the indies because that makes them like ROH. Since you can’t seem to answer me when I ask what the other option is I assume you expect them to be the first company to create their own wrestlers in a laboratory.

Exactly. It's not like WWE hasn't gotten talent out of the indies, multi-generational talent, WWE, etc. Unless you expect them to literally grow talent in a lab or pull talent literally from the ether and/or heavens, I don't know where you exactly you expect them to get talent from.

This is the dumbest criticism I've ever heard. I've never criticized any other promotion for getting talent from where they've got said talent from. What I've criticized them for is what they've actually done with the talent they've signed.

Let me know when any of the former WWE talent, or the AEW "original" talent (whateve the fuck that stupid ass standard/definition means), are (1) regularly or actively working to not put over other so-called AEW/unknown/new/original talent, (2) have little to no actual input on their character, storylines, or feuds, (3) are working ridiculously stupid scripted segments, matches, or promos every night/week, or (4) when they're all working the same pointless "WWE" or even "AEW" style of matches regardless of opponent every week.

Then, and only then, will AEW be anything close to being the same pathetic, cookie-cutter, bullshit, boring and pointless product that is WWE.

Also, let me know when AEW is run by an apparently senile, certainly ego maniacal, out of touch, approaching octogenarian, 74 year old guy, who only hires/employs around him, his own pathetic and equally stupid family members, and the same "yes" men who he's employed and trusted since the 1980s and 1990s.

Again, then and only then, will AEW be anything close to the same as WWE.

I'm not harping on it. All I said was they lost a third of the audience who tuned in to see something different, but then just saw more of what probably made them stop watching Impact or ROH 10 years ago. It is also part WWE in look, because they have a real budget.

I said a lot of stuff, people replying to THIS one point is the only reason I have addressed it further. For the record, of course they should sign former WWE guys, of course they should find Indy guys and bring them in.

I'm still watching every week, I'm not part of the 1/3rd of the audience they lost. That is because as I said originally, wrestling is still better than pretty much anything else on tv. AEW is much more good than bad, I enjoy it.

I guess best I can say is read the entire post as a whole, don't pick out one single point.

AEW is run by an incompetent, dog-wanking cunt who is absolutely spineless and just wants to pay people to hang out with him. He has said one thing and done another a billion times, and he actually sooks on Twitter when he gets out-smarted by talent. Tony Khan himself has said that AEW did too much comedy early on. Have they dialed that down? No. He’s spineless. And he’s to blame for Vince’s current monopoly. And the fucking idiots who clap like trained seals and can’t see what is going on.

I didn’t find anything terribly wrong with the other points in the post. That’s why I didn’t mention them. I picked out the weird point in the post where you condemned them for signing guys from WWE and also for signing guys from the indies because it was a fucking weird thing to say. And then double down on.

But I didn't condemn them for it, just that it is one of the reason they lost the 3rd of the audience they did. The casual/lapsed fans that sampled Dynamite and did not see a reinventing of the wheel, just another pro wrestling show, and tuned out.

I love AEW, the product makes me happy more often than not.

I disagree that it’s another pro-wrestling show or that they even had to reinvent the wheel. Just be good. AEW so much of the time (way more than a lot of people want to admit), is really bad sports entertainment-style wrestling parody. It’s more akin to what WWE does to alienate audiences than it is what has fundamentally worked in the past.

People had their intelligence insulted pretty quickly. I think the people on-board with AEW look past that because it’s not WWE and they are so hungry for something else that they’ll accept anything else.

Well alright.

I think AEW tries too hard to be the “back to the basics” rasslin’ show while also trying hard to appeal to a specific, “new age” part of that crowd that doesn’t give a fuck if anything makes sense. It’s a turn off. I don’t like it.

WWE does the same kinda thing where they try to appeal to both casual fans and hardcore fans at the same time and it becomes a muddled mess.

That being said, I am able to find things in AEW that I enjoy even if I can’t make it through an entire show without cringing.

I can’t really say the same for WWE.

Same

I like MJF when he's not in music videos. Jungle Boy and Sammy Guevara are both really good, but they are often associated in a lot of cringe-worthy things. Not sure where the "back to basics" talk comes from. It really feels like they are trying to be "cutting edge" almost all the time and weld PWG-style comedy with 2000 WCW-type stuff. Well, it's not as good as Mean Gene calling people "pissants."

