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Mr. Nerfect 07-11-2020 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5357666)
1.904 million

Tough situation for FOX, a few green spots below but at billion dollars over five years is probably looking like a poor financial investment!


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-cont...Jul-10-FRI.png
#1 in the demo in their time slot. Funny how no one talks about it, yet Tony Khan says that is all the rage except on Wednesdays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ (Post 5357693)
No, they're buying ad space to get their products in front of the millions of 18-49 year olds that live in the 80+ million households in the U.S. who have cable or satellite. Pretty sure advertisers have much better data and insight on their potential consumers in the U.S. and the most cost effective ways to reach them.

Most advertisers don't care about demographic diversity, they want to advertise to people who can and will buy their products right now. Data consistently shows that the ideal U.S. consumer to most advertisers is a white person between the ages 18 and 49.

It's not rocket science, you just have to choose to not be such an idiot who refuses to learn or understand it.
They're not getting millions of people watching AEW, period. Cut your shit. You've gone full delusional. They were averaging about 350k people in that demo on Wednesday. They're selling slots to Sensodyne, because the average age of the AEW fan is 45 and they've probably done further research to discover that they're not the most trendy specimens on Planet Earth. That's what their insight gives them.

And yes, I'm sure advertisers do get way more than Showbuzz charts. That's my fucking point, you zealot. That's why the whining from Jericho and Khan is so fucking hilarious. That's why I criticize people who take the numbers so literally, because they don't imply how those demos are further broken down and whether or not advertisers see value in them, whether due to stigma or market research.

Advertisers care about a lot of things. They care about making money RIGHT NOW (which might be why they'd choose the product with the larger global reach and more diverse audience from the start), but they also care about the growth and perception of their products, not only in the immediate sense, but also over time. Do you want to see your average AEW fan wearing your clothing label? Some businesses might say yes, and others might say no.

Maybe it's just because I'm an idiot, but me no able to think of ads aimed at different races. Me no understand telebision. All matter is 45 year old white men. Me need learn how to read Showbuzz chart. Showbuzz chart teach POWER LEVEL!

Damian Rey 2.0 07-11-2020 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat (Post 5357784)
Yes in general but for sports its more of a mixed bag. Like the NFL last season went up in ratings and I think they've been up ever since the post-Kaepernick kneeling controversy.

When WWE was pushing for new tv deals, they were selling themselves hard as being equivalent to sports in terms of being DVR proof and as a reliable live content provider. FOX bit big on that sales pitch which is why they started talking about using their sports properties to help promote Smackdown.

WWE not having an offseason unlike sports is actually hurting them more than helping since they don't get any real chance to rest and recharge their creative batteries.
Always felt like giving guys time off tv after a big angle or long run would them good creatively to reset. Still work them at house shows but let the people miss them for a bit. Obviously a bad time for that right now.

BigCrippyZ 07-12-2020 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5357819)
They're not getting millions of people watching AEW, period. Cut your shit. You've gone full delusional. They were averaging about 350k people in that demo on Wednesday. They're selling slots to Sensodyne, because the average age of the AEW fan is 45 and they've probably done further research to discover that they're not the most trendy specimens on Planet Earth. That's what their insight gives them.

And yes, I'm sure advertisers do get way more than Showbuzz charts. That's my fucking point, you zealot. That's why the whining from Jericho and Khan is so fucking hilarious. That's why I criticize people who take the numbers so literally, because they don't imply how those demos are further broken down and whether or not advertisers see value in them, whether due to stigma or market research.

Advertisers care about a lot of things. They care about making money RIGHT NOW (which might be why they'd choose the product with the larger global reach and more diverse audience from the start), but they also care about the growth and perception of their products, not only in the immediate sense, but also over time. Do you want to see your average AEW fan wearing your clothing label? Some businesses might say yes, and others might say no.
I never said that AEW was getting millions of viewers. Your question was if advertisers were "catering to 48 year olds who have cable", not if AEW advertisers exclusively were catering to 48 year olds, and I responded to your actual question. Advertisers want to try and reach the millions of 18-49 years olds in the 80+ million households who watch or may watch cable or satellite TV every week.

You do understand that the ads that run during Smackdown and Raw in the U.S. on Fox and USA are different and separate from the ads that are run on international broadcasts don't you? They don't get a discount for advertising on both U.S. and international broadcasters. The agreements and rates are completely separate. Whether a program or its producer has a larger global reach or a more diverse audience does nothing for advertisers who are advertising in the U.S.

Advertisers don't give a shit who among the general consuming public purchases their product, they only care that they purchase it. It's very simple. Who actually can and is most likely to purchase their product right now, and how they can get their product in front of those likely consumers, is all that matters. Those consumers are almost always a huge majority age 18-49, and white, for multiple reasons.

