I heard it was tpww's #1 cyberbully, Anybody Thrilla!

Curtis I could see some of that talent getting signed by AEW. Lots of potential.

That wasnt my post, I was just making fun of the pictures in the backyard thread.
I guess thats not allowed here.

wtf slik why did you merge the backyard posts into this thread

come on... big mess now...

can't undo it unless i go through every single post and manually move each one back...

y would you do that.......

I dont care about the backyard posts, just got upset my posts got moved here to make it look like I posted those pictures randomly instead of having it "in context" with the backyard thread and wasted half an hour trying to entertain people with captions.

That's what i get for trying to "entertain" people. Fuck everyone

#1 rule of life, bullies and assholes ALWAYS win.

nvm dont waste your time, someone just wanted to do something nasty to me because they could tell I spent time and effort to try to be "funny" and they wanted to put me down and ruin my day, like my life isn't bad enough already.

I really don't get it. If you are succesfull in life, why do you have the urge to crap on people whose lives suck already and try to put everyone else down who isnt like u.

You should watch ALL ELITE WRESTLING on TNT this fall

You will feel better about your life

Very funny...I spent so much time and effort making captions and its all gone now because I deleted the posts since the mods were trying to make me look like a spammer or something.

You guys win, I'm not succesful in life and not even allowed to try to entertain people online because I'm not "part of the group". Its all the same crap that happened from junior high and up. That's why I barely watch any movies because "the good guy wins" is bs, only the worst assholes ever win. If your not like everybody else, they'll do everything in their effort to destroy you even over tiny little things like making a joke.

Such a Drama Queen!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">🚨<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWFullGear?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWFullGear</a> - Match Announcement🚨<br>Saturday, November 9th, 2019 - 7pm Local Start Time<a href="https://twitter.com/RoFoArena?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RoFoArena</a> - Baltimore, MD<br>Jon Moxley vs Kenny Omega<br>Tickets go on sale THIS FRIDAY, September 6th at Noon ET / 9am PT - <a href="https://t.co/UN1cNiJJrQ">https://t.co/UN1cNiJJrQ</a> <a href="https://t.co/20rlpL862S">pic.twitter.com/20rlpL862S</a></p>&mdash; All Elite Wrestling (@AEWrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEWrestling/status/1169340204357840896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yoooooooo<br><br>Why is his face so RED????? <a href="https://t.co/aKElxSzNq5">pic.twitter.com/aKElxSzNq5</a></p>&mdash; JE Snowden (@JESnowden) <a href="https://twitter.com/JESnowden/status/1169431749174185984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 5, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Chris Jericho: Possessed by the spirit of Brother Love?

Yeah, I misread the Showbuzz thing which had them in the orange (which I assume means between average and low). I assumed it was for that time slot, but I think it must just be for that position on the charts. Like, the show in #25 usually does more, or something.

Because I used a site that measures these things and read the chart? My bad. This one received a fair bit more promotion than the other one. I didn’t even realize it was on, and was optimistic about them at the time. That one getting 190k on WGN was whatever, but this one I know I was aware of. This one I knew about and I’ve largely zoned out of their stuff.

The Weather Channel got 900k in the same slot. And I hear all this stuff about TNT averaging 1.2 million or something in prime time. I had no clue the drop-off would be that immense for 10pm, so when I saw the orange I just assumed.

I’m predicting 82k domestic buys for All Out.

The Weather Channel during a hurricane is stiff competition.

I’m sure this has been talked about before but did they really have a 6 team mini-tournament in order to decide who gets a first round bye in another tournament?

So the team who won the first tournament had to wrestle two matches for the right to wrestle one less match.

It was pretty convoluted.

If I had to guess AEW probably didn't have enough teams available at the time to do an 8 team tournament and needed a quick storyline excuse for the bye.

Young Bucks and Lucha Bros would have given them 8 but Lucha Bros are not officially signed and also have AAA stuff to take care of. LAX gives them 8 now but at the time it wasn't guaranteed they'd sign with AEW.

