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Not really his fault though. I mean, what has he actually done since dropping the US title?

He did try to become more serious in that revamped show of his (forgotten the name), but WWE just seem determined not to have him do anything.

Oh, I agree it is not entirely his fault, but I just don't see people suddenly latching onto it again.

Dirtsheets sponsored by The Selfie Crew:
http://i.imgur.com/7MAZBr4.gif

Reason is due to Destination America not wanting a new Impact episode to be shown during Memorial Day and potential hurt ratings even more than they are now. Observer also confirmed Destination America lost all interest they had with TNA in the past few months.

Segment from JTG's recently released book.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Still my favourite picture of me.Looking dashing and more handsome than ever. <a href="http://t.co/ZQjblaPs2t">pic.twitter.com/ZQjblaPs2t</a></p>&mdash; William Regal (@RealKingRegal) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealKingRegal/status/598841672865226752">May 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Some other sheet news include:

• Today is Vader's 60th birthday.
• Besides this week's NXT episode, Sami Zayn confirmed on Twitter he will be wrestling at next week's NXT Takeover special. https://twitter.com/ilikesamizayn/st...92538514612224
• GFW announced Andrew Everett and Trent Barreta have been signed recently for their roster.
• This week's WWE Inbox episode focused on NXT stars as promotion going into next week's special. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5vD2jnJM0w

I am approx 10 weeks behind in NXT.... should catch up....

Owens sat in a chair ringside at the start of the 3x match with Balor and Breeze and we got chill Owens chill and sit Owens sit chants.

Also got a Blake sucks Murphy that's ok chant and SHIT after every BULL in Bull Drmpseys theme:

Now nine weeks behind.... forgot what an awesome theme song Alex Riley has.... Too bad it is Alex Riley....

I remember his promo here being really shitty:

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If HHH posts his cell phone video I'm almost certainly in it..

It's on periscope no android app though

What the hell is Shoot Nation had it ever been on NXT TV? Or was is just a House show thing?

I like Zack Ryder fine. He peaked in that TLC match against Ziggler though. There was nothing more for him. I thought he should have gotten a WrestleMania match against Eve's new man (preferably The Miz) where he could get a good mid-card WrestleMania moment out of that... but he just wasn't a long-term star.

I always felt like stuff with a creative base is subjective. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up watching ECW, and watching guys weaknesses getting hidden, and their strengths being accentuated, but there is literally no one on the roster right now that I feel, if given the right program and the right situation, that can't believably get over and main event a PPV or several. Or become main event players in general.

WWE is just so one track minded with shit, and not consistent, nothing ever gets started up and KEPT up. Wade should have won that title from Orton. The Kofi feud with Orton should have never stopped. Nexus should have gone over at Summerslam. Cody should have won MITB that year, since Sandow just threw it away against Cena on a random Monday night. Also, SANDOW THREW IT AWAY AGAINST CENA ON A RANDOM MONDAY NIGHT. Ryback heel turn? Fandaaaangooooo is stupid and can't be taken seriously. They tried to snuff out Daniel Bryan, but by DB's own words, they couldn't ignore it any more. If they aren't careful, Ambrose is next. And Wyatt.

Can't explain that, but I've always been behind Ryder since his Z! True Long Island Story days. Couldn't care less about any weaknesses he had, the guy made himself one of the most over guys on the roster, entirely on his own, and WWE just stood there and did fuck all with it.

Surely that's the kinda employee you'd want, right? Guy had arenas all over America (and the World, maybe?) chanting "We Want Ryder! Woo! Woo! Woo!", and he did it completely by himself, without the WWE getting behind him. Kinda guy with passion and drive like that, that's who I'd want under my employ if I had a choice.

Only on PC

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They've been on one episode but weren't announced as Shoot Nation

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Does anyone think this painting in Philly art museum looks like <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEDanielBryan">@WWEDanielBryan</a> or is it just me <a href="http://t.co/pPZP231cRl">pic.twitter.com/pPZP231cRl</a></p>&mdash; Matthew (@droford) <a href="https://twitter.com/droford/status/598873840920330241">May 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
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They definitely could have made more money off him than they did.

I hate this "most over guys on the roster" thing about Ryder.

His big moments were a few in SUPER smark heavy audiences. Then two weeks later hes in Indiana and no one gives two fucks about him.

They gave his smark base a nice little payoff but No, he wasnt a long term star and he never did anything once he had the ball to keep it.