It's clear that you know absolutely jack shit about how media, entertainment, and advertising works in the U.S. It really seems like might be so stupid that it takes you multiple attempts just to tie your shoes.

xrodmuc316 07-12-2020 01:23 PM
I don't want to break down the math of how Nielsen ratings actually work again, so let's just take it at face value.

The difference of a .28 and .20 is 80,000 people.

These fuckers are going out of their way to be defensive and belittling people while bragging about 80,000 people.

If anybody thinks for one second that Advertisers care about an 80,000 person difference in the "demos" then they are simple minded.

You know what advertisers are looking for? The total number in that demo, as in are they getting a million, 2 million, etc.

280,000 is the same thing as 200,000 to advertisers, a bottom of the priority piece of shit investment.

Chris Jericho and Tony Khan can take that argument and stick it up each other's asses. 280,000 in the demo is a fucking joke to advertisers.

The fact that they are THIS butthurt over the total viewers that they continually have to "BUT MUH DEMOS" is why nobody will ever take them seriously in the business world. It's all a joke and embarrassing.

slik 07-12-2020 04:16 PM
Tony being whiny/petty makes me want NXT to beat them next week

Mr. Nerfect 07-12-2020 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5358053)
I don't want to break down the math of how Nielsen ratings actually work again, so let's just take it at face value.

The difference of a .28 and .20 is 80,000 people.

These fuckers are going out of their way to be defensive and belittling people while bragging about 80,000 people.

If anybody thinks for one second that Advertisers care about an 80,000 person difference in the "demos" then they are simple minded.

You know what advertisers are looking for? The total number in that demo, as in are they getting a million, 2 million, etc.

280,000 is the same thing as 200,000 to advertisers, a bottom of the priority piece of shit investment.

Chris Jericho and Tony Khan can take that argument and stick it up each other's asses. 280,000 in the demo is a fucking joke to advertisers.

The fact that they are THIS butthurt over the total viewers that they continually have to "BUT MUH DEMOS" is why nobody will ever take them seriously in the business world. It's all a joke and embarrassing.
Yep. :y:

And I can’t think of anything cooler than going on the internet and being a sore loser and making a fuss about the demos in the first place. It may come back to bite them, which would be hilarious.

Emperor Smeat 07-12-2020 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5358053)
I don't want to break down the math of how Nielsen ratings actually work again, so let's just take it at face value.

The difference of a .28 and .20 is 80,000 people.

These fuckers are going out of their way to be defensive and belittling people while bragging about 80,000 people.

If anybody thinks for one second that Advertisers care about an 80,000 person difference in the "demos" then they are simple minded.

You know what advertisers are looking for? The total number in that demo, as in are they getting a million, 2 million, etc.

280,000 is the same thing as 200,000 to advertisers, a bottom of the priority piece of shit investment.

Chris Jericho and Tony Khan can take that argument and stick it up each other's asses. 280,000 in the demo is a fucking joke to advertisers.

The fact that they are THIS butthurt over the total viewers that they continually have to "BUT MUH DEMOS" is why nobody will ever take them seriously in the business world. It's all a joke and embarrassing.
Only problem with your math is a 0.28 vs 0.20 is actually higher than a 80k difference since a tenth of a ratings point doesn't equal 10k viewers. Same for a 1.0 in overall ratings doesn't equal 1 million viewers nor has that been the case for a long time.

Just counting the live numbers since that is what advertisers care about more, AEW had a 100k advantage this week but half of all their viewers were in that key demo area. Meanwhile only around a third of all NXT viewers were in that same demo area. So while AEW had around 45k less total viewers, they would still be more appealing to advertisers compared to NXT since their audience share in that key demo is much higher.

Mr. Nerfect 07-12-2020 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat (Post 5358134)
Only problem with your math is a 0.28 vs 0.20 is actually higher than a 80k difference since a tenth of a ratings point doesn't equal 10k viewers. Same for a 1.0 in overall ratings doesn't equal 1 million viewers nor has that been the case for a long time.

Just counting the live numbers since that is what advertisers care about more, AEW had a 100k advantage this week but half of all their viewers were in that key demo area. Meanwhile only around a third of all NXT viewers were in that same demo area. So while AEW had around 45k less total viewers, they would still be more appealing to advertisers compared to NXT since their audience share in that key demo is much higher.
NXT's average in the demo was 262k. AEW's was 364k. So it wasn't ~80k. It was ~100k. :lol:

xrodmuc316 07-12-2020 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat (Post 5358134)
Only problem with your math is a 0.28 vs 0.20 is actually higher than a 80k difference since a tenth of a ratings point doesn't equal 10k viewers. Same for a 1.0 in overall ratings doesn't equal 1 million viewers nor has that been the case for a long time.