Fuck yr mega thread.

1. Didn’t realize there was a hurricane. 2. Is it? Is everyone watching the weather during a storm? I don’t think that happens when we get disasters over here. And they affect specific regions.

Well, my prediction of 82k was a bit ambitious. Looks to have gotten 28k on PPV. They got about half their buys on B/R Live last time. 56k is not a good sign. Last time it went up 11%, but 62k domestic barely beats TNA’s best efforts and is below what ECW used to do, on average.

TNT should help, but there is less interest for this show than the last one. They can’t rest on them being not WWE forever.

Do you know how big America is? 900k isn't everyone.

Final domestic tally might still end up being close to what DoN generated since the Observer reported that B/R Live numbers were higher than at DoN and the show itself is estimated at having done around 100k overall.

All depends on how much those B/R gains offset traditional PPV losses. Same happened internationally with ITV buys being up but FITE buys being down for this event.

Also worth noting the potential of people splitting the cost on the show since BR Live allows streaming on two devices

That’s what screech and I have been doing for the $50 shows and I’d assume others are doing the dame

This baffles me. Major disasters get coverage everywhere and this particular storm is the second strongest hurricane on record and just sat on top of a country for 2-3 days and completely destroyed the northern half of it (The Bahamas). You may be the only person online who didn't know there was a hurricane.

And yeah a lot of people will be watching the weather channel. When you have storms like that that are threatening areas with tens of millions of people you tend to want to know if you need to run or not. We've gotten an evac order 3 out of the last 4 years, including for this storm. Pretty much the entire coast from Miami through North Carolina was ordered to evac. I was glued to the weather channel at that point to decide if I was going to try and fight the traffic or if maybe I would risk staying put. Stayed put this time, glad I did. Stayed just outside of the bad part of the storm.

We have our own natural disasters to worry about here. Still don’t know anyone who watches The Weather Channel. Do yanks really get their evac information from it? Jesus Christ, your country really is a mess.

To get 72k domestic buys there would need to be 44k B/R Live buys. That would be over a 20% increase.

100% this. AEW is quickly losing its shine.

I do not plan on spending $50 on any more PPVs from AEW unless they REALLY take off. When I can watch it for free weekly, the special attraction feel will be gone.

Plus, let's be honest, valuewise, WWE is $10, that is a far better deal.

I was on board with them (hell, I started this thread), but they’ve quickly lost me. I still want them to do well. Wrestling needs something else. I just don’t think it needs Anything Else Wrestling. It’s got too much PWG and feels nostalgic for really weird periods of time. Like early WCW and 99/00 WCW in how it breaks its own reality.

I’ve been worried it’s my cynicism getting in the way, but I watched some of the UK Takeover and loved it. I’m still a wrestling fan somewhere. I just hope this doesn’t ruin anyone else’s chances of getting a huge TV deal if people see this and think “this is a bit silly.”

That Walter/Tyler Bate match was brutality at its finest.

I’ve liked elements of what they’ve done as individuals (moreso WALTER than Bate), but I loved them together. WALTER chopping people always has a place in wrestling.

Between this and Cody/Jericho I'm more sold on Full Gear than I was All Out.

They’re putting on the matches they pulled from fans previously, which is nice. Still have no clue why they scrapped PAC/Page from DON.

Thought it was cause Pac threw a fit

He couldn’t lose, but so what? Apparently the plan was to put him over, anyway. He was supposed to lose to Omega, who is losing and lost to PAC anyway. Protecting Page seems like a weird prerogative too. Just do the match and then not use PAC until he drops the Dragon Gate Title.

It was bad booking. And no one wanted to call it such up front that early. But it was bad booking.

There were also supposedly visa issues going on around the same time causing the PAC situation to become even more of a mess.

Same issues also affected the OWE guys since AEW wanted either more of them to show up or have different tag partners for Cima.

