Haha, I call Orange Cassidy David Arquette based on the lack of credibility and their general presence, but it turns out that they actually do have the exact same height and weight according to Google (5’10, 161lbs).

So you actually watch Smackdown weekly?

Not via online, clips, or abridged version but in its entirely each and every week because if so, that being the best main roster show is the biggest load of horse shirt.

Lol, that doesn’t make any sense. Stick to lifting your arguments from Dave Meltzer. You get lost when you have to come up with shit on your own.

I don’t watch Dynamite regularly and I don’t watch SmackDown regularly. I can still judge which is more successful and which product is better when I do watch. SmackDown breaks the reality of itself too, but at least not in main event segments. The highs are higher and the lows aren’t as low.

So no then.

Any show will look better when you cherry pick things to fit your view or criteria.

Comparing just RAW and SD, only real advantage SD has had over RAW is it being an hour shorter. Quality-wise, its been just as bad and at times even worse than RAW has been in general. At least RAW was more willing to experiment with new people even if it ended up being very hit-or-miss which is more than what can be said of SD's efforts under Prichard.

SmackDown seems absolutely abysmal and unwatchable based on results for like the past several months...

Been like that almost since the switch to FOX.

Debut show was loaded but did a terrible job giving a good reason to watch the actual regular weekly stuff.

At least when SD moved to USA Network and later became a live show, WWE actually bothered putting in some real effort to improve the show's quality for months before slowly going back to their old ways.

With FOX, they basically scammed the network into giving them a huge sum of money for a show they never had any real intentions of improving. Even worse is they managed to double scam FOX in terms of not giving them the big stars they wanted and getting even more programming that also had no real effort put into it.

LOL you all are too much. Smackdown is abysmal but a C level tag team showing up in a minivan is great television?

Funny don't draw money

Gotcha! You don’t fit my arbitrary paradigm therefore I win! Bullshit. Dynamite is borderline unwatchable. SmackDown is largely turgid, but I can get through a Daniel Bryan vs. Drew Gulak match. Nothing on AEW is that good. Nothing.

The Raw guys are all bums, sadly. I like what I’ve seen of Angel Garza. Everyone else is pretty shit, unless I’m missing someone obvious.

Yes, Vince McMahon scammed FOX. Because in five years he’s going to want FOX feeling cheated by him when he asks for more money. What sort of take is this, BigCrippyZ?

FOX knows what they paid for. Vince McMahon’s WWE on their network. I’m willing to bet they don’t even know who most of the wrestlers are. But yes, they are very mad they didn’t get Andrade. Grr, that Vincent Kennedy McMahon swindled us again!

SmackDown succeeds at what it wants to be. That it doesn’t appeal to people who lose their shit at Trent showing up in his mom’s car or Orange Cassidy comedically punching Chris Jericho through a table is probably not a bad thing.

AEW scammed everyone by saying they were going to change the world and offer a sports-based presentation. That one is actually true.

Absolutely! WWE doesn’t mean anything anymore. AEW creates new stars like Chuck Taylor and The Dark Order. So good to see talent being used to their fullest potential.

Wasn't just Andrade that FOX wanted since they also wanted Brock Lesnar (barely for a month), Ronda Rousey, Becky Lynch and/or Charlotte (only had Charlotte for a week), and Rey for their core of top stars. Only star they managed to actually get from their list was Reigns.

Also didn't get the sports-like presentation WWE promised for SD nor the sports-like talk show format promised for WWE Backstage.

Problem with AEW's sports-like promise was people thinking that meant it was going to be just like NJPW when that quickly ended up not being the case. They have added some sports-like stuff with post show press conferences for events and the rankings and records system even if those could use a bit more tweaking. Plus once Taz joined, they started doing breakdowns of moves/spots just like what you'd see in a sports game or sports news show.

Yep, sure, FOX asked for those names specifically and Vince said "Nah, you can't have them." And WWE definitely would produce a show for Fox Sports to air that Fox Sports didn't want.

The problem with AEW promising a sports-based presentation is that they put on bullshit.