Cody’s matches, properly used enhancement talent, MJF’s entire existence, FTR hopefully, Dustin... there are plenty of “back to the basics” aspects.

I’m not really sold on Sammy but Jungle Boy gives me early 90s WCW Saturday Night Pillman vibes that I enjoy.

Also, they seem to be picking up a lot of guys who don’t look like I could beat them up, which is REALLY refreshing in 2020.

Watching Dark right now. One thing I absolutely do not like is how they treat Luchasaurus as an equal member of Jurassic Express. That is insane. He should be the hot tag that murders everybody after the other two get done.

Big Swole has combined a TKO into a GTS which is kinda cool. Also using a rainmaker discus forum which is a bit busy. Which is crazy because I previously said she uses a TKO into a GTS

Lance Archer would’ve been a main event heel in the 80s/early 90s. Good monster character.

I think Guevara has a ton of potential/upside. He's come a long way just establishing his personality since joining the inner circle on night one of tv.

I agree with everything you're saying. I think of AEW stuck to the basics across the show they'd be even better. Pretty much every Cody match is a shining example of how that shit works so well.

I've liked what they've done with Moxely. Page has grown a lot since being forced into the first world title match.

I don't mind the undercard comedy stuff. Matt Hardy schtick kills me. Especially because he's just broken right from the start. No build up for it. And the constant gimmick changes mid match doesn't do it for me at all.

Total built in storyline right there.

Completely disagree with properly used enhancement talent. Marko Stunt is not properly used enhancement talent. Nor is Alan Angels. The matches are way too competitive and the "talent" looks anything but. FTR and MJF I'll give you (hopefully -- I can still see FTR being made "funny"). Dustin...eh. Ideally, but he doesn't fucking do much of anything. Teaming with QT Marshall is so flat, and they're doing this thing with Brandi and Allie which reeks of The Diamonds in the Rough splitting because Elix Skipper got a new girlfriend or something. The match with Cody, sure, but you can leave your fucking Natural Nightmares.

Sammy is going to be way better as a babyface, and I don't like how they've turned him into a comedy guy. Jungle Boy is someone I completely endorse.

Within five years, it's very likely MJF, Sammy Guevara and Jungle Boy will all be under WWE contract, haha.

Watching Dark. Luchasaurus should keep his strikes simple. He threw a basic knee and kick and because he's fucking huge, it looked great.

One day he's gonna lose his mask and it'll propel him up the card, imo.

He's not huge though. Hager, Archer, Brodie, and even Dustin are bigger than he is. He is roughly the same size as Billy Gunn.

Just cause he wrestles with and against 5 foot 8 guys doesn't actually mean he is huge.

Billy Gunn is enormous.

I was gonna say that but I thought it would lead to a weird conversation where xrod would be like “but that wasn’t my point” and then I’d be like “Well, you said that thing verbatim and it didn’t make sense” and then he’d be like “Yeah, but you’re missing the point. Of course Billy Gunn is huge...” and then my head would start to hurt.

Billy Gunn is not huge. Braun Strowman is huge. 6'8" 385lbs should be the starting point for huge, not a dude built like pre-steroids Test.

I disagree mostly in regards to him losing the mask.

Rather he feel unique than become just another potential generic big man and just wrestle as one as well. All he really needs is to add a power move to his arsenal to enhance his big man status in a group that's very balanced in terms of guy types.

The mask stuff has been a big issue I've had with WWE over the years with masked guys. Either WWE quickly unmasks them or changes them too much that they lose what made them feel special to begin with. El Hijo del Phantasmo being the latest incident of this more so on the sudden unmasking.

How about this: Billy Gunn is bigger than you would assume he is in both height and mass, be it enhanced or not. The point was a viable measuring stick on how much of a "monster" Luchasaurus actually is in relation to the talent on the roster, not a debate in semantics on the definition of "huge".

That's something you can count on WWE doing: taking luchadores out of masks to repackage under a trademarked name, and burying & breaking up perfectly fine tag teams for no good goddamn reason only to throw together other random ass singles stars when they "need" a team.

I think the only reason why Lucha House Party were all still masked was because they were convinced they could "create" another Rey Rey. Ask either Sin Cara how well that shit worked out.