<font color=goldenrod>Ryder's high water mark was always going to be holding one of the secondary belts, and he did it.

Do I think they could have done more with him than they did? Absolutely. He's not bad in the ring, has a clear passion for wrestling, and seemed to get decent reactions. He probably could have been kept solidly in the midcard where he'd actually have programs/things to do instead of immediately going back to being Superstars fodder. But World Champion? No chance.</font>

Cool, but why not just kick him in the chin in the first place?

Why hold hands in the first place?

Impact is moving to Wednesday on June 3rd.

Nxt, Lucha and TNA all on sname night

Absolutely. Never would look at Zack Ryder as world champion material (then again, that was probably said about 90% of world champions when they were relatively new) but the guy was super over, won the US title, dropped it two/three weeks later and then pretty much got dumped.

Guy has a legit passion for wrestling, desire and ingenuity. I don't care what people think about Zack, whether his character had longevity or not, ultimately, these are the qualities I'd look for in my employees.

Can't even remember how the subject of Zack Ryder came up in this thread, but damn I wish WWE would use him. He's a solid midcarder and has a lot to offer.

So the Network is free to anyone this month? They sent me a email telling me to comeback and May will be free. I get to see PAYMOTHERFUCKINGBACK for free.

Same like last time, its free to new and expired members but not for current members.

"Why post such a reply when it's fairly obvious we're not being serious?"

Come on.

http://quickwrestlingnews.com/wp-con...ance-storm.png












Seriously.

Nakamura is the sort of nutcase who would fluff around like that anyway.

By the way, is Nakamura vs. Ambrose sort of a dream match to anyone else?

I was thinking about the 2/3 Falls Match for the Tag Team Titles at Payback today (by the way, I can't believe we haven't been talking about that more). I hope that what happens is that Cesaro & Kidd face Kofi & Woods, or something, and then after the faces win the first fall, Big E takes Woods' place. It wouldn't make too much sense following the strict laws of professional wrestling, but it would get heat and give Cesaro & Kidd a way to look great in losing.

Looks like Samoa Joe and WWE worked it out. Expected debut soon.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/b2636bcfe...0116o1_500.png

Need to cut just Roman Reigns out of this pic so it is just him...

https://41.media.tumblr.com/29a685ba...2v7o1_1280.jpg

Highly decorated

Haven't seen it spread around the net yet but supposedly Destination America's tv deal with TNA includes the ability for DA to opt out of their 2 year deal around this September.

Assuming its true, big possibility TNA is going to need to find a new home if Impact ratings continue to struggle or DA still doesn't care about TNA by then.

TNA should just fucking quit already.

Yeah yeah yeah, that's the stuff....

I was gonna place a shitty DVD movie and add some caption to it, but I started working on that champion .gif

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Because you're a fine example of someone who never moans online. :y:

Sorry got distracted saw all the "moaning" in here while looking at Lana....

That time Mike Rotunda Steiner-lined Rick Steiner.

Also, Varsity Club was extremely underrated.

As a kid, I was genuinely afraid of IRS. As an adult, I can't say the same about Bray Wyatt.

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="4" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAAGFBMVEUiIiI9PT0eHh4gIB4hIBkcHBwcHBwcHBydr +JQAAAACHRSTlMABA4YHyQsM5jtaMwAAADfSURBVDjL7ZVBEgMhCAQBAf//42xcNbpAqakcM0ftUmFAAIBE81IqBJdS3lS6zs3bIpB9WED3YYXFPmHRfT8sgyrCP1x8uEUxLMzNWElFOYCV6mHWWwMzdPEKHlhL w7NWJqkHc4uIZphavDzA2JPzUDsBZziNae2S6owH8xPmX8G7zzgKEOPUoYHvGz1TBCxMkd3kwNVbU0gKHkx+iZILf77IofhrY1nY FnB/lQPb79drWOyJVa/DAvg9B/rLB4cC+Nqgdz/TvBbBnr6GBReqn/nRmDgaQEej7WhonozjF+Y2I/fZou/qAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; ██████████relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://instagram.com/p/2wlQt5CkEI/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_top">Ahhh useless toilet humor, all in good fun, if u r offended.... It's a joke :) #LetItGo</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A video posted by Nikki Bella (@thenikkibella) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2015-05-16T22:11:27+00:00">May 16, 2015 at 3:11pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js"></script>

lol

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I really don't get Frozen. What is the big deal with it and that song?

