And since his name was mentioned....if they let Bray go too that might just be enough for me to call it quits on WWE other than maybe the rumble and mania because they'll always have a special spot in my heart. But between Braun and Black (and potentially Bray) they are cutting some of the few guys I actually wanna watch. Bryan is gone too. Bo. A whole lot of guys with B names now that I think about it.

What does Vince have against the letter B?

Braun Stroman - Gone

Jinder Mahal - Still employed

Sounds like normal WWE to me

You have to have some serious power to be able to launch a chair like that perfectly without it it tilting from and destroying Romans face.

Keith Lee could be a star in any era with halfway decent booking. You’re really getting stuck in a mindset of letting WWE’s braindead booking dictate a guy’s worth. You should know better by now.

WHAT'S BRANK STRONGMAN DOING IN THE IMPACT ZONE?!?!

To piggyback on what others have said, Braun should have been a world champ like 2-3 times already. Summer of 2017 when he was trying to kill Roman Reigns and "I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!" was the battlecry of the fans was awesome. But, you know, Vince being Vince. Didn't want to capitalize on a good thing or jeopardize his darling Roman Reigns' status as "the guy".

That said, I do remember him sending out a tweet he had "5 million reasons why he's happy today" when he signed his new deal. I wonder how happy he is now. AEW seems obvious, but I ain't getting that vibe.

Aleister Black finally escaped. So does that mean Zelina's new deal is dead? Unless she hasn't signed yet. In that case, smart girl.

No surprise if Lana shows up at AEW. I would be surprised if she got out of the wrestling game altogether and finds a new career path.


Quite the interesting day.

Either Vince is truly gone, or there is some plan that involves sending AEW talent and either boost them or blatantly tank them so that Vince can come in a buy them. Maybe Vince thinks AEW will break the bank to sign all these guys and then go bankrupt and he can swoop in a buy them. Why wouldnt he think that btw? It happened with WCW.

Totally different.

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It's not really that much different. Khan = Turner, a richer billionaire trying to compete with Vince. WCW tried to keep bringing in older ex WWE talent as a boost, same thing AEW is doing. WCW and AEW both seem to let certain groups of rasslers control the booking and book themselves to go over and be at the top of the card all the time. WCW was also petty af and took shots at WWE live on air pretty frequently, another staple of AEW. They are very, very similar promotions.

The only difference is that WCW managed to overcome WWE for awhile; don't see that happening with AEW. Wrestling in general will lose too much popularity before they ever have that chance.

I don't see WWE ever buying AEW though. Vince would be better served to just let them tank eventually and then pick up the pieces after the fact.

Per Aleister Black on twitch, Zeina Vega did not get rehired by WWE. She just did some undisclosed work at the PC, and the internet doing what it does, jumped to conclusions.

I blame Slik

AEW also has always tried to imply they are WCW reborn. They often say things like "this is the first time WE have been on TNT since 2001" and things of that nature.

AEW is very much like WCW, and they even put out that narrative.

I forgot about this ppv already but interesting point

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Braun Strowman was literally in a WWE Title match on a PPV TWO WEEKS AGO.</p>&mdash; Wrestle Features (@WrestleFeatures) <a href="https://twitter.com/WrestleFeatures/status/1400123451634028552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

eh...I'll avoid the comparison talk until the day they put the belt on Marco Stunt to promote a B level wrestling movie.

I mean Jungle Boy is the number one contender for the world title right now. We aren't far off from Marco Stunt.

Jungle Boy getting a world title shot before Luchasaurus is insane. Just wanted to put that out there.

It's not insane because Jungle Boy is a great worker and Luchasaurus is sloppy as fuck.

That said Jungle Boy could definitely stand to hit the gym and bulk up a bit. But he at least looks like an athlete, unlike Stunt.

Just because he has a title shot doesn't mean he has a chance.

He'd be a legit TNT Champ if and when Miro moves onto the world title scene.

I think Luchasaurus would be way better if he stopped trying to be an "agile" big man. Because 90% of the time, whenever he does those moves it looks slow and choreographed. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it well.

Luchasaurus continuing to do this shit is just one example of why I'm convinced the older veterans don't actually critique and coach the younger guys and are just there for the payday.

Luchasaurus seemed really good for the first couple of months in AEW and was insanely over, then got injured and when he came back a few months later, seemed really immobile and slow and it seems like he has never recovered over a year later for some reason...