Just counting the live numbers since that is what advertisers care about more, AEW had a 100k advantage this week but half of all their viewers were in that key demo area. Meanwhile only around a third of all NXT viewers were in that same demo area. So while AEW had around 45k less total viewers, they would still be more appealing to advertisers compared to NXT since their audience share in that key demo is much higher.
You are correct, I did make sure to state I was just going to take the number at face value for arguments sake. Regardless though, bragging over such a small difference of a small number either way is lame. Advertisers aren't beating down the door for those numbers, and the whole argument of the demos being so great and important is a horrible argument when the number you are getting is so low.

Bad News Gertner 07-12-2020 10:05 PM
Noid just owning everybody in this thread

Emperor Smeat 07-12-2020 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5358169)
You are correct, I did make sure to state I was just going to take the number at face value for arguments sake. Regardless though, bragging over such a small difference of a small number either way is lame. Advertisers aren't beating down the door for those numbers, and the whole argument of the demos being so great and important is a horrible argument when the number you are getting is so low.
That's where the rankings add another wrinkle to the whole ratings discussion since despite both shows being lower than desired in viewership and NXT's recent win streak in viewership, AEW being a constantly higher ranked show is still more appealing to advertisers.

Like last week it was only around a 100k difference between both shows in terms of key demos but it made a huge difference in terms of rankings at #7 vs. #24. Plus for TNT, its been a goldmine for them in terms of weekly rankings since they usually struggled to rank well or even at all on Wednesdays prior to AEW's arrival.

NXT's main problem is while its been enjoying a recent surge in viewership popularity and wins, almost all of its real gains are coming from WWE's older viewership which isn't sustainable for long term growth. On the flip side, AEW shedding its older viewers in recent weeks now leaves it a lot more susceptible to viewership spikes depending on outside circumstances like big sporting events since their younger viewers have been a lot more volatile than NXT's younger viewers.

Mr. Nerfect 07-12-2020 11:44 PM
I wasn’t that impressed when I heard AEW was only beating NXT in the old key demo by 100k viewers, but then I heard that they were ranked 7th and 24th and placed all my money on red.

Haha, get the fuck out.

Emperor Smeat 07-12-2020 11:56 PM
Fine. I'm done bother talking about ratings for shows anymore since a bunch of twats here has made it a lot less fun or enjoyable to discuss in recent times.

You or anyone else want to stick with your antics in this thread, then be my guest since I no longer give a shit anymore.

BigCrippyZ 07-13-2020 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5358169)
You are correct, I did make sure to state I was just going to take the number at face value for arguments sake. Regardless though, bragging over such a small difference of a small number either way is lame. Advertisers aren't beating down the door for those numbers, and the whole argument of the demos being so great and important is a horrible argument when the number you are getting is so low.
I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

In today's market, that much difference in the key 18-49 demo, especially vs another program with a remotely similarly sized overall audience, regularly results in advertisers paying almost double or sometimes more for a spot. That means more $ for the broadcaster and more security (and sometimes $) for that program's producer.

Is that always smart for the advertiser? Maybe. Maybe not. The reality is however that they still regularly do it.

Mr. Nerfect 07-13-2020 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat (Post 5358188)
Fine. I'm done bother talking about ratings for shows anymore since a bunch of twats here has made it a lot less fun or enjoyable to discuss in recent times.

You or anyone else want to stick with your antics in this thread, then be my guest since I no longer give a shit anymore.
Stop being such a sook. You said something stupid. 7th and 24th were separated by 102k viewers this week. A lot of them probably people advertisers want nothing to do with, since wrestling fans are far from trend-setters, and you played it up like a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ (Post 5358194)
I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

In today's market, that much difference in the key 18-49 demo, especially vs another program with a remotely similarly sized overall audience, regularly results in advertisers paying almost double or sometimes more for a spot. That means more $ for the broadcaster and more security (and sometimes $) for that program's producer.

Is that always smart for the advertiser? Maybe. Maybe not. The reality is however that they still regularly do it.
I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

A lot of advertisers have gone digital, since cable is a dying medium. It's no longer the best way to reach people in these demographics. They also get a lot more information than a fucking chart from Showbuzz. They're interested in disposable income, spending habits and whether or not the people in that demo are going to fit their brand image.

Gertner went through the sponsors AEW is attracting. Sounds like a old, fat, white audience. Super-attractive to advertisers and sponsors, right? If you want to compare this to NXT, you've got a worldwide audience (far more established than AEW) and a PG rating, which makes them a lot more accessible. Mountain Dew sponsored the show last week, apparently, so they would have had a commercial broadcast all around the world that lives in perpetuity. Plus, NXT isn't taking anywhere near as much of that from USA's mouths as AEW is from TNT.

By the way, AEW has lost 59% of their fans in that demo since they started.

Stop trying, Cripz. This promotion keeps shooting itself in the foot and the honeymoon is over. More and more people are realizing that those who were saying "Whoa-oh" from the start were right, and you just can't deal with it because you're a zealot who is so obsessed with hating anything and everything WWE that anything else was going to be "such good shit" and your ability to reason on the subject was blocked. You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse and wrestling is worse off because people kept kissing vanity promotion ass.