its kid shit

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/FightOwensFight">@FightOwensFight</a> channels his inner <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnCena">@JohnCena</a> against <a href="https://twitter.com/MmmGorgeous">@MmmGorgeous</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/wwebalor">@wwebalor</a>! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NXTAlbany?src=hash">#NXTAlbany</a> <a href="http://t.co/2MScj5jW3O">pic.twitter.com/2MScj5jW3O</a></p>&mdash; SXM Busted Open (@BustedOpenRadio) <a href="https://twitter.com/BustedOpenRadio/status/599756889296080896">May 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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we need Owens to face Cena on Raw now, make it happen

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Big thanks to the Americans at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEStateCollege?src=hash">#WWEStateCollege</a> for stealing my star of the Russian federation. Hope eBay is gud to you.</p>&mdash; Rusev (@RusevBUL) <a href="https://twitter.com/RusevBUL/status/599456401778421760">May 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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The person who stole it decided one of the first things to do when he got back from the event was to post a picture of himself wearing it.

Putins gonna someone after them and get it back

This is the greatest thing in NXT history.

RKO OUTTA NO WHERE

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Wait a second...

There is one major hole in this "he's just a smark phenom" logic certain guys get: Kevin Owens.

I distinctly remember a post about Kevin Steen looking "like a fan". I believe it had some disparaging things to say about Tyler Black, too... but IN SPITE OF being a so-called indy darling because of his RoH stint, he is being booked like a million goddamn dollars in NXT. They could have easily said "fuck this guy" and he and Bull Dempsey could have easily had their roles reversed. Instead of burying him or letting him languish off camera, they piggybacked off of what fame he had.

Ryder got over on his own, and that translated into a miniscule increase in TV time. WwE has tried in the past to force feed guys with less EVERYTHING than Zack had going for him. John Cena was generic as they come on his debut, and he had no following and he eventually became marketed as "the man".

A misconception seems to be he should have been strapped to a rocket and instantly in contention to be WWE champion. Not the case.The issue is the head-in-the-sand mentality of WWE; "if we don't like it, it's unimportant". He basically did all the legwork. He got over in a way WWE didn't even really consider. Hell, until "Z!" got as huge as it did, WWE still acted like the internet was in the same state it was in about 1995... a non factor, loose collection of IWC neckbeard virgins banging away on keyboards in basements and college labs instead of this thing that almost everyone at their live shows has access to in their pockets all the time.

And even after this, you'd think they'd feature the guy more or put him in proper feuds. Instead, they job him out, which makes him look like a loser. Who wants to back a loser? They have Rosa dump him with no kind of "retaliation". Now he's a weak loser. He has less matches and more cameos in catering. Now he's a weak loser who can't even get a match. Why should we like this guy??? Instead of piggybacking off of what he had going for him and building him up to be a future star, they didn't do jack shit.

Yeah, "two weeks later in Indiana no one gives a fuck about him", because WWE didn't give a fuck about him. They didn't do anything with what they had. He could have been made into a bigger deal he made himself into, and the machine just didn't do it.

And it's so subjective, this argument, I mean. That comment in that post I barely remember shitting on Tyler Black... who is now WWE Champion. He didn't have the groundswell Ryder had, let alone do it on his own outside of WWE channels, and they pushed the guy. Over time. They gave him shit to do. Angles. Feuds. He wasn't counting lights on a regular basis. And now look at him, he's a big deal. He's the champ. He's the champ because the machine got behind him, and he wasn't even the most over guy in The Shield (neither was Reigns, and we all know where he's headed, one way or another).

Simply, they had a lot less they needed to invest in the guy, and they just... didn't. This isn't "revisionist history", this is one of many dropped balls by the company itself. Ryder, Cody, Kofi, and Ziggler should have all been selling seats as legitimate stars by now. That "moster heel" push that Rusev got could have been done a couple months sooner by Big E. Cesaro should be bigger than his tag team with Kidd as he was on track for until... WWE just got bored with him. Fandango's theme song becomes an iTunes sensation and crowds are singing along with it and "Fandangoing"... and WWE doesn't decide to push this as a face turn angle idea until over two years later, after that iron has cooled down significantly (people still do it, but it was freakin' HUGE at the time). As entertaining as the joke character Curtis Axel has become is, it would have been better for everyone if they kept him as a star-in-the-making enforcer instead of meatshield bitch.

They had control over these perceptions. They could have improved the standing in the eyes of fans for of a lot of their roster. But they chose not to.