FOX paid over a billion dollars for WWE Smackdown under the assumption that Andrade was going to be on the show, so I think the least Vince could do is to give them what they paid for.

Andrade wasn't even their first choice for Hispanic star to cater to their Hispanic market.

They wanted Rey first and even had him appear in ads leading up to the debut on FOX but WWE decided against it in the end. Then they asked for Andrade as a replacement and didn't get him either.

The key to that whole mess was USA Network actually paid more for RAW than FOX did for SD so WWE had to make sure USA wasn't left unhappy by all of FOX's talent requests but ended up swinging too hard in favor of USA.

Man, FOX must sure be unhappy right now.

This is exactly what Fox wanted to be going forward after selling most of their assets to Disney.

They wanted live sports television. I am not saying it's a great strategy, but it is their business plan.

Let's also not forget the big cross promotion Fox was going to do with Smackdown, but with no other sporting events happening, one could argue that Fox itself is partially responsible for lower ratings due to the inability to cross promote the show as planned.

Imagine paying $2 billion for a show, only for them to stab you in the back by preventing access to talent you asked for. You would just be fuming. But what can you do?

just gonna shove roman reigns down everyone's throat 3x as hard if he ever comes back

to be honest I've gotten to recording it and watching it later so I can ff through commercials.

I already do it for nxt and AEW. Don't know why i haven't started fir RAW yet. Probably just habit

Noid has gone full CyNick.

He did that a while ago

Watching it via a replay is completely fine since its not like a Hulu version where they cut out actual stuff so you don't get the whole show.

I pretty much do that for NXT since no commercials or WWE ads brings it down to around an 80-90 minute show instead of 2 hours. Still get all the actual stuff that happened without the added fluff from a live broadcast.

I can't remember if I've said this in this thread or not, but over here there are ordered shows that are one hour versions of both Raw and SmackDown. The funny things about that are that there is obviously demand for way more succinct WWE programming, but there is also demand for it. People have to edit and export those shows. That's the future of WWE programming.

When cable dries up even more, they are going to be valuable to streaming services. And cable will probably cut down on the ordered hours of programming before they outright cancel WWE. WWE have those hour versions produced, so should the bubble start to shrink, they can put on those hour shows and put on full length broadcasting on the WWE Network for those who eat it up. But they're obviously going to try and get their full shows over as much as possible.

The "sky is falling" mentality for WWE, even if you hate that company, is probably never going to amount to anything other than billions of dollars for WWE. Whereas the shrugging and excuses making for AEW is probably going to cost them a lot more a lot sooner.

Easy E is correct


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eric Bischoff on TV ratings in relation to talent in AEW &amp; WWE being truly &quot;over.&quot; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/83Weeks?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#83Weeks</a> <a href="https://t.co/dZnQxq78L7">pic.twitter.com/dZnQxq78L7</a></p>&mdash; Meltzer Said What? (@MeltzerSaidWhat) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeltzerSaidWhat/status/1280302769518317574?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Eric Bischoff is very rarely, if ever, correct.

He's right about AEW losing about half their live viewers and the show not holding people and being worth shit. He's wrong that COVID ratings should just be thrown out. Keeping people somewhat engaged through this period is important. Audiences aren't just guaranteed to come back and give a shit about something they stopped giving a shit about again. And when you completely ass it like AEW, you're going to make such a bad impression that you'll end up doing real damage to yourself.

He’s also right about no one being a draw anymore.

The only way people affect ratings these days is if they’re a big fish in a small pond (Jericho getting, maybe, 100k viewers for AEW), or if a big star stops the bottom falling out (Cena, Brock and Reigns seem good at that — and Hogan and Flair in fucking 2019/2020 whatever). And The Rock when he shows up.

They still exist. Wrestling just doesn’t have ‘em.

Right. That’s what I meant. WWE can’t build stars anymore. And because of that, wrestling doesn’t matter anymore.

That is 100% by design, so much so that anybody even approaching getting breaking out unplanned is squashed down, giving up all the money they could draw.

If Austin 3:16 happened today, starting tomorrow Vince would book him to say stupid things, randomly lose matches to lucha house party, then stick him in months long never ending fueds with Dolph Ziggler and Baron Corbin. Then randomly team him up Apollo Crews.