Prove me fucking wrong.

BigCrippyZ 07-13-2020 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5358196)
Stop being such a sook. You said something stupid. 7th and 24th were separated by 102k viewers this week. A lot of them probably people advertisers want nothing to do with, since wrestling fans are far from trend-setters, and you played it up like a big deal.



I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

A lot of advertisers have gone digital, since cable is a dying medium. It's no longer the best way to reach people in these demographics. They also get a lot more information than a fucking chart from Showbuzz. They're interested in disposable income, spending habits and whether or not the people in that demo are going to fit their brand image.

Gertner went through the sponsors AEW is attracting. Sounds like a old, fat, white audience. Super-attractive to advertisers and sponsors, right? If you want to compare this to NXT, you've got a worldwide audience (far more established than AEW) and a PG rating, which makes them a lot more accessible. Mountain Dew sponsored the show last week, apparently, so they would have had a commercial broadcast all around the world that lives in perpetuity. Plus, NXT isn't taking anywhere near as much of that from USA's mouths as AEW is from TNT.

By the way, AEW has lost 59% of their fans in that demo since they started.

Stop trying, Cripz. This promotion keeps shooting itself in the foot and the honeymoon is over. More and more people are realizing that those who were saying "Whoa-oh" from the start were right, and you just can't deal with it because you're a zealot who is so obsessed with hating anything and everything WWE that anything else was going to be "such good shit" and your ability to reason on the subject was blocked. You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse and wrestling is worse off because people kept kissing vanity promotion ass.

Prove me fucking wrong.
This has nothing to do with AEW or WWE/NXT or even specific advertisers. This is just the realities of today's advertising rates. Just because advertisers are spending more on digital has nothing to do with how ad rates are calculated for TV, radio, etc. I help with these kinds of ad rate deals quite often, and I just did some more a couple months ago. If I could show you the underlying data and formulas advertisers and broadcasters use to determine ad rates without breaking privilege I would.

:lol: Also, a Mountain Dew sponsorship is not remotely the same thing as an ad buy. It has nothing to do with how much USA receives from advertisers nor how much WWE receives from USA. It'd be great if you could at least try to know the terminology and differences in what you're talking about.

Mr. Nerfect 07-13-2020 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ (Post 5358201)
This has nothing to do with AEW or WWE/NXT or even specific advertisers. This is just the realities of today's advertising rates. Just because advertisers are spending more on digital has nothing to do with how ad rates are calculated for TV, radio, etc. I help with these kinds of ad rate deals quite often, and I just did some more a couple months ago. If I could show you the underlying data and formulas advertisers and broadcasters use to determine ad rates without breaking privilege I would.

:lol: Also, a Mountain Dew sponsorship is not remotely the same thing as an ad buy. It has nothing to do with how much USA receives from advertisers nor how much WWE receives from USA. It'd be great if you could at least try to know the terminology and differences in what you're talking about.
Actually it does have everything to do with AEW and NXT -- that's what we're talking about. And unless you are going to suggest that there is a blanket rule for the rate networks sell ad rates at, dependent completely on one demo, determined by their placing on a Showbuzz chart with a difference of an estimated 80k being significant, with no other data, your work is still cut out for you.

There is so much more that goes into ad rates than a simple score in a demo.

Of course it's not the same as an ad buy. One is a sponsorship and the other is an ad buy, hahaha. I'm talking about the overall appeal of these programs to other businesses. Don't act like that is irrelevant. It's got everything to do with how effective the reach of NXT is versus AEW, which is the whole purpose of discussing this stuff. Nice smokescreen though.

Mr. Nerfect 07-13-2020 02:24 AM
It's going to be absolutely hilarious when NXT starts beating AEW in the demos.

xrodmuc316 07-13-2020 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ (Post 5358194)
I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense and it seems like you don't know the realities of what these numbers mean for revenues.

In today's market, that much difference in the key 18-49 demo, especially vs another program with a remotely similarly sized overall audience, regularly results in advertisers paying almost double or sometimes more for a spot. That means more $ for the broadcaster and more security (and sometimes $) for that program's producer.

Is that always smart for the advertiser? Maybe. Maybe not. The reality is however that they still regularly do it.
It's not though. Dynamite doesn't have any major advertisers. Even after including an actual Cracker Barrel barrel on their show in a gimmick match, I still can't remember there being a Cracker Barrel commercial airing during an episode of Dynamite.

Mr. Nerfect 07-13-2020 08:52 PM
I’ve spoken to advertisers who are fans and defenders of AEW, and they have never made the assertion that a difference in 100k viewers in the 18-49 demo doubles your ad revenue. Implicit in this assertion is that since AEW launched in 2019, they have had their ad revenue halved twice. What a load of shit.