Just getting around to watching All Out. First thing I noticed: Excalibur is so nervous when the camera is on him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">AEW TV in Nashville on 11/13 <a href="https://t.co/DM6UQj6OQ1">pic.twitter.com/DM6UQj6OQ1</a></p>&mdash; HeelByNature.com (@HeelByNatureYT) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeelByNatureYT/status/1171091232929566731?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That makes it look like Nyla Rose is teaming with Cody to take on Jeircho/Ambrose

Or just fighting Moxley one on one (Wrote Ambrose in previous post because temporarily forgot his name for some reason)

If they go with Nyla Rose as their first women's champion, it's gonna be really weird.

Why?

The "That's a Man!" Section.

A) It’s gonna be viewed as a publicity stunt. Probably rightfully so.

B) In the middle of a “women’s revolution” in wrestling, the idea that a biological male was the best choice to be their first women’s champion is an odd “progressive” statement to make. It’s great for trans women but also makes a bit of an odd progressive statement in a physical, albeit scripted, sport where a biological male would have a HUGE advantage over a biological female.

There’s a lot to unpack with the situation.

That being said, as I said earlier in the thread, if she goes full heel and basically just crushes the competition while telling them “I was born better” with a wink and a nod, it would be fucking awesome and whoever dethrones her would be made. 0% chance that happens though.

It is not like they are throwing a dress on one of their clownshoes talent like a la Santino Marella or Harvey Wgippleman and giving him the belt. There is a difference between "Joe-Ann" Janella as women's champion and Nyla Rose as such. One is a guy in a dress winning a belt to make fun of the idea of Transgender women and the other is Transgender.

Everything Fan said there is pretty accurate. Like it or not, athletics of any kind is the one area where being transgender has a very noticeable impact. There's a distinct reason why this is the most commonly discussed aspect of the transgender issue. People aren't blind to what's happening in a lot of competitions right now and the controversy over it is building fairly rapidly.

Men who transition to women have a distinct advantage over other women in competition at a base level. But if you decide that people have to compete as their birth sex, then a different issue arises. Women transitioning to men who are competing against other women would have a huge advantage from testosterone therapy. There are a lot of different issues here and no easy way to solve them.

Fans hypothetical scenario would also absolutely be the most incredible way to work this angle too. But he's also right that it will never happen. The optics and publicity if they did it would be BRUTAL and there is no way in hell they risk that, especially this early in the game. Imagine all the shit flinging about "AEW BLATANTLY SAYS MEN ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN!!!!!". Hoooooo boy.

I think it's pretty clear they're gonna crown Rose champ. And I'm guessing it's gonna be a squash.

Right. I’m not saying the idea is a joke ala a jobber in drag winning a women’s title. I’m speaking strictly about the idea that she would basically be using the physical advantage of being a biological male to top all women as the first women’s champion. And it’s odd that it would be looked at as this huge milestone for trans women while there’s this elephant in the room of “No shit, a trans woman beat the shit out of a bunch of biological women. She was born a fucking man.” Especially in this “women’s revolution” era.

I think that their long game is to crown her the first women's champion, obv make someone a star off of her, but then to have Nyla win one of the other championships to further validate her and the other women by proxy.

I know #fan isn’t being intentionally disrespectful or anything, and I understand the PR stunt perspective, but the whole “trans women are biologically male” take is quite out-dated, not scientific and not going to get airplay by too many outside the transphobes. Trans women are women.

It is going to be seen as a publicity stunt though, and it’s naive to think it’s not, because we don’t even know if Nyla is good yet. That being said, as far as PR stunts go, whatever. It’s promoting. They’re going after some goodwill from progressive audiences. It wouldn’t be an issue if she wasn’t the first.

I’m just wondering how this is any different from WWE’s treatment of women though. My biggest issue with them is lots of tell, not much show.

Well, it’s absolutely scientific. Trans women are biologically male and thus have an advantage physically. We can discuss whether it matters or not but if you’re gonna argue it’s “not scientific “, we’ve got a long way to go before we get there.