They had the power to snowball Zack's popularity into something huge. Instead, they not only met it with apathy, but acted as if it was "his fault" he wasn't made into a bigger star.

Zack Ryder got a push and he blew it. He needed to hit a home run promo when he was in the ring with Daniel Bryan and CM Punk the night after they all won titles. He failed miserably.

Didn't he only get like two lines in the whole thing? Both of which had to be used for his catchphrases?

I tried (and failed) to find that one post somebody put up of the NXT debut of Joey Samoey.i thought it would be an apt and funny reply to this post. Now I'm just sad, because I had to explain it instead of being able to just find the damn post.:-\

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is your winner. A <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RealAmerican?src=hash">#RealAmerican</a> who is not scared to show his true colors and profession. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/thief?src=hash">#thief</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RealAmerican?src=hash">#RealAmerican</a> <a href="http://t.co/K7ncVvNS9n">pic.twitter.com/K7ncVvNS9n</a></p>&mdash; Rusev (@RusevBUL) <a href="https://twitter.com/RusevBUL/status/599466888888999937">May 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Hahaha. He made his profile private, but, uh... one problem chief.

http://i.imgur.com/4jgwma5.png

Gotta change your profile picture.

In all honesty, though, that is the problem. *He* needed to hit a home run right then, and because he didn't his self made momentum gets quashed? Contrasted to, say, Jeff Hardy, who's promos while he was getting his initial WHC pushe were initially cringeworthy? Or how about the obvious shit promo Reigns is for the most part (improving, but still). Didn't stop him.

I'm reminded of a couple different things here. Is is a paraphrase from CM Punk (because I don't remember the exact quote, so I will generically use Cena as the first example) where he says PPV buyrate is down from a Cena* headlined show has all sorts of excuses, but the next PPV being down, with no Cena*, and its "the fault of Miz and R-Truth".

Second is Mick Foley's story about the "return of Cactus Jack", where basically HHH's expression sold the deal. "All I was doing was revealing a t-shirt. If he would have laughed it off, it would have been dead in the water. Instead, he sold it like he saw a ghost." If Hunter shrugged that moment off, it would have not only killed exitement with fans, but oddly somehow been Mick's fault it didn't get over?

He got blamed for being a bad promo, instead of being given room to improve (think of how far everyone's favorite photoshop, David Otunga stepped up on the mic. He went from gawdawful to going around giving school lectures on bullying). Ryder was basically given the laugh reaction to the Cactus Jack shirt.

Let's look at Ascention (yes, I'm still on topic). They were booked in NXT to be a tag team force to be reconed with. On their call up, they get the pseudo-LoD overhaul, and claim to be better than tag teams they have never (or in some cases could ever) face. The squash a few job teams, esentially getting a tag team version of Ryback's booking... but are continually bashed on commentary for doing so, as opposed to when Ryback did it, he was put over. Then, they get jumped by a bunch of "legends" teams. They also cut shit promos, even the canned ones. The promoing is their bad, but getting their nuts cut off from the booth and going from world beaters to buffoons who barely beat an "over the hill" New Age Outlaws isnt exactly how you go about establishing these guys as the future... especially when that win didn't lead anywhere. The only thing here that is the fault of Konnor and Viktor is that they aren't that good on the stick. For that, they should get a mouthpiece or more practice. But all the rest of that is not in their control. It could have, and still could be handled better.

Zack giving a shitty promo (such as it was, even) shouldn't have doomed him from the world forever, especially when people got more opportunity from worse.

Totally 100% agree with everything Tom Guycott is saying here.

As for Ryder, and "that promo", yeah he literally had two lines, which was basically his catchphrase. And in all fairness, it wasn't that bad, people still "woo woo woo'd" along with him. Guy should have been made a star in 2012. And no I'm not saying multiple WWE title reigns, but the guy should have at least been used on a regular basis. People have recovered and been given more chance to recover from worse things than a shitty two-line promo. That should not have been the end of Ryder.

As for the Ascension, I don't think the issue is their mic skills, it's the content of their promos. As soon as they started talking shit about being better than the LoD, Demolition etc... I just knew that was it. :nono:

Lol. Such butt hurt about Ryder.

He is bad. And you are bad. But you liked him only because he was counter www culture and you want to be right.

And also, lol as Kevin Owens as your shining example....let's see him on the main roster get over before we crown him a star. Look no further than Emma to see what being over in nxt means.

He will start over just like them all, and have to sink or swim.

Where's a Genie so i can become the glass horse?

