If AEW isn’t successful and WBD doesn’t think it’s doing well why the fuck would they give them 2 more hours of TV time to produce a new show? That doesn’t make sense.

I came back to TPWW after several years to make up some numbers. Eee hee hee what fun it has been.

Basically this.

Now whoa whoa whoa hold on there, we cannot possibly say that

Source: Dude, trust me.

He is.

Cheap-ass programming. Drive people to streaming by letting cable die. Proof to WWE they’ve got the time available. Dilute the product so it’s easier to dump. There’s several reasons they might do it. I wouldn’t bet that any of them is the case, but none are outside the realm of possibility.

Who is He?

That is almost the right point. WBD would give AEW more hours because it is a cost effective beneficial relationship for WBD. That is the sole aspect that is failing to be understood. Giving AEW another TV show so WBD can make more money off AEW is the smart business decision. Giving them a 400% raise when the shows they are already airing have been drawing less viewers would be a idiotic business decision.

WBD is not bending over backwards to give AEW a single cent more than they have to, no matter what. WBD cares if WBD is successful, that's it. They are giving AEW another show because it is a successful for WBD's bottom line. WBD does not accomplish that by giving AEW some landmark deal just because the IWC thinks AEW deserves it.

500k was a made-up number from Meltzer to low-ball the audience so anything they did over that looked like a miracle. Now you’ve got muppets like Rogerer using that and even smaller numbers as smokescreens.

Dave’s reasoning behind pulling this number out of his ass was “he spoke to someone at Warner” and you could add the 500k on television to B/R Live subscribers and get a bigger number. He was lying.

What are you talking about XRod? I'm not parsing through this entire ridiculous argument. Being good for WBD's bottom line means AEW is--to some degree--successful.

A blowjob from a hooker isn’t love.

Sure. And this might seem like hair-splitting, but I’d say that speaks more to the success of WBD more than AEW. We don’t even know if their new deal (assuming they get one) is going to put them in the green or not when you factor in talent costs, production, etc.

Dynamite would logically bring in >$90 million for both WBD and AEW. If the Alvarez deal is correct (he’s lying), then $100 million per year over 3 years is an absolute dogshit deal. They’d be better off with their current setup.

Between Dynamite, Collision and Rampage, anything less than $200 million would have to be seen as them taking the heavy dick, surely?

I liked MJF and Sammy pretending to be friends but aside from that, this Pillars Four Way match just doesn’t interest me a whole lot.

Problem is it just badly exposed how much further ahead MJF is of the other three. And then Darby himself is probably leagues above the other two in terms of the crowd caring about him despite his inability to talk.

If they insisted on a four way I’m imagining JB and Sammy being subbed out for Eddie Kingston and Ricky Starks. The promos between those two and MJF would be so good. And then Darby would just be there to throw himself at everyone.

It would be absolutely hilarious if AEW gets less money to produce more television. I’m sure Meltzer will report it as an amazing deal though.

Sammy Guevara and Jungle Boy suck. But they send pictures of their girlfriends to Tony so they obviously need a main event push.

And since I know people get confused:

* There are popular things that are good.

* There are popular things that suck.

* There are unpopular things that are good.

* There are unpopular things that suck.

AEW is in that last category. It sucks and it is unpopular. That is when you can draw that correlating link. “Hey, maybe people don’t watch this because it sucks?”

Just for a hypothetical point, lets say WBD makes $100 million a year off AEW programming, and they pay AEW $45 million of that. That is a great deal for WBD because they are profiting $55 million. In what world would WBD say lets give AEW $200 million, and instead of making $55 million a year, lets lose $100 million instead?

That would make AEW much more successful, but why would WBD care? Their job is to make money for WBD, not AEW.

Bryan Danielson is said to be helping out with AEW creative. I’d say this is a step in the right direction, but I don’t think it will make much of a difference. The whole product has got stank on it.

If WBD currently makes way more than $90 million off Dynamite and in the next round they get to take that ad revenue back, how much that factors into the deal will show the leverage AEW has.

