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Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 09:28 PM
From what I’ve read about the ratings, Bryan and Punk have already kind of lost their novelty. I like both guys, but they have not been able to help the show grow in an immediate sense.

There is obviously more to it than that. It’s possible that they’ve brought in a new audience that cycles in and out as diehards die off or whatever. If people are used to bad shit, sometimes giving them good shit could be jarring. As much as I want to see it, putting WALTER and Cesaro in a wrestling series could be a tanker for a WWE show. It doesn’t mean it’s bad — it just doesn’t work for the audience cultivated.

This is a niche show that pops a little bit in the ratings for Orange Cassidy. That’s not because OC is good. It’s the car wreck mentality. Those people don’t stick around for the rest of the show. It’s like Sable’s tits in the Attitude era. You get the loyal audience that likes this shit + the gawkers who would stop flicking to laugh at it. But overall, an act like Orange Cassidy caps you. Makes you look a bit bush league. Means serious stuff isn’t going to connect on any authentic level.

AEW can add anyone they want, but when the fans they bring in check out this product, it ends up leaving the impression that this promotion is hurting the guy and not so much the guy helping the promotion.

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 09:29 PM
This is why I get frustrated by them. Why would Vince McMahon change anything? It’s not like AEW has found an amazing recipe to use these ingredients.

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 09:33 PM
It’s also important to remember that guys are draws in contexts. Being a big fish in a small pond helps you make an immediate impact. But some guys just end up looking like they’re in a small pond.

Punk did move a PPV in the WWE. Back in 2011. Besides that, he wasn’t a noticeable draw in the biggest promotion in the world. Bryan was apparently pretty steady for a sneeze. I’ll take that on good faith. But is he a draw in the context of being this undersized guy in the WWE going for the top spot? Or is he inherently a draw because of his wrestling? Does him going to the B promotion make him look like that “B+ Player,” as the line goes?

Are people waiting for these guys to do something that really matters. Punk’s just happy to be there wrestling lower-card guys. Bryan has already been beaten. Maybe that booking contributes to the tune-out of their arrivals?

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 09:35 PM
Would tidying up the show even work? If you get rid of Cutler & Nakazawa, are the fans going to enjoy/flock to a more professional show? Or are the existing fans going to sook and whine because two jokesters have lost their position hovering around the main events?

There needs to be change if this promotion is going to get any bigger, but where is this change going to come from, and is even good change going to be too damaging?

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 09:44 PM
At this point, I’d be all for Tony borrowing more money from his dad to start a second promotion. Start from scratch.

Lock Jaw 10-08-2021 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5486186)
But is he a draw in the context of being this undersized guy in the WWE going for the top spot? Or is he inherently a draw because of his wrestling? Does him going to the B promotion make him look like that “B+ Player,” as the line goes?
This is kind of what I said about Bryan (and Punk) before. They inherently lost something of what made them special in WWE because instead of being an undersized underdog who is "succeeding despite the company", they are now pretty much the same size as all the top guys and treated just like everyone else on the roster. (The treatment of "our wrestlers are all amazing")

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw (Post 5486190)
This is kind of what I said about Bryan (and Punk) before. They inherently lost something of what made them special in WWE because instead of being an undersized underdog who is "succeeding despite the company", they are now pretty much the same size as all the top guys and treated just like everyone else on the roster. (The treatment of "our wrestlers are all amazing")
I agree with that. :y:

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 10:46 PM
I booked a pretty nifty AEW vs. WWE invasion storyline just now. It’s not something I want to see, per se, but it was a game that came up in an online wrestling group I’m in. It ended at SummerSlam in the UK with Drew McIntyre beating Bryan Danielson to win the Universal Title back for WWE, lol.

You’d like it, Lock Jaw. A couple of big spots for Christian.