Imagine going ga-ga over being 7th in the demo and “this being a business” when you’re making a quarter of what you did in ad revenue from mere months ago.

slik 07-14-2020 04:21 PM
1.561 million

All-time low for RAW


https://i.postimg.cc/KckBpY5P/raw.png

slik 07-14-2020 04:23 PM
On the positive, 3 of the top 6 in demos

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-14-2020 04:28 PM
I think this is the worst thread in all of TPWW.

drave 07-14-2020 04:39 PM
In all or just key TPWW demo's though Dave?


IT FUCKING MATTERS

Jordan 07-14-2020 04:40 PM
All time as in since 93 or since it went 3 hours?

slik 07-14-2020 04:43 PM
I always wonder what they did in the early/mid 90s -- IDK -- The news sites are indicating this is the lowest

slik 07-14-2020 04:44 PM
I think next week they'll get a bump from post THE HORROR SHOW EXTREME RULES

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-14-2020 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drave (Post 5358647)
In all or just key TPWW demo's though Dave?


IT FUCKING MATTERS
Dale's aged 33-33 fucking hate this thread.

Volare 07-14-2020 04:59 PM
I like how everyone comes together here.

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-14-2020 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volare (Post 5358653)
I like how everyone comes together here.
lol just to argue about ratings, which is so fucking stupid lol.

Mr. Nerfect 07-14-2020 07:07 PM
I wonder if Vince McMahon will get on Twitter and whinge about how no one talks about the demos on Monday?

slik 07-14-2020 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X (Post 5358648)
All time as in since 93 or since it went 3 hours?
I saw a post on Dave's board that said the lowest of all time ever is 1.5 million on 12/23/96, main-event was Bret Hart vs Fake Razor Ramon.

xrodmuc316 07-14-2020 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One (Post 5358646)
I think this is the worst thread in all of TPWW.
I would agree with you, BUT LOOK AT THOSE DEMOS RAW IS THE GREATEST!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

erickman 07-14-2020 07:52 PM
did they lose to 1st run shows or summer reruns

DrA 07-14-2020 08:22 PM
Fuck it all

Maluco 07-14-2020 08:27 PM
It’s been too shit for way too long. This is the new reality for them. Only the hardcores now.

#1-norm-fan 07-14-2020 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5358674)
I wonder if Vince McMahon will get on Twitter and whinge about how no one talks about the demos on Monday?
Well, he got beaten pretty badly in the demos so that would be a weird thing to do.

xrodmuc316 07-14-2020 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5358727)
Well, he got beaten pretty badly in the demos so that would be a weird thing to do.
He got 1.75 times the demo amount with Raw than what Tony Khan and Chris Jericho brag about every Thursday...

So yeah, it's kind of weird, I agree.

#1-norm-fan 07-14-2020 11:39 PM
YUP!

Failures all around!

#1-norm-fan 07-15-2020 12:03 AM
Listen, WWE got a 40 year head start and the best they can do with their flagship show is claim a 1.75 demo victory over a company that headlines its shows with a dude who wrestles with his hands in his pockets for laughs.

It was a fine try. Wrestling is dead. Let’s stop arguing about whose shit stinks less and remember wrestling for what it used to be.

Good

slik 07-15-2020 12:15 AM
yeah it might go the way of roller derby if this trend continues where it goes from being a niche thing to an ultra-niche thing.

In some ways today UFC books pro wrestling better than pro wrestling and if someone is in high school would it be cooler to talk about ufc or wwe/aew?

Mr. Nerfect 07-15-2020 07:36 AM
Yep, wrestling sucks and it’s only getting worse.

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-15-2020 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5358736)
Listen, WWE got a 40 year head start and the best they can do with their flagship show is claim a 1.75 demo victory over a company that headlines its shows with a dude who wrestles with his hands in his pockets for laughs.

It was a fine try. Wrestling is dead. Let’s stop arguing about whose shit stinks less and remember wrestling for what it used to be.

Good
thank you

Jordan 07-15-2020 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5358738)
yeah it might go the way of roller derby if this trend continues where it goes from being a niche thing to an ultra-niche thing.

In some ways today UFC books pro wrestling better than pro wrestling and if someone is in high school would it be cooler to talk about ufc or wwe/aew?
Roller Derby a very apt comparison. Very interesting times. WWE has old PPVs airing regularly it seems on FS1. I saw a few years old Survivor Series on last night. Plus the Peacock deal with 100 WWE hours available. They are going to make money for a long long time but the buisness that we ALL love is certainly like a covid patient at an overcrowded hospital in Florida. It needs a ventilator but at this point it doesn't matter, it's dead anyway.

drave 07-15-2020 11:01 AM
Can't wait for all these specific channel streaming services to die a shit death like they need to.

Bad News Gertner 07-15-2020 12:00 PM
Wow, this weeks line up looks like a 4th straight win for NXT!

xrodmuc316 07-15-2020 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5358736)
Listen, WWE got a 40 year head start and the best they can do with their flagship show is claim a 1.75 demo victory over a company that headlines its shows with a dude who wrestles with his hands in his pockets for laughs.