I have less problem with Luchasaurus keeping his mask than I do Excalibur, and I am in the minority that thought nothing of Excal wearing his in the booth while mostly everyone else was throwing a shit fit about it.

Which was my point, the narrative that Luchasaurus is so huge is bullshit, he isnt. He's billed at 6'5" 270lbs. Billy Gunn at 56 is roughly the exact same size and never worked a "big man" gimmick.

Both Rock and Triple H are in the same range, not to mention both who were more muscular, and neither of them worked the "big man" gimmick either.

Luchasauras only looks big wrestling against 5'8" guys and teaming with 5'5" and 5'2" 125 pounders. But it's typical wrestling smoke and mirrors, he is no more huge then he is a real dinosaur.I

Then when he squares up against a Jake Hager and is visibly smaller, it instantly exposes him as not really that big.

Brock Lesnar is 6'3 286, and he's always been presented as a monster. Luchasaurus is a big man. If they present him as a monster, he can be a monster, or big man.

Good to know AEW doesn't drug test.

Because Brock Lesnar is a monster. Same as Bobby Lashley. That jacked with real life skills is a different factor altogether. They are actual could kill 99.99% of the people walking around in this earth with their bare hands.

They are a whole other category.

Luchasaurus isn’t very good, which is a shame, because he’s got a good look. Although he looks like knock-off Seth Rollins without the mask.

Except everyone in wrestling talks about how big Billy Gunn is. He isn’t a giant but he is like 6”5 260 or 270, especially since he is on the gear. If you were next to him you’d shit yourself.

I met Billy Gunn a couple of years ago. He was at eye level with me and I'm 6"5 1/2

Gertner wears lifts.

Like his head came up to your eyes or you were around the same height?

I think if Billy Gunn had the grasp of psychology he has now back when he looked the way he did in '96-'97, he'd have been the star they wanted him to be in '99-'00.

Yeah, he was kept around despite his lack of "it factor" largely because of the way he looked, plus he was a tremendous athlete. Prichard discussed how he actually had asthma which gave him big problems in longer, main event style matches--which hurt him in the long run.

It's weird, he'd do super athletic things, but I can't remember a single good Billy Gunn match.

Same height

Kane, Chris Jericho and Iceman King Gertner

Watching Dark... I appreciate how this show kind of feels like WCW Saturday night. The veterans on this show are not as solid as the veterans WCW had under contract but still its solid. They can make some talent known on here too. Lots of chubby and skinny girls in AEW. They need to hit up Titan Games and steal those amazing women.

The costumes of some of the jobbers on Dark is embarrasing.

I cannot believe that with their budget they cannot get outfits that look semi-professional. Brodie Lee's gear was just awful, and he was supposed to be a main event level star. The willingness to let talent do whatever is just too much. Tony Khan says they don't want to be like WCW, but they kind of are in that regard.

According to Aubrey Edwards on the recent episode of Talk Is Jericho podcast, AEW's video game is in the very early stage of development.

Also revealed that Kenny Omega and herself are also helping work on the new game.

https://www.cbr.com/aew-video-game-k...ubrey-edwards/

My love affair with AEW is sliding. I am not a fan of Tony Khan as a person on Twitter, he is starting to remind me of an owner of an e-fed. Responding to Dave's tweet about how he shouldn't watch NJPW before any other wrestling because it's not fair was total cringe.

Add that to the horrible costumes they have been outfitting talent with and some pretty spastic booking along with a ton of twinky talent, I'm not as into AEW as I was about 3 or 4 weeks ago. I feel the last few Dynamite's have been subpar with other shows which was bound to happen because so many Dynamites have been brilliant.

Also I'm just a little unthrilled with the current angles aside from Mox/Cage.

I'd like to see some fire start burning hot on this show. I have a feeling this is the point where AEW is facing their fist identity crises of sorts. We are a year in and you still can't really say what AEW is yet. It's been a buffet of wrestling so far, and for me very enjoyable but now I'm waiting to see something a little more solid.

Yeah Tony moaning about Meltzer saving NJPW shows for last was really dumb. Anyone who's followed Dave for any length of time knows that Japanese wrestling has always been his favorite style with NJPW being the pinnacle of it.