Noid pulling a Trump here

Biology is not the dichotomy people generalize it as and is far more complicated than male/female. It’s not just about what junk you have either. There is also how your brain is wired. We understand now that some people are born with “female” brains despite having what you’d call “male” anatomy. What you’re talking about is assigned sex. It’s a set of assumptions that I think you’ll find many (most?) in the scientific community steer clear of now.

It’s not just a gender vs. sex or feelings vs. science thing. We’re learning more about how complicated “biological” sex is all the time, and it’s not something that is perceived as a binary anymore.

That’s got nothing to do with the wrestling psychology aspect of it though. I honestly don’t think much about trans people in sport, because I don’t think much about sport. The smart people I know who are into that shit think it’s bullshit they are excluded or it’s assumed they have an advantage. Off the top of my head, it’s stuff like mentality and how they’ve trained their bodies to be more “womanly,” because of that struggle, so it’s not like a man straight ahead plowing forward. In some sports, the assumption that men have an advantage is often overblown too.

Not sure about wrestling, lol. Personally, I’d use the trans stuff to build up a heel for her to knock down. A bitch heel like a Scarlett Bordeaux could be a real piece of shit and protest her having the belt. No way they’d do that.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Transgender wrestler has “unfair advantage,” argues imbecile about rigged sport<a href="https://t.co/z4N3mZhIXs">https://t.co/z4N3mZhIXs</a></p>&mdash; Kayfabe News (@KayfabeNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/KayfabeNews/status/1168884051446554624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Riho beat her before though.

AEW also aren’t masturbating themselves about hiring a transwoman like WWE would be.

You are actually such a fucking idiot.

Honestly didn't think the fact that generally, biological males have a physical advantage over biological females would be a point of contention. Usually the "trans women should be able to compete in sports with women" crowd don't even use that as a reason.

Kinda distracts from my main point anyway which is that it's gonna be weird, in an era where wrestling is trying to hype female wrestling as on-par with male wrestling, a woman is likely to win their women's title because she was born a man. And it would be awesome if they factored it into the story but instead they'll be having to ignore the elephant in the room for the sake of not offending anyone and that's just gonna make it more weird.

And Noid, I could have sworn I've seen you discuss Cornette's issue with women not fighting men in wrestling and you sided with him, did you not? If you don't agree that there are physical advantages to being born a male then what would be the problem with men fighting women?

Joe Rogan had a good take on this. There was a transgender destroying women in mma. She lost eventually. But it's pretty daft to argue that a transgender woman, born with higher bone density, and testosterone, doesn't have a physical advantage. They absolutely do.

Lol, testosterone is overrated and isn’t what people think it is. And Joe Rogan doesn’t have a good take on anything.

You’re putting a lot of straw in that scarecrow. I don’t agree that men should beat up women, no. There are a whole bunch of social reasons I think that is a shitty thing to promote. Absolutely none of that has anything to do trans women wrestling women. Nice try. :p

Well, I’m not actually even talking about that. I’m just saying that it’s shitty to think of Nyla as a “biological male” and explained why. Don’t make me do your Google searches for you. And as I said, I know you weren’t deliberately being disrespectful. Most people probably don’t think on this stuff much. But the information is out there.

Transgenderism isn’t a case of a dude deciding he wants to be a she. Saying someone is “biologically male” makes a whole bunch of assumptions that you don’t know about her — her body, her bones, her chromosones, her brain. That’s all “biology.” I’m not even putting this isn’t a wrestling context. It’s just outmoded terminology. And that’s not “PC culture” or whatever. There is scientific information underlying all of this. I don’t think you’ll find too many people in the medical profession who will think of trans women as “formerly biologically male.”

In a wrestling context, I’d just compare it to Brian Lee always having an advantage over Kurt Angle. Right? Men shouldn’t fight women, and generally speaking there are assumptions you can make about size and “bone density.” But that’s not a given when you’re talking about specific freak athletes, especially ones with a trans background.