Any who

I'd like to see Braun in AEW but I think it's best if he tried transitioning into movies. There could probably be a place for him in a movie like Army of the Dead sequel. That or strong man competitions.

Maybe he can play softball like his old man

wonder what the cuts will be today, will they do nxt or continue with raw and smackdown?

I just can't believe Vince is selling off control. He's likely selling stocks off but not enough to lose his power. jmo

I'd be pissed the f off if I were Steph/Trip and to a lesser extent, Shane-o (who left and made bank).

Such compassion for someone who just lost their job. Truly remarkable. Only someone who’s ever held a job could relate to this.

People are way overplaying how good/over Braun was. From what I saw, his reactions were pretty tepid. He didn’t help business any and whatever was there was the “Not Roman” principle. You push him, you get Roman Reigns but with a dude who is even worse.

I was embarrassed to be watching when Braun was on 9/10 times. Good for people who enjoyed him, but this is not a bad release. And the whole “Lol, he was in a WWE Title match two weeks ago” people...yeah, and he fucked that up too, and now he’s finished. He’ll probably be back, but thank fuck he’s gone in the meantime.

Keith Lee is overrated as fuck. Outside him tackling smaller people, the dude is pretty average and he’s a bland promo.

We should all learn and aspire to be like this compassionate human being.

Things Noid and Buddy Murphy have in common:

1. Australian
2. Been dropped on their head a lot

Braun is awesome, once he got his groove they should have pushed him like they do Roman now. I hope he goes to AEW but he'd also get me back into NJPW if he worked there. If I was Tony I'd be opening up the wallet for Joe, Bryan and Braun. Lana will ruin Miro's gimmick I'd prefer they don't pick her up.

with mlw about to start on vice they might get some of the old wwe wrestlers. now dirtsheats claim nbc is waiting for the fox deal to end to buy wwe in 2024. i wonder if fox would sale there rights to leave early.

How does Ziggler survive these culls?

Peak Braun :(

Pretty sure getting non hardcore fans talking about WWE again is a good thing. I don't think there has been anyone who peaked interest since Braun's peak run. WWE went overboard with it and then killed him.

i am ready for zigler and his tag partner to be relaesed, zig can be with his brother and beer money can get back.

His reactions were pretty good for the modern era. If you compare it with the "glory days", sure his pops weren't as big as someone like The Godfather or Scotty 2 Hotty.

Part of it was definitely the "not Roman" thing, but a large part of it was also because he is a freaking huge guy who was being booked like a freaking huge monster. Not rocket science.

Agree about Keith Lee, though. I admit I've only seen him a handful of times though.... but nothing screamed star

I suppose they could then, but they would really have to overpay at that point.

They would have to not only purchase WWE, they would need to offer enough for Vince to give up the new TV contracts he could sign for Raw and Smackdown, as well. They would also need to cover the remaining $400 million on the Network deal.

I think the more likely option would be for them to sign new shorter deals for Raw and Smackdown (assuming Fox doesn't get in a bidding war for the rights) that would mirror the remaiming time in the WWE Network deal, with the option to buy in 2026.

Who knows by then though, it would really depend on how Peacock is doing at that point.

like the fox disney deal and the at&t warner deal it took 2 years. i see the peacock deal starting next year. then the 2 year holding pattern with vince running till the fox deal ends in 2024.

Pretty sure this didn’t happen en masse like people are suggesting. Where was the ratings spike? I’m not doubting anyone’s anecdotal experiences, but mine is that no one has given a shit about wrestling in years and years, and Braun did nothing to change that.

If the guy made a difference, Vince would have been the first to froth at the mouth and push the guy more consistently. But he couldn’t really work and he wasn’t that over.

To be fair, no one will make a difference again. Making differences isn't best for business.

Less we all forget WWE purposefully killed Brauns push because he showed up only 4 hours early before the show actually started instead of 6 hours early.

It was more important to WWE to teach Braun to show up 2 extra hours earlier than make more money or give the fans something entertaining.

Him winning the tag belts with that 12 year old kid literally took all the cool factor away from Braun

i guess no news is good news no one fired yet.

yeah..he shoulda won them with Brodie Jr. Fuck Nicholas!

I dunno if you are trolling. Vince killed Ryback. Ryback, the guy who was getting Attitude Era pops when it was deemed impossible. So yes, Vince will destroy people that are over.