He knows he's going to like that show the best out of everything he watches that day because it's appreciably different than all American promotions. Seems silly to try calling him out on it.

I think they’ve almost got too bloated a roster now that it must be tough deciding who to push. During Dynamite I could see the pieces for All Out falling into place but so many people probably left off the card

Card probably something like

Jericho v Tyson
Moxley v MJF
Cody v Brodie Lee
Dark Order v Hangman and Omega
Young Bucks v FTR
Hikaru Shida v Britt Baker (assuming she’s back in time)
Cage v Darby Allin (again assuming he’s back in time)
Best Friends and Orange Cassidy v Lucha Bros and PAC

That’s 8 fairly likely matches based on what they’ve had building up or started building towards pre-corona.

Then you’ve got all these guys who are/have been fairly prominent probably thrown into a battle royal or something I guess if you want them on the card. Seems quite a WWE thing to do though

The rest of Inner Circle
Matt Hardy
Lance Archer
Jungle Express
Private Party
Superbad Squad
Colt Cabana
Butcher and Blade
Dustin and QT
Shawn Spears
SCU
This new Starks guy

Yeah, the roster is definitely getting big for the TV time available.

Creatively the good thing about a big roster is that you don't have to overexpose anybody, you could easily make it so that nobody ever wrestles two Dynamites in a row. MJF wrestles one week, does a promo or vignette to advance his storyline the next, etc. They were pretty good at cycling talent like that pre-pandemic.

The flipside is it means stuff like Cody's Open Challenge becomes meh in a hurry because while he's a good worker, I don't necessarily want to see a 15 minute Cody match every week when there's other talent to be showcased. Same thing I'm critical of WWE with where they've got a giant roster yet the same guys wrestle every week while a quarter of the roster never make it out of catering.

The tag division is a bloated mess

Funnily enough I don’t think the tag division is a mess despite having so many teams. Nearly every team has something that separates them from the rest and they nearly all have some sort of ongoing storyline. They maybe could’ve done without teaming up Dustin/QT and Kip/Havoc since if anything they’re a bit short on midcard singles guys. But for the most part I like the rotation they have with their tag teams.

Although Jack Evans and Angelico need a lot more air time, they’re one of the best

AEW's roster doesn't bother me, I'd like to see them keep collecting people until they have the perfect mix of over talent then let the rest go...keep signing people like Starks, Abadon, etc, keep building up homegrown names and then release a ton of people when you no longer need their services...

I'd recommend cycling people in and out too, like soap operas do....once you have people over enough put them on tv for 3 months then take them off tv for 2-4 months while other stuff is happening...

The Lucha Brothers went from being the hottest tag team on the scene to also rans

thats bc of rona

I mean, they weren't doing much before the virus. Death Triangle is an odd partnership that made little sense and kinda felt like a throwaway group to give Pacsomething to do.

That's what I mean. They came in as the hottest tag team in wrestling . Lost in the shuffle.

Yep. In all reality they should've won the tag titles in the original tournament.

Just send them to one of the terr... nevermind.

I don’t know how well that’d go over with AEW fans.

AEW is plagued by terrible booking. No one wants to admit it, but the 50/50 booking and cutting guys off at the legs is even worse in AEW than it is WWE. Goodwill is extended to them just because they aren’t WWE. Except now people are starting to see through it, and because AEW took the goodwill and excuses as a sign they were doing well, they haven’t adapted.

I hate when people sell Marko Stunt's offense. I know I have to buy into certain things in rasslin, but with him I just can't.

Feels good to say that out loud.

They are basically selling the offense of a Make A Wish kid

Marko Stunt is a scourge.

That's exactly what I told my wife during Dynamite this week lol

It'd be one thing if they stumbled around when he hits a move. Or he drop kicks them and maybe they trip out of the ring. But these guys are bumping for him and it's dumb.

The new car smell is wearing off.

Right? They bump for this little fuck on purpose. I hate it.

I would happily bet Hornswoggle weighs more than Marko Stunt

Marko Stunt is their Hornswoggle, and people say this is an alternative. Bleh.

I also disliked the Undertaker parody with Baker & Swole this week.

(There were things I disliked about NXT this week too but nobody talks about NXT here)

Christ that is Monkey business is disgusting.