I’m not sure what Dale said, but I’m sure it was useless.

On a more interesting note, All Out buys were down about 20,000. Not great feedback.

Hot damn this is some of the utmost ignorant signaling I have ever laid eyes on. You could repost Noids takes here on social media and go viral off that shit show.

I don't think men should be able to hit women until after the surgery.

Hey guys can somebody tell me what level of woke this is?

Yes, signalling. Because I want #1-wwf-fan and Dastardly Dale to love me so much. And all the traffic these boards get. Do you think someone will notice me?

Do yourselves a favor and spend one shit researching this stuff. I’m just saying this shit is more complicated than “Nyla used to be a dude” and that saying “scientifically” is just not the right way to use that word. Scientifically speaking.

It’s been a while since I looked this up, but I know Planned Parenthood has easy to read articles on this, and I’m fairly certain the World Health Organization too.

Lol, not sure why you’re so angry about it, Seph. What an odd response to have. Is there a reason it bothers you so much?

If anyone has any scientific evidence to the contrary, I’m happy to read it.

You are making absolutely outrageous claims here. Testosterone isn't a big deal and people don't even know what it is. Suggesting that biological men having a distinct physical advantage over biological women is a myth. Then pretending like this is long decided science, providing no evidence and asking people to not make you google it for them.

Then you come here and ask for people to provide evidence of the contrary to you....

Are you kidding me right now? I'm not the least bit angry about it, just flabbergasted as to how someone could be so daft and condescending at the same time.

Noid, you are a walking-talking stereotype of the woke warriors that LITERALLY the rest of the world laughs at.

Men are stronger than women and it's not a social construct -- they just are. Thicker bone structure and testosterone. It doesn't mean men are superior to women. It just means on average, they're born with a stronger, faster, and more athletic makeup. There's no argument to make against that fact, unless you've been brainwashed in an inane social science class and don't have the capacity to produce your own thoughts.

To think it's a stretch, or even transphobic, to imply someone born a male has a physical strength advantage over those born females is beyond ignorant. It's not being said in a way to dehumanize someone, though that's clearly what you're implying because you're a shitty, judgemental piece of garbage.

TBH though I literally don't care if Nyla is the champ. I think it's fine. Wrestling being wrestling and all. But when it comes to something like MMA, I start worrying about the safety of other competitors.

And I don't hate Fan's idea about the storyline about Nyla's advantage. But my empathy/snowflake-side would feel bad that the only trans-representation in wrestling would be a psychopath using her "biological advantage" to win.

While we're on the topic of men not being inherently physically superior to women, can someone explain to me how a group of teenage boys from the Dallas Boys Academy high school managed to beat the US women's national soccer team (the current world champions) 5-0 in a game? Was that victory a social construct, Noid?

Absolutely right there are numerous cases recently that have come up where people who were born male and transitioned have been wiping the floor with female athletes and some of them claim to not have a distinct Advantage even though that's just not true. To pretend otherwise is crazy denial

I see that there’s a lot of posts after this that I’ll have to address tomorrow morning but I feel like I just got kicked through the Barbershop window. Damn.

I’ve never used the phrase “social construct.” You are literally making that up and doing some hard projecting. Gender is a social construct, but we’re not even talking gender, we’re talking “scientifically biologically male.” Scientifically she is a woman. My only gripe here is the word “scientifically.”

I’m not advocating for intergender wrestling. But trans women wrestling is not intergender. Trans women don’t necessarily have the same physical advantages as males generally might just because they were assigned male status at birth. Were they developed? Did they have abnormally low testosterone? Are they naturally small? Non-confrontational? Do they have other health issues or lingering injuries? You can cherry-pick anecdotes all you want. What about the trans girl who gets obliterated?

Trans women are women. Just because they used to be thought of as men doesn’t mean they used to be giant rough and tumble dudes who could definitely kick a woman fighter’s ass. Could they have been? Maybe. Maybe not though too.