RAW ratings delayed to Wednesday morning

I do think they were trying with Drew, what with the XFL launching, TV rights kicking in and contracts being longer. The virus has thrown that into the air. But yeah, no one has really done well in creating a star in a long, long time.

1.687 million

I believe that's the lowest viewership in RAW history


https://i.postimg.cc/8PJ2PkBK/Final-...Jul-06-MON.png

Wrestling is dead in the fucking water and Vince killed it.

They’re almost slipping to AEW-level demo placement too. Time to cut that shit to two hours and ship everyone over 40 to a new show on USA Tuesdays.

WWE Legends House 2

Bit of a shame since this week's RAW was actually pretty good for the most part. It still had its share of issues but the start and end were very good.

Prichard being just as ineffective as Heyman pretty much proves the only reason the huge bump happened with him was more due to curiosity of him taking over than anything actually show related. Same type of issue that has been plaguing RAW and WWE in general for years.

715 (AEW) and 759 (NXT)

add em up and they are only 214k away from RAW on Monday, Wednesday truly the A night for wrestling fans, add up the 18-49 demo and it tops RAW


https://i.postimg.cc/YqzWKN4t/AEW.png

Hahahahaha NXT wins again!

Just shut down AEW. It's over.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If anyone thinks I consider being a top 7 show on cable anything but a huge win, they’re incorrect. A win in the demo is a win in the business, and this is a business. I know the industry wasn’t talking about the demo as much 20 years ago, but it’s what drives our revenue today.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281324955725107200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Lol way to spin your company dropping like a stone.

Wow, is AEW the number 6 or 7 promotion now?

I love Tony's passion and how available he makes himself to fans on Twitter!

Lol he's such a sensitive puss

"Well you know it's all about demos".

Lol fuck off. Your viewership has been cut in half and you're losing every week now to WWE developmental.

WWE's viewership has been cut in half too tho, it's an all around thing and it's a big positive

The fanbase is finally shrinking to manageable number, now we just need to get less wrestling on TV so it's less of a time commitment for fans!

Well AEW is going to be cancelled at the rate they are going. Probably gonna get absorbed by Impact.

NXT wins the popular vote, AEW wins the electoral college

That huge gap NXT has with older viewers pretty much has been the only reason they won total viewers these past 2-3 weeks. Pretty much wipes away whatever advantage AEW has elsewhere with demos.

Also kind of crazy how the one WWE show that's supposed to be catered towards younger fans has pretty much been the opposite almost from the start with some exceptions.

The WWE thinks it's catering to young fans with NXT, but really the no bullshit style does cater to an older crowd. I would be interested to see how much of the audience used to watch the old territories (including pre Hogan WWF)

Yeah, its also why WWE might be looking at another Cena-like disaster within a couple years in the sense of not properly building up their next core of young TV viewers with NXT.

At some point that reliable old WWE audience is going to crack and all three of WWE's brands are going to suffer even worse than now.

Similar thing happened back in the mid-90s where WWE was only being kept afloat by their older viewers and were only saved by WCW taking off big time which lead to the Attitude Era and their new core of young viewers forming. NXT's already proven in the past that they can't form that new young core on their own nor be that much of a factor in improving WWE's main shows.

This is my all-time favorite Tony Khan meltdown tweet


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Never. I’ll die at this club. Go to hell.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1084150167878729729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tony needs to step away from Twitter, this is unprofessional


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Why tweet about ratings? Because I’m thrilled about these numbers &amp; so are TNT. My family drinks A Little Bit of the Bubbly (Chris’s actual brand) on Thursdays when we’re in the top 10, this is the 3rd time in 4 weeks, &amp; I’m grateful for the great <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a> fans that make it possible!</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281336699063349248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My favorite thing about some of the frequent repliers to my tweets is how the 18-49 demographic is these people’s best friend on Mondays and Fridays, and then they act like they never heard of it on Wednesdays.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281343196107350016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

lol jesus christ

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The fact that you have wrestling personalities like Tony Khan inflating their own egos regarding ratings and demos is laughable. Here’s the truth: these companies fight for a considerably smaller piece of the pie than they were decades ago. Sensible fans don’t care, move on.</p>&mdash; Robbie S. (@KHsNotebook) <a href="https://twitter.com/KHsNotebook/status/1281361683714375681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Is it weird if even though I prefer AEW to WWE I kind of want AEW to lose next week now bc Tony was so whiny about it on Twitter?