$100 million for Dynamite, Collision and Rampage when they would currently get at least that much for Dynamite would just be ludicrous. If that ends up being the deal, it shows they had nowhere else to go.

AEW must be doing well enough to be successful since they’ve been given 3 extra hours of TV after their initial 2019 TV debut. To say anything other than that would just be arguing for the sake of being an idiot.

WBD wouldn’t invest in something if it wasn’t successful and worth the investment. Because that would be stupid.

As far as the ppv goes, this would’ve been a great time to bring Kingston back to AEW TV and give him a main event run against MJF. Pretty obvious Cole is the next babyface in line to get a shot. If they wanted to do a pillars match, Darby by himself would’ve been fine given the history of the 2. Sammy and JB are far below those 2 and shouldn’t be sniffing a main event program.

This makes sense but ugh. I like Adam Cole but he just doesn't scream "main event" to me.

(also I agree with the other stuff you said but don't want to get into that argument lol)

It’s fucking insane that CM Punk would consider going back to work there after the latest attempts to not only fuck with him, but to fuck with the entire Collision concept (and everybody associated with it) by nerfing their star power. And Tony Khan just lets it all happen.

It screams filler feud sadly.

The funny thing is, if Adam Cole had been smart enough to take the “manager” role in WWE, he’d probably be a big thing now. We’d be focused on his strengths. Now we all see his weaknesses.

That is literally what I have been saying, WBD wouldn't put AEW on tv if it was not worth the investment to them.

It is also why I have been saying the IWC's projections are way out of wack. Giving AEW a 400% increase would not be worth the investment. The fact that WBD wants to expand the relationship is because WBD is getting favorable terms. WBD doesn't care what AEW's P&L Report looks like, they are not just going to overpay for AEW because AEW diehards want it to be true.

Cole definitely a feeder feud. At this point I’m not sure who the guy to dethrone MJF is gonna be.

Just put all the titles on Christian

Probably Orange Cassidy.

Lock Jaw gets it

Gets what? Chlamydia?

Oh, ok.

So gonorrhea then.

We’re two of the more honest people about AEW here, but I don’t think either of us has made the point that AEW is not financially convenient television for WBD.

I can’t think of a single AEW championship that wouldn’t be improved by Christian holding it.

That has been my position the entire time. WBD is cutting costs across the board, they are not going to give AEW a 400% increase because it is some magical proof that can be used by AEW fans to argue how great AEW is.

WBD will give AEW just as much as they have to. They know Tiny is going to fund it regardless, so what would they gain? Anything they pay AEW over what they are paying AEW now will decrease the profit for WBD.

None of the defenders have answered WHY would WBD want to go from making money to losing money on AEW?

And no, I do not know the exact financials, but I am fairly comfortable in saying WBD is NOT making over $200 million a year on AEW now with 800,000 viewers.

Seems like a pretty silly move to try and shop around ROH earlier this year and tip your hand that there really aren’t that many suitors for wrestling.

That was the thing that changed everything for me. WBD could potentially leverage a deal with AEW where they pay them less than they do now. It would be brutal, but it’s within the realm of possibility. Where else is AEW going to go? AXS?

The Alvarez deal is LolAEW if true, but is likely Alvarez lying to make AEW look better when they essentially get what you would expect them to (about double what Alvarez is suggesting).

My prediction: $250 million per year for 4 years. That way they can announce it as a $1 billion deal for optics. That includes Dynamite, Rampage, Collision and any auxiliary programming TNT or TBS might require should the NBA go on strike or something.

Tickets have stalled for Wembley. Dave is reporting 62k paid. Obviously their biggest gate ever, but you’d hope so given it’s in a bloody stadium lol.

Predictions for All In card:

* MJF vs. Adam Page for the AEW World Title

* Kenny Omega vs. Will Ospreay for the IWGP US Title

* Chris Jericho & Sammy Guevara vs. Sting & Darby Allin

* Britt Baker vs. Jamie Hayter

* CM Punk does not wrestle on the show, but does appear to give Page a GTS at the end of it as the previously announced All Out challenger in Chicago. Punk will act like he’s not going to be at the show and like he doesn’t give a crap about the UK or headlining a stadium, but will show up as a surprise.