Honestly, I don't care or know about the ratings. That is really weird to me. I don't go around looking at the ratings for the sports talk shows I watch or listen too. What I do know, in my universe, for a few months, people that don't typically post about WWE were making social media posts regarding Braun. These are the casual fans that get back into WWE when something amazing is happening like Daniel Bryans run. Braun was that.

Honestly, most casual fans probably just watch video clips of what they want to watch. I doubt any of them decided to watch a 3 hour show to see Braun for 15 minutes. I wouldn't.

Was that before or after singing and playing the giant stand up bass vs Elias? Feel like that was the point where it was like "yyyyeah ok, so he's just like everyone else now"

Remember when Ryback hit that clothesline in Punk with JR I’m commentary and the crowd went ape shit to the point that the hard cam was shaking? That was the moment to go all in on Ryback and see where it went. But nope. Not Vince.

Rubalcaba?

Ryback.

If only he had the name Rubalcaba, he would have been multiple time WWE Champ by now

I’m not trolling. Ryback wasn’t very good and wasn’t very over. Did he need to be booked to shit in 2013? No. But he wasn’t a fucking difference-maker outside one curiosity buy for Hell in a Cell. Then Survivor Series tanked.

You may not care about ratings and buys, but they are a good indicator as to whether or not your anecdotal experience is universal or not. It’s not.

It’s fine to like the guys. But all this talk of “Attitude era pops” is just ridiculous.

https://cultaholic.com/posts/report-...-going-forward

I was skeptical that more would be coming. Everyone reports that there are “more to come tomorrow” then they don’t come. But it would honestly be the best thing for the WWE as a talent-based company. You can’t stockpile talent. It would also be good for the industry writ large to have more seasoned guys out there working. Theoretically, it’d be good for guys to go elsewhere and develop too, but the wrestling in other places is pretty low-standard, so I’m not sure there are countless spots out there.

So you are trolling. Got it.

Yeah, because the person using actual metrics to back up what they’re saying is a troll, versus the guy who says “I don’t really care about things like evidence.”

I’m surprised Nakamura is still around. I guess he’s got the “Jinder Benefit” that he could appeal to a specific market.

Lol He was getting massively over and they snuffed it out ASAP. You brush off Hell in a Cell as just “curiosity” and then after he jobs and Cena enters the picture the next month you blame him. You’re not using metrics to back anything. You’re stating your narrative and then seeing how you can make the metrics work for you. “It was just curiosity” being your excuse for a bump being a pretty clear example.

And yes calling this...

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... an attitude era pop is not ridiculous. The fact that you can’t at least admit that is more pretty hard evidence that either you’re trolling or you’re dead set on skewing or just flat out ignoring any evidence that a guy you don’t like was making waves.

Anyone who can't admit Ryback was over in that time either wasn't watching or doesn't know what a hot crowd sounds like.

Also not that he'd go there, but Ryback would at least look more legit than 85% of the AEW roster.

The person in question has surface level knowledge of each pockets. I'd compare his opinion to that of a homeless person who's convinced himself that the world is ending.

Watching that video makes me angry lol

Howwwww did they mess that up!

Watched that video. Do you really consider that an Attitude era pop? You can see people not reacting at all. Did he get automated reactions by WWE standards at the time? Sure. But holy fuck is this place insane when it comes to overrating the appeal the guy had just because he was jacked and got people to sing along to “Feed me more!” Talk about fucking narratives.

I was watching far less when Braun was around. When I did, you could literally pick apart the individual “Rawrs!” from the crowd they were so isolated. Cold period? Sure. But let’s not pretend he melted the fucking ice. He was the drizzling shits designed to be in the Kane role, except like Kane, no one got over working with him, and he didn’t make them the money they were spending on him.

That’s why both guys have been released and why one, at least, has turned out to be a definitive nothing in the industry. You’re kicking water uphill by arguing anything otherwise. There’s no evidence either guy ever really mattered.

If referee Jason Ayers took his shirt off he’d look more legit than 85% of the AEW roster. It’s a shame Ryback needed people to project their own ideal charisma onto him.

Lol, remember when the dick cut a promo about The Secret? He fucking sucked. No instincts. Anything he had was paper thin and spurned on by the idea of potential, which actually wasn’t there.