I knew this would go down this route, but to go back to my original point: It’s not scientifically accurate to say that Nyla Rose was scientifically male. That might be good enough for some people, and it might even be good enough for her, but that’s just way too fixed a statement given what we know about transgenderism, the brain and sexual development in 2019. She may have always been a woman.

I know what #fan’s point was, and I don’t even disagree with it, it’s just that wording and the plastering of “scientifically” over complicated issues of identity and biology. And I don’t think it’s a semantic issue, because it leaves so much out. I know trans people who don’t celebrate their birthday because they are so distant from that association. They *weren’t* that person. Scientifically, they existed. Maybe the best way to explain it is alignment. There is no scientific guarantee that a trans person was aligned with their assigned sex, mentally, emotionally or physically. That’s all.

And it’s not outrageous to say what I said about testosterone. People use it euphemistically like it’s a power level. Drinking soy milk will not make you weak. Anything in the normal range for testosterone is fine.

Well, okay, but maybe I was lying about you. I do care. :kiss:

For the record I know you were not being a jerk or anything. And I know you don’t think you were, lol. I’m not about to start screaming about you being transphobic or anything. It’s just something I’ve had to learn about. You might think it’s a crock of shit and not important, but in my experience it is, and you’re a smart guy, so I didn’t think it was a waste of time either.

I really want to talk about this buyrate. I haven’t been thrilled with some of the philosophical decisions of AEW, but I didn’t expect the number to go down. Thought it would be up slightly.

Memeber that time Serena Williams, ranked 1st in the world (womens) played Karsten Baasch, ranked 203rd in the world (mens,) at the Australian open and he decimated her while openly drinking?


In hindsight her msistake was she didnt identify properly. Social constructs holding woman back.

Again with the social construct thing. I had no clue Karsten Baasch was trans.

Or Serena Williams, for that matter.

She hasn’t really had a chance, to be fair. I don’t like how she’s been booked. Too many multi-person matches.

What are the top 2 or 3 social reasons? If I’m straw-manning this shit, please feel free to correct me.

lol at the assertion we weren't talking about gender Noid. When we are talking about transGENDER people. Theres just so much to break down in that post up there, I don't even know where to start, really.

M2F transgender athletes are increasingly being crowned champions in multiple women's sports, including but not limited to: Weight lifting, track and field and cycling. Men who identify as female but are still biologically male are even being allowed to enter into women's competition at this point and are winning. Some of these athletes will be competing in the Olympics next year. But since men supposedly aren't physically superior on a base level we should see the same trend in the opposite direction, with F2M trans athletes doing well in mens sports. Shocker though, they aren't.

You keep going on about testosterone not being a big deal, but now with the caveat of it being in normal levels. News flash, biological males have a much higher normal amount of it than females do. It's one of the reasons why men have a physical advantage. And when a male transitions to female and that level of testosterone is brought down to normal levels for a female it does not remove the YEARS of physical benefits the higher level of T brought to them as a male. It is absolutely outrageous to claim what you are about testosterone, there is a very distinct reason it is so highly monitored in athletics. Because it is a power level and it's over 9000 whether you like it or not.

How someone feels, or identifies, or aligns at any given point in their life is a part of their gender, but it is not the only part. The physical biology matters. Someone can be born feeling female from day one but be biologically male and reap all the benefits from that. Identity may be an extremely complicated topic, but biology is not nearly so. To suggest Nyla Rose may have been a woman since birth is ridiculous. She wasn't. She was physically born a male. Facts don't care about your feelings or hers or anyone elses.

You come off as someone whos heart is absolutely in the right place but it's making you commit to some really strange arguments.

I wish there was a way to tell how many people streamed AEW by less than savory means. Still think it would be way more telling at this point. They are seriously pricing themselves out of a lot of people who would buy into it.

I think promoting violence between men and women is irresponsible since it’s supposed to be presented as a fight. I’m not saying most men don’t usually have a few pounds on most women or dismissing domestic violence as an issue. I am disputing that Nyla Rose used to “scientifically” be a man. You might have thought of her as one, but the issue is far more intricate than big, burly dude with angry brain becomes big-boned woman.