It's so off-putting

Tony is at it again...


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">While we don’t charge ppv $ for the show, I hugely appreciate the investment of time anyone makes when they watch <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDynamite?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDynamite</a> or any AEW content, &amp; that’s why it’s important to me that you know that if you invested your time watching Fyter Fest, thank you for helping us succeed!</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281384554088062981?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Shad just needs to take the phone away and tell Tony no more White Claw and Taco Bell until he displays a better attitude.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes, I’m obsessed with winning the demo, but our relative performance in the demo vs. all programming is the most important thing. It’s like, you want to pass for more yards than the opposing QB, it’s fun &amp; an easy thing to track, but winning the game is what matters most by far.</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1281364832080601088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Unless they turn him into a whiny annoying heel on tv, he's wasting his time

That's also really pathetic. I get being proud of something you as yours, but Jesus.

Yeah. Also doesn't help he can be easily baited online leaving himself wide open to ridicule and these type of dumb and avoidable situations.

Closest to him in WWE might be Road Dogg since he'd constantly get into online arguments over some of the smallest and dumbest stuff possible, especially during his time as the lead writer of Smackdown.

At least on the bright side, TPWW got a quick shout out during Tony's rambling on Twitter today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was a <a href="https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX">https://t.co/9mvwf7hJyX</a> boards guy myself</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390202674700289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holy shit TIL that site still exists</p>&mdash; Steve (@ScubaSteveB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScubaSteveB/status/1281390291002458112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Embarrassing.

He could just not give a shit at all.

An emotional and powerful #branding moment for tpww!

*looks around*

*sigh* nobody knows we're here.

Who the fuck is scubasteve?

da_king?

Hahahaha! Tony Khan clearly hurt as fuck by the viewership. If he were truly happy, he wouldn't be melting down so hard. He's starting to work out how hard it is to run a wrestling promotion when the boys are constantly trying to get their shit in and he should say no, but doesn't have the balls.

I seriously doubt the industry uses Showbuzz lists to decide where to invest money, and I seriously doubt the cable television is the most effective way to reach the 18-49 demographic you've got a tiny slice of in 2020.

Also, the internet only cares about that demo when it comes to AEW. They talk shit about Raw and SmackDown's viewership constantly because it's no fun to talk about how they are usually #1 or #2 in the demo.

Noid stating the obvious like it's a new revelation.

Khan brought this on himself by boasting about more viewers before the pandemic.

The reality is that winning the demo was always the most important thing to networks anyway, but it's not hard to see why bringing up the demo now makes it look like he's getting defensive and moving the goalposts. It doesn't matter if what he's saying is true, he looks butthurt.

He should've never brought up ratings in the first place no matter how proud of them he is. I don't care to see CEOs boast about ratings. That's Trump shit.

Haha, I didn't even know he boasted about viewers. Rep for anyone who finds that tweet.

Scuttlebutt has Jericho/OC getting 675k to Cole/Lee getting 995k.

Funny don't draw money

Oh and about those "demos" that Khan holds near and dear.


1 show advertised Mountain Dew, Little Ceasers, State Farm, m&m, Lexus, papa johns, T-mobile, Thrivent, Hershey, Iams, stamps.com, Good Rx, Terminex the first 30 min. The other Cracker Barrel, Sensodyne, Taco Bell, Mirror, Warby, Geico. Any guesses which is which.



He can crow about his demos all he wants, NXT is THUMPING AEW in terms of quality sponsors.

This is exactly what I meant when I said I want AEW to fail. Not because I don't want more wrestling, but because I get far more enjoyment out of these meltdowns from these pretentious assholes who crow about how great AEW is, but then meltdown anytime somebody doesn't buy into their cult brainwashing.