Lol, I can’t believe I’m being called a troll because I’m pointing out that Ryback was a flop. Yes, if they had just pushed him harder we’d be in a golden era right now. We wouldn’t have needed that if they had just put Tom Magee over Bret Hart at WrestleMania though. And if only they had stuck with Nathan Jones instead of taking him out of that Mania tag with Taker.

These wrestlers are guilty pleasures. They weren’t money just because they made half the arena pop a couple of times and actually looked the part.

What this proves to me is that kayfabe isn’t dead, and people are so hungry for someone like Goldberg again that if you get anyone jacked, push them, people will love the shit out of them and defend them 7 years after their one PPV peak.

Wrath should have been a mega-star and beaten Goldberg at Starrcade ‘98, yo.

It's not even the last time they've bricked a layup lol

I’m pretty sure if we could go back and measure the decibels of that live crowd when he hit that clothesline you’d argue that you saw a ton of fans sneezing at the same time and that threw it off.

Now, we could discuss whether he had what it takes to keep it going in the long-run but if you can’t concede this then it’s kinda pointless.

Personally I didn’t rate Ryback all that highly but I can’t deny he was on the rise. Would he have been the next Hogan/Austin/Cena? Fuck knows. Because they derailed him before we could find out. The dude lost to Mark Henry at Mania. Pre-salmon jacket Mark Henry no less. This is the common thread with most of these releases. It’s not necessarily that they would have been the next guy to lead another “boom period”, it’s that there’s always, always something more left on the table.

That Vince/Creative didn’t “get” Aleister Black and couldn’t find something decent for him to do is insane. A dude that looks like that, who walks to the ring and kicks people’s faces off. You don’t even really need to try. There’s an almost never-ending list of guys that could be/could have been more than they were in WWE. They look back and laugh at WCW for letting go a “Stunning” Steve Austin. You think he even gets the chance to become “Stone Cold” in this era?

Lol, you’re starting at the conclusion you want and not moving past that while accusing people of doing the same. If we could measure the decibels of that reaction, I’m sure I would be saying “See?” It’s not that fucking hot, dude. It’s not a terrible reaction, but holy shit are people overplaying this. He was a big dude who got mildly over with squashed, then got a decent reaction in a segment with Vince McMahon, CM Punk and John Cena in front of a crowd that was hungry for almost anything else. And make no mistake about it — had they have gotten Ryback they would have wanted something else then too.

That he wouldn’t have been able to keep it going is kind of the whole point. There was a catchphrase, a look and a push to the guy. When he lost the push, the catchphrase and the look fell through too.

Of course he shouldn’t have lost to Mark Henry. But no, he wouldn’t have been Hogan/Austin/Cena, lol. All three of those guys could work. And no, they probably wouldn’t get Steve Austin in this environment. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who doesn’t get a chance is Steve Austin either.


Aleister Black has a decent look, but he’s pretty boring in the ring and on the mic. He does way too much indy stuff for a dude who is supposed to be a bad-ass. There’s no “oomph” there. People want him to be like a legit CM Punk or something, but he’s more like a Marty Jannetty to Punk’s Shawn Michaels. There’s nothing wrong with him, per se, but there was nothing wrong with Al Snow or Stevie Richards either.

TIL, I wanted Aleister Black to be like CM Punk.

It’s how over, you stupid fuckers. He was not Attitude era over, nor did he do much but increase the buys of a single PPV. Those are facts.

Fuck what I want. I’m starting at the conclusion that that pop was massive. Which seems clear. Because I have eyes and ears. You don’t want to acknowledge even that much. So any discussion past that is pointless because I think your conclusion leaves you unable to admit the obvious. It’s probably the same reason you find yourself needing to rationalize agreeing with xrod’s terrible takes because not doing so might hamper your conclusion. You can admit xrod’s point is stupid while not conceding that AEW doesn’t suck ass. Just like you can admit a crowd reaction was huge while not conceding that he doesn’t suck ass. In fact, it ultimately helps your case.

I don’t think you’re comfortable doing either of those things anymore and it leaves you untrustworthy of honest conversation. You have sadly become CyNick-esque.

The Ryback was over as fuck for brief moment in time. I remember it looking like he was going to get pushed into the US title scene while Miz was champ. Maybe it was IC. Regardless, that looked like the direction till Cena got hurt and Ryback was fast tracked to be fed to Punk. Which is dumb. This company had hot shot title runs for Sheamus, Swagger, Mahal etc. but didn’t just take a shot on a guy who was getting pops. Mind boggling.