SPOILER: show
The invasion started with Jon Moxley attacking Roman Reigns on SmackDown in Cincinnati. Orton & Riddle then went after Punk on Dynamite. Orton & Riddle get attacked by FTR and Punk. A Rampage is crashed by Orton, Riddle, Roman, The Usos and Seth. An in sanctioned open challenge, 6 vs. 6, no one else gets involved elimination match for Survivor Series. TK sends his best six up against the above guys.

TK sends out Moxley, Danielson, Darby (w/ Sting — just there to make sure no funny business goes down, Christian, Punk and Wardlow. The announcers call all the AEW guys by their WWE names. Seth goes first when he’s beating up Darby and starts taunting Sting (“I broke your neck, now I’m going to break his!”). Darby rolls him up. The Usos start beating up Sting. Darby dives out onto them and Roman Spears him on the floor. Darby counted out. Riddle does some MMA stuff with Bryan and Punk, gets cocky, Punk hits a GTS and pins him. Christian pins Jimmy Uso. Jey Uso uses a steel chair on Christian and gets himself disqualified, but helps Orton pin Christian. Seth shows up again and costs Ambrose, allowing Roman to pin him. Punk is beaten down, Seth gets involved again and Wardlow deals with him as Punk is held by Roman so Heyman can slap him. Punk spits mist into the eyes of Heyman (he’s feuding with Malakai Black which is why he isn’t trusted to be on the team). Punk low-blows Reigns, tags in Bryan, who dives onto Reigns. Makes a big comeback, gets powerslammed by Orton. RKO countered into a LeBell Lock, Orton taps. Reigns on his own and gets caught in a triangle. Reigns powerbombs Bryan out, but Bryan still has the arm and turns it into a LeBell Lock. The eliminated WWE guys hit the ring (not technically against the agreement). Maybe sans Riddle, who is still technically a babyface. Wardlow starts tossing guys left right and center. A steel chair manages to bring him down a bit. Malakai Black hits the ring out of the crowd and starts throwing roundhouses. Survivor Series ends with the AEW guys standing tall, with Punk and Black regarding each other.

TK wins and gets to name his prize. He wants the six winners to be given spots in the Royal Rumble (Malakai gets it changed to seven). He also wants a series of challenge matches. No interference, some on Raw, some in WWE, some in AEW. They alternate who books it.

Bryan Danielson wins the Royal Rumble to go against Roman Reigns at Mania. Christian faces Edge in a special challenge somewhere. You get Moxley and Rollins a few times. That sort of thing. Omega vs. Styles happens at WrestleMania, with WWE winning the challenge series. But Danielson wins the Universal Title the same night, takes it to AEW. Vince wants it back. The WWE Title becomes the main belt on each WWE show in the meantime. McIntyre wins Money in the Bank and shows up in AEW and says he respects Danielson too much to cash it in on him unfairly. He’ll wrestle him at SummerSlam in the UK, if Bryan is willing. McIntyre picks up Nigel McGuinness as a coach for the match. Drew wins it back, all is right in the world, if the two sides want to keep working together, they can, but they can also give it a break until Survivor Series, where they do another 6 vs. 6, this time more organised. So you get Brock, AJ, Gable Steveson, Bobby Lashley, Edge and Finn Balor from WWE; Kenny Omega, Malakai Black, Anthony Ogogo, Christian and two other guys from AEW — maybe Punk and Wardlow again (Danielson has mellowed out).

After that you can run a yearly WWE vs. AEW show sometime.

Mr. Nerfect 10-08-2021 10:55 PM
I know Vince would never do it. No shit. But if Vince let go of the wheel and WWE thought this was a good way to hot-shot their product and help wrestling, it could lead to some pretty amazing shit.

Imagine Christian getting Tony to book him vs. Orton on Rampage, with the Dynamite promo talking about how he never got to pin Orton. He lost both his WWE World Titles to him, now he wants to prove he can win. Orton shows up with Riddle, but Christian’s insurance policy isn’t Jurassic Express...it’s Edge. And then Orton and Christian wrestle a classic. Christian wins. He’s so so happy. Orton gets back in the ring and offers his hand. A respect moment for Christian. Edge then tells Christian he’s going to be going to Raw to wrestle someone too. It’s going to be him.