It’s just dicey to say that trans women used to be “scientifically” male. It’s way too much of a box and just a set of assumptions that science doesn’t make anymore just because someone had a Hogan instead of a Terry down there.

Well, to start, a lot of trans people are moving away from “transgender” as a label. It’s not that it is offensive, but some prefer transitioning away from gender or away from binaries altogether, and it doesn’t describe the biological stuff that is going on.

If we are talking gender, then it’s a false point to bring up her assigned sex anyway. If you’re talking about gender, drop the sex stuff, if you’re talking about sex, then her gender has got nothing to do with it.

Are they? It seems like every time a trans woman wins anything it’s major news. The list of famous trans athletes is relatively small. Are they cropping up at a consistent rate as other trans people, or is this a “vaccinations cause autism” type point. Maybe our diagnoses are getting better?

Trans women would hold a lot more records if they had a blanket advantage. A lot reduce their testosterone and take other hormonal supplements. Is being bigger and stronger going to help? Of course. No one is saying that, you’ve flown off the handle making up things. I’m saying that many trans women work hard to alter elements of their biology, which *can* negate certain advantages at certain times in certain sports.

Why do you think the Olympics are letting trans athletes compete? Think about it.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that trans women are being crowned champions in sport at a disproportionate rate to their success in business, music or even just their rate of transition? By that I mean is there an even split between trans men and trans women? If there were, say, more trans women than trans men, wouldn’t you expect there to be an outstanding number of trans women athletes comparatively? Also, there are trans men who achieve in the sporting field. I think your alarm is dramatic.

Lol, I brought up testosterone once and said that it “isn’t what people think it is.” You read into that because, like it or not, your argument is emotive. Are you really saying you are more qualified to comment on this more than the actual experts that, at worst (for my point), split on this? Until you have evidence to suggest that definitively that what you are saying is true, I’m going to call bullshit.

And...that’s not even the fucking point! I wasn’t talking about men in shoot sports allegedly taking all the cool spots, I’m talking about a woman worker, who, yes, should be making it look real, but is in a worked position. I’m fine with trans women in sports, but I’m fine if they addressed the “hysteria” too. Given how easily guys get their panties in a twist about it though, it’s obviously why they shouldn’t.

lol

Probably 20% less than last time. Interest seems lower across the board really consistently. The UK seems to be up, but everything in NA seems to be down 20% or so.

The price could be damaging, but I actually would pay $50 for wrestling if I knew I was going to love it. I just can’t philosophically go in on All Elite and some of their goofy WWE-style stuff.

Streamers gonna stream. I used to do it. I don't have to now so I don't.

If I had to guess, probably as high as 25% to a third of what All Out generated assuming it stays around 100k.

The percentage that watch illegal streams of WWE events is likely a lot lower mainly due to WWE working with a lot higher numbers on average for shows and the Network spiking those numbers.

She’s a trans woman. What did she transition from, a potato?

She was born with a Y chromosome and her body developed as a male. Even though you downplayed it, you admitted that there are generally differences between men and women physically. You acknowledge gender labels and then back off when it gets uncomfortable. I get you’re trying to be ultra safe and not offend with “labels” but when it prevents you from having an honest discussion, back up and find a middle ground.

I don’t know how her brain and body were working, so I don’t know. I don’t know why a potato would wish to transfer into being a human when they’ve already got it made.

Her brain or body may have always had “female” qualities. We just don’t know that much about her. Did her body develop as a male? Did her mind? She may have developed in some ways as a woman which has encouraged her “transition.” My point isn’t so much about labels as the complexities of identities — mental and physical — and how that shapes us.

Nyla might very well be like “Yeah, I used to be a dude.” And that is fine. It may or may not be true. When dealing with trans people and trans issues, it’s just way too hard to go back and talk about concrete black and white, especially since we’re learning more about how biological sex is much murkier than the binary we’ve always thought of it as.