It was a fine try. Wrestling is dead. Let’s stop arguing about whose shit stinks less and remember wrestling for what it used to be.

Good
Is that what I actually said? NO, I said it would be weird for Vince to brag about the demos. Which makes it even weirder that they do it for AEW.

#1-norm-fan 07-15-2020 03:29 PM
No. That’s what I actually said. I didn’t even quote you. Not everything is about you, fuckface.

drave 07-15-2020 03:35 PM
That post brought to you by


https://forgottenadvertisements.file...n-slim-jim.jpg

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-15-2020 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5358841)
No. That’s what I actually said. I didn’t even quote you. Not everything is about you, fuckface.
Xrod is TPWW's resident weener-boy, so I support this message.

Mr. Nerfect 07-15-2020 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5358820)
Is that what I actually said? NO, I said it would be weird for Vince to brag about the demos. Which makes it even weirder that they do it for AEW.
WWE is embarrassed when they drop below 2 million viewers and slip from first place in the demo. Tony Khan celebrates if he gets 700k viewers and cracks the top ten best dressed.

Mr. Nerfect 07-15-2020 06:17 PM
https://www.cagesideseats.com/2020/7...we-ratings-war

Trouble in paradise.

Mr. Nerfect 07-15-2020 06:17 PM
A better show is Kenny Omega vs. Marko Stunt, Cody vs. Sonny Kiss and Brandi Rhodes in action, by the way.

LolAEW

xrodmuc316 07-15-2020 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan (Post 5358841)
No. That’s what I actually said. I didn’t even quote you. Not everything is about you, fuckface.
Why are you unable to discuss/debate without resorting to name calling?

No, it doesn't hurt my feelings or offend me, but I would rather have actual discussions about wrestling on a wrestling discussion board than ending discussions abruptly because I don't have anything to add to this.

#1-norm-fan 07-16-2020 10:15 AM
Nah. You got offended because you took a post that had nothing to do with you as a personal attack. Likely because you’re used to your posts being ridiculed. Dale may be right about you being a “weener-boy” (his words, not mine!)

Now you just apologize for trying to get all snippy and then we can discuss/debate how bad WWE and all the wrestling has become.

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-16-2020 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5358903)
Why are you unable to discuss/debate without resorting to name calling?

No, it doesn't hurt my feelings or offend me, but I would rather have actual discussions about wrestling on a wrestling discussion board than ending discussions abruptly because I don't have anything to add to this.
All I'm reading is "blah blah blah, I'm a weener-boy."

slik 07-16-2020 04:18 PM
Big bounce back for AEW this week, landing in the top five. Not a bad week for NXT either.

Congrats to BOTH.

AEW- 788k
NXT - 631k


https://i.postimg.cc/KjvVfrbr/Final-...Jul-15-WED.png

Volare 07-16-2020 04:23 PM
https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...d8&oe=5F35F088

slik 07-16-2020 04:23 PM
If you combine them about 140k less than RAW and .6 away from tying it in the infamous demo

Triple A 07-16-2020 04:28 PM
Had a feeling NXT was going to do bad since they barely announced anything for the show ahead of time

slik 07-16-2020 04:30 PM
Yikes at NXT Males 12-34 being .02

That seems 'too low' to me, like something was off in factoring it. I'd be shocked if that really is .02.

If it is, aye carumba

#1-norm-fan 07-16-2020 05:05 PM
Welp. Good run, NXT!

Mr. Nerfect 07-16-2020 05:38 PM
Terrible rating for NXT. Terrible rating for Wednesday night, really. Total number of people dropping, not growing. NXT can always bolster itself up. AEW can only do so much. 800k people seeing that program on Wednesday might not have been a good thing.

The goodwill to AEW will continue to erode over time. NXT will probably just keep chugging along putting out the more consistent product. If they need to bolster it, they will. AEW is likely not getting a big name. Vickie Guerrero ain't going to cut it.

#1-norm-fan 07-16-2020 06:00 PM
Cool that AEW went up though, right? Cage vs Moxley being a serious main event probably helped!

erickman 07-16-2020 09:45 PM
yeah i figured the nascar allstar race would take people away

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-16-2020 11:00 PM
now that aew has won, i like this thread again.

#1-norm-fan 07-17-2020 12:12 AM
It’s a war that harkens back to the good old days. And AEW seems to be winning. Will it last? WHO KNOWS?

Damian Rey 2.0 07-17-2020 12:32 AM
I only care to the point that AEW stays on tv because I mostly enjoy it and I wanna see what they can do. I certainly wouldn't want them to die out after a year on tv. That'd suck balls.

Mr. Nerfect 07-17-2020 03:49 AM
It’s not likely to last. It’s hardcore fan goodwill/pity with the final fumes of fans trying to give a shit about something. It’s not making any new fans and drives people away at about the same rate as WWE. Because it’s as bad as WWE. Jericho got slimed this week.