Chills.

Evil Vito 10-09-2021 02:09 PM
Lol Rhodes to the Top accidentally showed an unmasked Evil Uno backstage. Backstage locker room shot, camera was focusing in on Wardlow but Uno was there off to the side in full ring gear but no mask.

Of more note, Wardlow might be smashing Cathy Kelley. Good work.

xrodmuc316 10-09-2021 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5486204)
I agree with that. :y:
I want to book an invasion too.

A gauntlet match, every male AEW wrestler vs Roman Reigns.

Roman Reigns beats them all, wins.

Acknowledge Him!

GD 10-09-2021 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5486228)
I booked a pretty nifty AEW vs. WWE invasion storyline just now. It’s not something I want to see, per se, but it was a game that came up in an online wrestling group I’m in. It ended at SummerSlam in the UK with Drew McIntyre beating Bryan Danielson to win the Universal Title back for WWE, lol.

You’d like it, Lock Jaw. A couple of big spots for Christian.

SPOILER: show
The invasion started with Jon Moxley attacking Roman Reigns on SmackDown in Cincinnati. Orton & Riddle then went after Punk on Dynamite. Orton & Riddle get attacked by FTR and Punk. A Rampage is crashed by Orton, Riddle, Roman, The Usos and Seth. An in sanctioned open challenge, 6 vs. 6, no one else gets involved elimination match for Survivor Series. TK sends his best six up against the above guys.

TK sends out Moxley, Danielson, Darby (w/ Sting — just there to make sure no funny business goes down, Christian, Punk and Wardlow. The announcers call all the AEW guys by their WWE names. Seth goes first when he’s beating up Darby and starts taunting Sting (“I broke your neck, now I’m going to break his!”). Darby rolls him up. The Usos start beating up Sting. Darby dives out onto them and Roman Spears him on the floor. Darby counted out. Riddle does some MMA stuff with Bryan and Punk, gets cocky, Punk hits a GTS and pins him. Christian pins Jimmy Uso. Jey Uso uses a steel chair on Christian and gets himself disqualified, but helps Orton pin Christian. Seth shows up again and costs Ambrose, allowing Roman to pin him. Punk is beaten down, Seth gets involved again and Wardlow deals with him as Punk is held by Roman so Heyman can slap him. Punk spits mist into the eyes of Heyman (he’s feuding with Malakai Black which is why he isn’t trusted to be on the team). Punk low-blows Reigns, tags in Bryan, who dives onto Reigns. Makes a big comeback, gets powerslammed by Orton. RKO countered into a LeBell Lock, Orton taps. Reigns on his own and gets caught in a triangle. Reigns powerbombs Bryan out, but Bryan still has the arm and turns it into a LeBell Lock. The eliminated WWE guys hit the ring (not technically against the agreement). Maybe sans Riddle, who is still technically a babyface. Wardlow starts tossing guys left right and center. A steel chair manages to bring him down a bit. Malakai Black hits the ring out of the crowd and starts throwing roundhouses. Survivor Series ends with the AEW guys standing tall, with Punk and Black regarding each other.

TK wins and gets to name his prize. He wants the six winners to be given spots in the Royal Rumble (Malakai gets it changed to seven). He also wants a series of challenge matches. No interference, some on Raw, some in WWE, some in AEW. They alternate who books it.

Bryan Danielson wins the Royal Rumble to go against Roman Reigns at Mania. Christian faces Edge in a special challenge somewhere. You get Moxley and Rollins a few times. That sort of thing. Omega vs. Styles happens at WrestleMania, with WWE winning the challenge series. But Danielson wins the Universal Title the same night, takes it to AEW. Vince wants it back. The WWE Title becomes the main belt on each WWE show in the meantime. McIntyre wins Money in the Bank and shows up in AEW and says he respects Danielson too much to cash it in on him unfairly. He’ll wrestle him at SummerSlam in the UK, if Bryan is willing. McIntyre picks up Nigel McGuinness as a coach for the match. Drew wins it back, all is right in the world, if the two sides want to keep working together, they can, but they can also give it a break until Survivor Series, where they do another 6 vs. 6, this time more organised. So you get Brock, AJ, Gable Steveson, Bobby Lashley, Edge and Finn Balor from WWE; Kenny Omega, Malakai Black, Anthony Ogogo, Christian and two other guys from AEW — maybe Punk and Wardlow again (Danielson has mellowed out).