Nothing about what you said struck me as offensive or anything. It’s just that word “scientifically.” It’s seriously just that word, because I think it makes too many assumptions about who Nyla used to be and how her shit worked. She was identified as male, maybe even identified herself as male, but I think it’s too rigid to say she was scientifically male. And frankly irrelevant (not that you were playing up it’s relevance as anything more than curiosity).

She may have been a male, sex-wise or gender-wise, but it might be murkier than that. That’s all I’m saying.

She was born a man. That is scientifically factual. Her body didn't have "female qualities". She was born a man. She grew up with the bone density and testosterone levels of a man. She's a woman now. But that does not reverse the 18-20 yrs she spent in life as a man, with a man's body and a man's genetic makeup.

Scientifically, Noid is a fucknut

Easily one of the weirdest arguments I've ever seen.

Prove it. Scientifically.

He just did. You can't be that much in denial. She was "scientifically" born a man. You are hung on the mental aspect of her transition which itself isn't scientifically proven.

Like everyone else I'm not sure how her transition went but I'm not against her being the AEW Women's World Championship eventually, I don't think they should lead with her though.

Saying something isn’t proving it. I like my science concrete and demonstrable. Some things about Nyla are concrete. We know she is trans. We know that she was assigned male sex at birth. But we don’t know her testosterone levels, how her chromosomes are like or how her brain developed. We just don’t. And to me it’s unimportant, and I think it is to #fan too, but I’m just saying that to categorically and declaratively state “Nyla Rose was scientifically a male” is a step too far with assuming the things we don’t know.

We know gender is constructed, right? But we’re also learning that a lot of biological stuff is more fluid than we thought too. I don’t think it’s scientifically correct to say that biological sex is a binary anymore. Some trans people do align their bodies to match their identified gender. This could very well be the case with Nyla. I just don’t think it’s fair to say that’s concrete since, like you just said, you don’t know. It’s too reductive to say that happens 100% of the time in 100% of cases.

If the wording was like something like “their first Women’s Champion was someone that was assigned male status” I’d be like “yeah, that’s true.” From what I know, she was. She’s probably lived male experiences. I don’t know that. I wasn’t there. I know she’s Native American, and some tribes have had “two-spirit” people. I’m not sure how she grew up and how her environmental development was. But we don’t have a complete phenotype, and even if she were phenotypically male and that were scientifically true, I don’t think it’s the right wording to say she was “scientifically” a male. That’s just too...unspecific and broad, even if I knew what #fan meant and it wasn’t offensive.

Like, a painting of a tree is scientifically “a tree.” Look at it, it’s a tree. It’s not the same thing as it being a conifer. Or it having actual roots in the ground. Or it also being made of paint. Or it being comprised of shapes. Or is it even a tree? Maybe it’s a painting of a photo of a tree? Maybe the artist did paint a tree and it’s supposed to be a tree and the artwork is called “Tree.” Whatever. That’s cool. But to see that painting, have no more information and to say “scientifically that is a tree.” Is it? It depends. It may be in how it is perceived and described by people, but it’s not botanically.

In this scenario, I’m not accusing #fan of trying to tell me that it’s a botanical tree. He’s just telling me that scientifically it’s a tree. And it might be. It probably is. I’m just saying that there is probably a better word than “scientifically.”

If #1-wwf-fan said that Nyla Rose was probably phenotypically male, I’d totally agree with that, with the caveat that I am still assuming and whatever. It’s just that concrete, blanket “scientifically.” #fan probably didn’t think twice about it, and I know the point he was making wasn’t shitty, so I actually didn’t want that to be the purpose of my post, it was just an added aside in a fun-spirited way — “I agree with everything but...” If I were peer-reviewing #fan’s work, I’d probably catch the wording and note it “awk.” But these are wrestling boards, so whatever. I’m actually pretty sure #fan wouldn’t use that word writing a hypothetical paper because it wasn’t part of his point.