I nominate xrod to make the first ever AEW Saturday Night Collision thread next month.

<blockquote class="reddit-embed-bq" style="height:500px" data-embed-height="500"> <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/comments/13oagk9/tony_khan_whenever_anyone_wants_to_talk_about/">Tony Khan whenever anyone wants to talk about AEW's North American ticket sales.</a><br> by <a href="https://www.reddit.com/user/Modano9009">u/Modano9009</a> in <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/SCJerk/">SCJerk</a> </blockquote><script async="" src="https://embed.reddit.com/widgets.js" charset="UTF-8"></script>

Video game officially confirmed for June 29th release.

SICKKKKKK

Wheeler Yuta is Claudio's partner? What, is Chris Hero not available? (Seriously, KoW vs Lucha Brothers would be sick.)

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Gotta say, it doesn't feel like the greatest sign that they finally have a release date after all this time and it's just Kenny talking over a few generic clips with no signs of new features, new wrestlers, or really anything. It borderline felt somber. Like "ok we're finally forcing this game out the door, here you go"

That said the achievement list leaked already and they have 6 weeks to hype the game properly.

Feel like they don't need to hype it.

There's gonna be three camps irregardless.

The AEW die-hards who will go out and buy it no matter what.

The indifferent, who will wait for gameplay reviews and then decide based on that. No amount of marketing will get them to buy, only reviews from trusted sources.

Then the opposite WWE die-hards (or just anti-AEW die-hards) who will refuse to buy the game ever, even if it gets good reviews.

AEW have booked Daily's Place as a backup plan for Collision's debut, which would seem to point to the rumors that AEW and Punk might've had a late disagreement holding the deal up.

The venue will be announced Wednesday so basically, United Center means AEW and Punk have sorted their shit out, Daily's Place means they haven't.

Punk has the opportunity here to royally fuck over AEW if he wants to. Just tell them he agrees to return, leading to them going forward with the United Center, and then no-show.

I don't think he'd do that though. Even if he was petty enough to fuck over AEW, I don't think he'd want to fuck over thousands of ticket-paying Chicagoans and basically turn himself permanent heel on his own hometown crowd.

Its almost like continually relying on an injury prone malcontent who has already burned them multiple times ISN'T a sound business decision :p

I get wanting Punk, I really do, but if you're at the point of having to plan for whole entire backup venues you gotta ask yourself is it worth it

If that announcement trailer is the last we see of the game before release, then it's all but guaranteed to be a mess. When a developer has a product that they're proud of, they promote it as much as possible, all the way up to the day of release, with various trailers detailing the all features.

These video game takes from everyone are so funny. Hahaha.

Potentially gets a bump as the card comes together. If not, that’s a good number, it might be where they top out though. They’d have to come with a killer card to beat that on their 2nd attempt.

Yeah, as big a Punk fan as I am, I’d be hard passing at this point if I were in Tony’s position.

Collision without Punk is toast. AEW without Punk is in bad shape. The Elite don’t care about pissing in their own well if it means they don’t get upstaged and shown up.

You bring in Punk. You let him cut the promo he needs to cut about the Salieris in the back and give Collision a fighting chance, because you need those 5 hrs of television to get the money to keep you profitable.

According to Dave, Collision has been struggling to sell tickets. This is going to hurt them if they don’t get it right.

My prediction: Tony is smart enough to realize that he needs Punk for this, and people close to Punk will talk him into doing the show despite The Elite’s attempts to fuck with him. But who knows when the next torpedo goes off in their own ship?

Bud, I would really like for it to be good, but it's hard to have faith when the developers themselves don't even have enough faith to properly market and promote their title.

One of the head developers jumped ship. THQ basically came out and apologized for the game ahead of time. Omega has no clue what he is doing and it has been a nightmare for people needing to take direction from him. An expensive, blind nightmare.