After that you can run a yearly WWE vs. AEW show sometime.
That was quite an enjoyable read. I wish WALTER and Timothy Thatcher were somehow a part of this. Unfortunately he'll never read this because he can't see my posts

Sepholio 10-09-2021 04:06 PM
Early numbers for rampage have them at 466k. Oof.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph (Post 5486288)
Early numbers for rampage have them at 466k. Oof.
Oof.

slik 10-09-2021 04:53 PM
Ratings won't be available until Monday for Rampage, I haven't seen that anywhere. It wouldn't shock me if that was the number though, it's not a good timeslot for wrestling.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 04:54 PM
It’s not a good time slot for good wrestling, let alone AEW.

slik 10-09-2021 04:55 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dude, people online were absolutely furious over that in 98. Eric already had crazy online heat before that too. I’ll never take it that far; I’ve never claimed I could physically best Vince, I just think AEW can put on a better wrestling show than them &amp; I want people to know it</p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1446925564821000193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 05:02 PM
TK needs to shut up.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 05:06 PM
And no, AEW can not put on a better wrestling show than WWE.

Damian Rey 2.0 10-09-2021 05:22 PM
Idk what noid is bitching about but Jim Cornette himself heaps more praise on AEW and televisión than he does WWE. So AEW wins.

Sepholio 10-09-2021 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik (Post 5486293)
Ratings won't be available until Monday for Rampage, I haven't seen that anywhere. It wouldn't shock me if that was the number though, it's not a good timeslot for wrestling.
Its on forbes. Also reporting 196k in the 18-49 demo.

It will go up some for the final rating though. Last week the early numbers were 564k and went up to 622k for the final numbers.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 05:34 PM
I hate this stupid chest-thumping self-congratulatory bullshit AEW does. Your show sucks, your ratings suck, hockey is more valuable than you, stop trying to convince yourselves.

This seriously makes me want to see them humbled. Ship this shit to Boomerang and people can lie about how good it is there.

Bad News Gertner 10-09-2021 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph (Post 5486288)
Early numbers for rampage have them at 466k. Oof.
Wow, TNA on Destination American called, they want their ratings back.

xrodmuc316 10-09-2021 05:40 PM
So after Phil, Bryan, Cole, and Ruby, they are back to the audience/viewing numbers they were getting before any of them signed. They just can't keep any new viewers long term, it always settles right back to the same hardcore audience.

Also, Tony Khan is an idiot bragging all the time like the short 14 year old that thinks he is great at basketball and won't shut the fuck up. If he just got out of his own way I am certain AEW would be doing better.

xrodmuc316 10-09-2021 05:42 PM
Then again, his father is pretty unsuccessful with the Jaguars and their soccer team, so maybe they can all go hide with Urban Meyers for a while.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 05:48 PM
People just can’t accept that this product isn’t good and doesn’t have any appeal to the average fan. They did all this stuff for attention, and got a little bit, but the shows have not been good enough to keep people.

Damian Rey 2.0 10-09-2021 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Gertner of TPWW (Post 5486310)
Wow, TNA on Destination American called, they want their ratings back.
Ok this one made me laugh lol

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 05:56 PM
There’s no Dynamite to set up Rampage is there? So they’re going into things pretty cold. I’m interested to see what NHL does in the spot. It’s going to be fun hearing people make excuses either way. If hockey does better than AEW...yikes. But if it doesn’t, going to be nice hearing all the ratings marks stutter and stammer trying to explain why a show with a lower demo is in the slot.