Mr. Nerfect 07-17-2020 05:43 AM
The ultimate loser is wrestling. There isn’t more interest being generated, and what is left is just being split further and further. AEW is likely to add another show. Vince is going to keep on making his billions in revenue. Nothing is going to change.

slik 07-18-2020 11:13 AM
1.893 million this week for SD, to once again top the chart in wrestling


https://i.postimg.cc/kgRZkQwF/Final-...Jul-17-FRI.png

slik 07-18-2020 11:18 AM
Here's how the big 4 shows did this week in live viewers


SD - 1.893 million
RAW - 1.561 million
AEW- 788k
NXT - 631k

slik 07-18-2020 12:41 PM
Sometimes I wonder if FOX realizes that Vince carnied them big-time. So many of the people who were all over promo material for SD on FOX aren't on the show. Ronda, Brock, Becky, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, Cena, Charlotte were all over advertising for the show. I remember all the news sites talking about how Ronda and Brock were a big part of the selling point of SD to FOX.

The only people I think who are on SD now that were part of the promo push in commercials are Kofi and DBry.

Mr. Nerfect 07-18-2020 07:13 PM
Haha, I used to make a big deal about that. The WWE can send talent over to that show any time they want. If FOX wanted Rey Mysterio, Brock Lesnar or Charlotte (the only active talent in that promotional material you listed) on the show, they could have them. I doubt FOX really knows who any of the talent actually is. It's also possible that the WWE put those advertising packets together themselves. Yeah, it's fucking silly of them to promote people that aren't going to be on the show, but the whole thing with them is promoting the brand. You get WWE -- which includes stars like, yadda, yadda, yadda.

FOX knows what they got when they signed a deal to air Vince McMahon programming on their network. It's crazy to me that people think FOX must be sitting there, spitting in a rage while TNT is over the moon ecstatic with AEW and their shitty programming.

Tied for #1 in the demos again, I see. Funny how that doesn't come up when it's not Wednesday. I fucking hate defending WWE, but some of the fan perspectives on them is, frankly, markish.

If FOX was like "Hey Vince, we're going to cancel ya," Brock Lesnar and Rey Mysterio would be on there tomorrow, not that I'm sure the person making that call has any idea who they are.

slik 07-21-2020 04:34 PM
WWE RAW went up 67k viewers this week

1.628 million viewers

https://i.postimg.cc/50dLBgMj/raw.png

slik 07-21-2020 04:52 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Orton vs Show did a 0.42 18-49 in Q3. That is staggeringly bad when put into perspective. Worst quarter performance in 27+ year history of the show for a bout promoted for weeks.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1285670132732301313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

xrodmuc316 07-21-2020 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5360681)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Orton vs Show did a 0.42 18-49 in Q3. That is staggeringly bad when put into perspective. Worst quarter performance in 27+ year history of the show for a bout promoted for weeks.</p>&mdash; Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) <a href="https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1285670132732301313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
"That is historically bad!"

"Also, more than AEW gets, but YAY AEW DEMO KINGS!"

And this is why I laugh when this dude acts like he is a serious journalist.

slik 07-22-2020 12:03 AM
If I was USA Network and were paying 44 million a year for NXT and 230 million a year for RAW and it was doing just barely double what NXT does, I'd be thinking about seeing if I could re-negotiate out of my current deal to pay a better price for RAW

slik 07-22-2020 12:04 AM
The next two weeks are going to be really bad for RAW, AEW, NXT and SD.

MLB, NBA, etc are going to do a number on all wrestling ratings across the board

xrodmuc316 07-22-2020 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5360762)
If I was USA Network and were paying 44 million a year for NXT and 230 million a year for RAW and it was doing just barely double what NXT does, I'd be thinking about seeing if I could re-negotiate out of my current deal to pay a better price for RAW
I think they are paying WWE about the same amount now that they were paying last year for Raw and Smackdown. Not a complete apples to apples comparison, but they are still getting 5 hours of WWE produced television for roughly the same amount of money.

Evil Vito 07-22-2020 07:06 AM
I for one am shocked that people don't want to see Big Show wrestling in 2020.

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-22-2020 08:29 AM
I'm sure they aren't cursing the name of WWE, but if you think USA or Fox are happy with those ratings, you're probably a dumb twat.

(re: Noid and XRod)

xrodmuc316 07-22-2020 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One (Post 5360804)
I'm sure they aren't cursing the name of WWE, but if you think USA or Fox are happy with those ratings, you're probably a dumb twat.

(re: Noid and XRod)
Never said they were happy with the ratings, nice try though.

Mr. Nerfect 07-23-2020 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5360762)
If I was USA Network and were paying 44 million a year for NXT and 230 million a year for RAW and it was doing just barely double what NXT does, I'd be thinking about seeing if I could re-negotiate out of my current deal to pay a better price for RAW
That double is so much more exposure. I hear a bunch of AEW drones talk about how TNT is paying chips for Dynamite and it reaches 700k people. It's a much, much, much wider net to cast with 1.6 million or whatever.