The fact that this time it was the petulant manchild of a billionaire who calls himself the owner, well that makes it all the more sweeter.

Happy we were finally able to find da_king

I want to join Twitter just to find out which poster this is

Can't wait to see Jericho and Tony's meltdowns when NXT beats them in the demos. They've invited this.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sup dude, I still post at TPWW. Have been a member since 2001. What was your user handle?</p>&mdash; The Daley News (@DaleNewstead) <a href="https://twitter.com/DaleNewstead/status/1281732054653313030?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I eagerly await his reply.

LOL you actually asked him, classic!

Ouch at the numbers for Miz's new game show on USA Network.

Not as dire as the drop WWE Backstage did from its special preview episodes to official debut but neither was it a good number for an official debut episode although to be fair a bit, the preview show was on NBC.

For some perspective, WWE Backstage did 597k and 426k for its preview episodes and a measly 49k for its actual debut episode.

Holy shit, it outdrew AEW, hahahaha.

:eek: a non-wrestling show managed to beat a wrestling show.

Remember when wrestling used to do really well? How we've fully embraced "wrestling is shit and anything else is better."

The thread title should be "Mr. Nerfect has a meltdown on TPWW."

ROFL!!

Lol I don't think he's about to have a meltdown with that revelation

Curious to see if SD has a drop like RAW and stays under 2 million, I wouldn't be surprised

Prediction: No one talks about the demos.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NXT gave away their biggest possible match yet AEW *expanded* their demo lead from the week before. That's the story. It's crazy how people miss this by focusing on the surface level &amp; mostly meaningless total viewer counts. NXT has given away huge matches to crawl into the .2's</p>&mdash; Voices of Wrestling (@voiceswrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1281671914583461897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't think it really matters what NXT gets in the ratings or what matches it gives away. Its very presence detracts from viewers from AEW.

If the demos mattered that much AEW would have better advertisers on their show

Dick pills are highly viable Gertner. Fuck off.

Are advertisers really going out of their way to buy ad space to cater to a bunch of 48 year old white dudes who still have cable? That seems extremely archaic. NXT would surely have a more diverse audience, and they’re also plugged in all around the world. And why the fuck wouldn’t viewers matter? Old people don’t buy shit? Especially if they’re lonely wrestling fans that like jacking it to the Women’s Division? That’s some bullshit.

1.904 million

Tough situation for FOX, a few green spots below but at billion dollars over five years is probably looking like a poor financial investment!


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-cont...Jul-10-FRI.png

Here's how the top 4 did this week:

SD - 1.904 million
RAW - 1.687 million
AEW - 715k
NXT - 759k

Isn't it quite obvious that it's not just WWE that is falling greatly but ratings in general are a fraction of what they were 20 years ago. Am I totally off base here? Obviously if you look at WWE you see a decline pretty much since The Invasion angle, but couldn't the same be said about TV ratings in general?

15.6 million watched the NFL draft earlier this year

102 million watched the Super Bowl

so it depends on the show/event

No, they're buying ad space to get their products in front of the millions of 18-49 year olds that live in the 80+ million households in the U.S. who have cable or satellite. Pretty sure advertisers have much better data and insight on their potential consumers in the U.S. and the most cost effective ways to reach them.

Most advertisers don't care about demographic diversity, they want to advertise to people who can and will buy their products right now. Data consistently shows that the ideal U.S. consumer to most advertisers is a white person between the ages 18 and 49.

It's not rocket science, you just have to choose to not be such an idiot who refuses to learn or understand it.

Yes in general but for sports its more of a mixed bag. Like the NFL last season went up in ratings and I think they've been up ever since the post-Kaepernick kneeling controversy.

When WWE was pushing for new tv deals, they were selling themselves hard as being equivalent to sports in terms of being DVR proof and as a reliable live content provider. FOX bit big on that sales pitch which is why they started talking about using their sports properties to help promote Smackdown.

WWE not having an offseason unlike sports is actually hurting them more than helping since they don't get any real chance to rest and recharge their creative batteries.