Dynamite is apparently getting shuffled around a lot over the next few weeks? That can wreak havoc on you. The show was already losing viewers off the back of all the revived “change the world” hype. Your TV presence being Friday and Saturday is going to be hell. But AEW just isn’t that important.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 06:00 PM
I think more people watch my grandmother accidentally live stream her knitting than watch Rampage at this point. Rhodes to the Top was DOA too. I wonder how AEW would deal with being canceled? They’re quite immature and pissy about things at times.

slik 10-09-2021 06:05 PM
Bless the Taz

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Taz sings a bit of don mclean <a href="https://t.co/BRjv3XnphD">pic.twitter.com/BRjv3XnphD</a></p>&mdash; bossmoz (@BossMoz) <a href="https://twitter.com/BossMoz/status/1445787143960285198?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 06:13 PM
Gee, why wouldn’t people watch a show with Billy Gunn wrestling and Taz singing in 2021?

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 06:15 PM
Billy Gunn is apparently an agent. Whose fucking matches is he putting together? Lol. Good on him for taking that schmuck’s money and getting his sons jobs though.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 06:25 PM
What do you think is more likely? Warner cancels Rampage or do they move it to Wednesdays? Serious question. I’ve seen some people suggesting that it will just be moved until after Dynamite or Rhodes to the Top as part of an AEW block.

I can’t see RttT lasting more than one season and wouldn’t be surprised to see it cancelled before the end. I could see Rampage going 10-11 on Wednesdays after the hockey. But that would mean that AEW would either have to do it live every week or air something taped from the past week or taped earlier.

Mr. Nerfect 10-09-2021 07:01 PM
I guess there’s always the chance they could move it to streaming too.

Or make it a Saturday morning show, but that would always be taped.

rez 10-09-2021 07:32 PM
Noid

Hangman don't give a fuck what you have to say. You bring notta to the table. blahblahblah

<iframe width="1280" height="721" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JZhjhSv3CnM?list=RDJZhjhSv3CnM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Vastardikai 10-10-2021 01:19 AM
The biggest problem with AEW is the problem TNA had: They have midcarders who think they're top guys with the pencil. And I'm not even talking about Cody.

How else do you bring in CM Punk and have him feud with midcarders? How else do you bring in Bryan Danielson and make him look weak to 3/4s of the EVPs? How else do you bring in Christian, have him do nothing for a couple of months, than give him a cheap win over Omega before more or less making him look weak to 3/4s of the EVPs?

You know what that causes? The TNA effect. Where you bring in named guys, pop a ceiling, when they get killed by your midcarders who think they're main eventers, you bring in new named people, pop a slightly lower ceiling. Rinse. Repeat.

Damian Rey 2.0 10-10-2021 01:30 AM
Danielson wrestled the top guy in the company to a draw, beat the shit outta one of the bucks, was booked like wrecking machine again in the multi man match and is going to eventually get another banger with Omega. He’s looked an ass kicker from day 1.

And how do we know Punk isn’t calling his booking? I think if Punk walked in Wednesday and said he wants to start a program against Omega they’d do it.

Lock Jaw 10-10-2021 01:33 AM
Bryan doesn't look weak yet

CM Punk I am beginning to suspect isn't in it "seriously" and just signed for some big money and doesn't want to actually be "in the thick of it" like Bryan is. This is the only logical explanation I can come up with for signing Punk and doing nothing with him. Because he doesn't actually want to do anything.

Lock Jaw 10-10-2021 01:34 AM
Danielson didn't really "beat the s***" outta one of the Bucks.... he should have, but it was a "hard fought" and "competitive" match.

Damian Rey 2.0 10-10-2021 03:50 AM
Punk is certainky doing things. Not high profile stuff outside of the Darby stuff. But it’s not surprising he’s working with young guys. He’ll get to a main event feud eventually. That scene is already packed and Punk wrestling the young guys has been good so far.


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