Feel like Braun was much more of a "dropped ball" than The Ryback. Feel at points the fans were definitely way more into Braun than they ever were The Ryback.

Yes, WWE didn't do The Ryback any favours in getting him over, but also neither did The Ryback.

I have eyes and ears too. It wasn’t that big, dude. You can see bored people in front fucking row. Hardly anyone is “losing their minds” like you would see routinely through the Attitude era, which this is being compared to. It doesn’t “help” my case to be goaded into conceding an untrue point, based on your subjective interpretation of what’s in front of you, masquerading as objective fact.

It’s possible to have two different interpretations of a crowd reaction. You obviously think it is massive. I feel it is pretty cold and forced compared to genuinely hot reactions. Doesn’t make me fucking wrong because you can’t admit you have a bias like anyone. I can very easily say “If you think this is an Attitude era sized pop, there’s no use discussing further and all further points are moot, because it’s obviously not.”

You’re being as stubborn as you’re accusing others of being.

Lol, when it comes time for Vince McMahon to talk, you can hear a pin drop. Hot crowd, guys.

Scotty 2 Hotty outpopped The Ryback

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What are these rumors that Vince is looking to sell WWE? Wtf did I watch on Youtube? That can't be true......

Ryback was over with me, I’ll tell you that much.

I've read that too. Since they're more into "content creation" than rasslin at this point, it actually wouldn't shock me if a streaming service scooped them up. I don't know if it would be Peacock, but the network being there now could be a step toward that.

Feel like I've made that post before but it could have been a text message or a tweet. Fuck it. It's fine.

It’s also important to remember in jobbing out Ryback, it lead to the debut of Brad Maddox and the Shield. And I think we can all agree that that was overwhelmingly successful.

Especially Brad Maddox

I have a tough time believing that Vince would sell.

That kind of goes against everything people know about him.

He's a carny and carnies like money. He would sell.

Yeah but he’s also a huge control freak who likes things his way.

So I don’t know.

Ryback was buried because Punk cried about how terrible he was. Timing also kind of screwed him up because they were dead set on Rock vs Cena 2, so Punk was keeping the belt to drop Rock, so he could then drop it to Cena.

They also had him job at Wrestlemania then turned him heel, neither of which made much sense.

The Fuck did I do??? :rofl:

I agree with both of these. The reason I think he *could* sell is because he already "let go" of the network.

Of course it could all be bullshit, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Of course he did. That was an Attitude era pop.

Vince at least wants the option of a sale. Everything he’s done has been taking steps to ultimately becoming validated by it.

Ryback was as much a victim of bad timing as anything else. Vince was dead set on giving us to Rock vs. Cena 2 for the WWE Title. And nothing was going to stop him. Not CM Punk finding his groove as the top heel in the company. Not Cena get injured. And certainly NOT some guy getting over in the midcard.

The biggest problem for Vince at that time was, there was no one else who could have stepped into the role of Cena at that point. And, as over as the Ryback was, he wasn't mentally ready for that moment. In a year's time, he may have been. But they needed an opponent for Punk, and no one else was credible at that point (I think at the time I called it 'Cena Uber Alles' booking). So, they had to take the guy gunning for the mid card belt and get him ready to face the World Champion.

Then, they had to do this in a themed pay per view, which required it to be in a Hell in a Cell match. So, they had to show him lose, but in a way that didn't make him look weak. That leads to the next month, and with Cena thrown in the mix, as well. This is where the really bad timing REALLY comes into effect. They need a reason to make him lose in a ladder match and not look weak again. This time, they debut 3 guys to cost him the match. Those 3 guys just so happened to all be guys you could build a company around. So they have to look credible. How do you make them look credible? They have to beat people. Who did they beat more than anyone else? Ryback. What do you call a big world beater who can't beat the world? A loser. They would have been better off not putting him in that spot at al.

What messed Ryback up the most happened before even Hell in a Cell. They needed a big powerful man doing big powerful things. Ryback was the big powerful man. But he couldn't lift up Tensai. And that kind of made him look bad. Oddly enough, a not so big powerful man (which is a crazy way to describe a man who is 6'5" and 232 lbs.) did a big powerful thing that same night. One of them is getting trolled to retire endlessly. The other has been a mainstay in the company since then, he's not a top guy, either. However, Cesaro can and has been used in several roles and made them work.

Yes, we're all aware of your fascination with the leaked videos.