If the WWE got good somehow, and every fan told three people about how good WWE is and just 10% of them were converted, that is an additional 480k fans. If AEW did the same thing, you still wouldn't get over the 1 million mark.

When you get to that much exposure, it's just unparalleled, which is what you're paying for if you are an advertiser. People keep the same ratio when you're talking about a show with the audience of a Dynamite versus one wit the scope of Raw's.

And 0.41 is basically twice what AEW does most weeks, so there's fucking that.

drave 07-23-2020 07:56 AM
https://i.imgflip.com/495tgk.jpg

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-23-2020 08:21 AM
I like Dave Meltzer for his passion and knowledge. But this "MUH DEMOS" shit has soured me so much on him. Sure, ratings are important to wrestling, but Jesus Christ, talk about taking the fun out of literally everything.

We have two companies fighting for the smallest piece of the pie imaginable, getting fucking hideously bad ratings. It's not even worth this thread, no matter how many 18-49-year-olds watch AEW or NXT.

Ol Dirty Dastard 07-23-2020 08:23 AM
In AEW's defense, they don't have generations of brand recognition to bolster them. WWE has every fucking advantage...such as amazing advertisers and the fact that they've been the only game in town for 2 decades. And their ratings are still the drizzling shits.

Seriously, as bad as AEW's ratings are, they just need a BIT of traction (lord knows they won't get it) and they'll be threatening RAW. It's fucking pathetic.

slik 07-23-2020 04:10 PM
Good jump for AEW this week

AEW - 845k
NXT - 615k


https://i.postimg.cc/fRnZtTdn/Final-...Jul-22-WED.png

slik 07-23-2020 04:21 PM
Add both together and they are only 168k away from RAW

xrodmuc316 07-23-2020 04:36 PM
William Regal's tried and true formula of announcing a tournament didn't bring in big numbers??? Shocker!

Bad News Gertner 07-23-2020 05:11 PM
Baseball is really going to hurt ratings for both sides going forward

erickman 07-23-2020 06:59 PM
basketball too

slik 07-23-2020 07:40 PM
Yeah, I have a feeling real sports is about to crater RAW, SD, Dynamite and NXT

xrodmuc316 07-23-2020 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5361218)
Yeah, I have a feeling real sports is about to crater RAW, SD, Dynamite and NXT
I honestly don't know. We kind of all assumed wrestling was gonna capitalize on being the only live thing going, but the no crowd absolutely killed the non hardcore audience's interest.

I am wondering if sports are going to suffer the same fate.

Baseball isn't too dependant on the crowd, but basketball will be weird as hell all quiet hearing the shoes squeaking.

Damian Rey 2.0 07-23-2020 11:26 PM
I don't think sports will have much of an issue. Baseball's built in audience is larger than wrestling, and fans have been thirsty for games. Tonight's Yankees v Nationals and Dodgers v Giants games should be a decent indicator of what we can expect.

I think pro sports is gonna crush wrestling. Especially the mid week shows.

xrodmuc316 07-23-2020 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 (Post 5361272)
I don't think sports will have much of an issue. Baseball's built in audience is larger than wrestling, and fans have been thirsty for games. Tonight's Yankees v Nationals and Dodgers v Giants games should be a decent indicator of what we can expect.

I think pro sports is gonna crush wrestling. Especially the mid week shows.
Even though personally I find basketball much more entertaining, baseball won't be too odd without fans the way basketball will be.

Maybe they can pump in fan noise for the basketball games.

Mr. Nerfect 07-24-2020 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5361187)
Add both together and they are only 168k away from RAW
That's really sad, haha.

xrodmuc316 07-24-2020 07:49 PM
"GUYS OH MUH GAWD DYNAMITE HAD OVER 1 MILLION VIEWERS FOR 5 WHOLE MINUTES, SUCH A HUGE NUMBER!" ~ Dave Meltzer

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDynamite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDynamite</a> was over a million total viewers for the final 5 minutes of the <a href="https://twitter.com/youngbucks?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@youngbucks</a> v. Butcher &amp; Blade Falls Count Anywhere match, from 8:55pm ET to 9pm ET with 1,018,000 viewers total and 502,000 in the key 18-49 year old demographic! Thank you to everyone who watched!</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1286768978619179009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

"YAY THANK YOU ALL FOR WATCHING OUR SHOW FOR FIVE MINUTES, WE ARE THE BEST!" ~ Tony Khan

#1-norm-fan 07-24-2020 08:16 PM
Lol So angry

Supreme Olajuwon 07-24-2020 08:25 PM
Do we know which episode of Guy’s Grocery Games was on? It’s still good but the energy seems different since Carl the Cuban died.


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