Yo, gurl, I'm a genie, so why don't you come over here and rub my lamp?

Apologies to all females everywhere for the above post, and to the TPWW Universe in general for the bad post. It will never happen again.

http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/src/1431891445353.gif

Were the tables meant to break since I can't think of another way that was meant to end well for anyone involved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Haha! &quot;<a href="https://twitter.com/MLB">@MLB</a>: World Heavyweight Champion <a href="https://twitter.com/WWERollins">@WWERollins</a> mean muggin’ with <a href="https://twitter.com/SimplyAJ10">@SimplyAJ10</a>. <a href="http://t.co/3F6NIF65oT">pic.twitter.com/3F6NIF65oT</a>&quot;</p>&mdash; Sports With Coleman (@sportswcoleman) <a href="https://twitter.com/sportswcoleman/status/600000368064536576">May 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Rollins: Who'd you beat to be World Champion?

For those of you not in the Payback thread:

Return of the Stone Cold Podcast on June 1st with Paul Heyman.

Oh sweet jesus.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/WWECesaro">@WWECesaro</a> sup? How's your snatch?</p>&mdash; #ec3forCHAMP (@EthanCarterTNA) <a href="https://twitter.com/EthanCarterTNA/status/599994443970846720">May 17, 2015</a></blockquote>
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In reference to this pic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFKdjRvVAAAVVle.jpg

I wanna see this:

http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-con...1402764708.jpg

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the three year I wrestled for NJPW in Japan I was Load and not Lord.I'll let you figure it out. <a href="http://t.co/o1tYL7Js42">pic.twitter.com/o1tYL7Js42</a></p>&mdash; William Regal (@RealKingRegal) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealKingRegal/status/598844101753110529">May 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Supposedly a translation of what Rusev was saying last night before Lana quit for him.

Would have been better if Rusev was just trash talking Cena the whole time and not actually quitting. Lana could still quit for him because she's worried about his well being.

I think it might be a bigger heel move to actually quit and lie about it and throw Lana under the bus.

That's a good heel move for a conniving, sneaky, chicken shit heel. Not so much for a brute like Rusev is supposed to be.

lol @ "Damn your old mother" though.

:-\ Hall with drinking problems again.

As an adult I'm afraid of the IRS

Yeah but this is like 8 mile where future was like "My boy eminem is a great rapper" and the black people were like "nah, we don't believe you" and then future said "Nah he'll show you, you'll see" and then eminem choked and the movie ended because the black people never gave him another chance.

:shifty:

I bet nobody remembers this.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AYpv9DRvPCo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Guess that HOF Appearance check finally arrived.

*looks at today's date*

Aw... shit...

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Sheets sponsored by Awkward Rope Holding 101 class with Prof. Ziggler:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/6ea96edd2...fo1_r1_400.gif

Part of a longer interview Sports Illustrated had with The Rock: http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015...32-deflategate

Some highlights from a recent NXT media call Triple H usually does going into an NXT special. http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircl...xt_media_call/

RAW's ratings and viewership went up this week. Biggest positives ended up being around 300,000 more people watched compared to last week, very small hourly drops, and strong 8pm hour.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Coming October 2015! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWE2K16?src=hash">#WWE2K16</a> <a href="http://t.co/AmebGW9qr6">pic.twitter.com/AmebGW9qr6</a></p>&mdash; WWE 2K (@WWEgames) <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEgames/status/600396795345272832">May 18, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Arriving on October 27th for the PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, and Xbox One. Like with WWE 2k15, PC version arrives at a later date.


Some other sheet news includes:

• According to the Observer, big reason Destination America has soured on the TNA deal is because of DA's usual ad sponsors want nothing to do with TNA nor be associated with wrestling.
• More problems regarding CMLL in Mexico as one of their stars is being investigated by police for attacking a security guard at an event. Making things worse was CMLL tried to sweep the incident under the rug and bribed the hospital receiving the guard to downplay the severity of the injuries received. http://boards.420chan.org/wooo/res/4541358.php
• For anyone interested, Rolling Stones had a recent interview with the Young Bucks. http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/f...money-20150519
• Besides the Young Bucks, Rolling Stones also had a recent interview with Kevin Owens. http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/f...0150518?page=2
• Reminder that Lucha World Cup is airing this Sunday on iPPV for those interested. More details in the SquaredCircle link http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircl...l_lucha_world/

Lol at Chinlock City chants for Owens, that's Taylor made for Orton