The books about this company are going to be amazing.

Fucking lol at that reveal, by the way.

How’re tickets for Double or Nothing?

I haven’t found a recent article about them, but going onto the site and having a quick glance makes them look like they’re around 75% full to me.

AEW: Double or Nothing
SUN MAY 28, 2023 – 4:00 PM
T-Mobile Arena, Las Vegas NV

Available Tickets => 2,913
Current Setup => 9,872
Tickets Distributed => 6,959

This. It’s not like I’ve given up all hope on the game, for all we know it’ll be very No Mercy reminiscent and fun as shit. But I can’t justify a day one, $70 purchase based on what has been shown so far.

They’ve got 6 weeks to promote this thing. If they do a half-assed job with that it’s a damning sign.

On the bbrightside it's coming out for pc. So even if its pretty bad modders might be able to make something of it.

Provided its not a complete dumpster fire.

Some new stories coming out:

AEW's sent legal notice to CM Phil, threatening him with legal action for something FINALLY.
Collision being on Saturdays is going to limit AEW wrestlers from making money at Conventions, and they are upset.
AEW having such trouble selling tickets for Double or Nothing, they are running 4 tickets for $40 deals, which is essentially buy 1 get 3 free, which in their arrogance they mocked in the past.

Also, not new news, but they still haven't announced a Billion Dollar Tv/Streaming deal, which the Cultists said was going to happen 5 days ago, so there is that.

AEW is a fucking shitshow.

Have faith in Kenny…

I wonder if create a wrestler will be any good. Haven’t bought a wrestling game in a good long while. Definitely interested in this.

The CM Punk legal action stuff is so interesting, because what it implies is that CM Punk is really important to the company moving forward. If it were a case of him simply being a headache and them being better off without him — why not do better off without him?

I wonder if the performance of Collision is somehow vital to AEW’s future? For example: What if TK needs a major, major rights fee increase in order to justify his expenses and keep TV partners interested in them as a growing commodity? Collision could have been a gambit to encourage WBD to pay them the money they need by generating more profitable content for WBD. If Collision is DOA, then it’s possible that AEW doesn’t command the leverage needed to secure a long-term TV deal that allows TK to continue throwing the money around to keep AEW situated.

I’m very curious to see how this plays out and what TV deal ends up being announced (if any).

Until Shad Khan decides AEW needs to make "X" amount of net dollars, AEW doesnt need a lucrative rights deal.

The only reason the amount of the rights deal would matter before that time, is to feed into the delusional narrative that AEW is overtaking WWE.

Unless it’s a case of a TV partner not wanting to go into business for 4 or 5 years with a promotion they know is going to be losing money.

THIS!

Also, seriously... if Collison absolutely needs a STAR (which I do not think it does; it just needs a solid direction, continuation and build to something greater that can lead to a PAYOFF on PPV and increased ratings) ... The Khan's can afford ANYONE on the free market. They can make it happen, they DO NOT NEED just CM Punk to do it!

The Khan's have enough money to book Goldberg versus Stacy Keibler vs Duane Gillberg VS Great Muta vs Rob Van Dam vs Bob Backlund vs Bret Hart vs Jushin Liger in a TikTok Twitch ONLY FANS bra and panties match for the Golden Barbie Doll House Championship with the winner taking on Nick Gage in a bloody Deathmatch afterwards followed by a Hulk Hogan fingerpoke of DOOM followed by Judy Bagwell on a Pole match against Bill "Captain Kirk" Shatner on a Starship Enterprise match with guest interferences by Jean-Luc Picard, The Borg, Gandolf, John Snow, Cersei Lannister, a Dragon, Rocky Balboa, Jack from the Titanic, Homer SImpson, Darth Vader, the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Kevin McAllister.

They already have 10 plus under-utilized wrestlers on the payroll capable of carrying a new show. It drives me insane they NEED someone ELSE because they literally cannot book the ones they currently HAVE!

None of those names, outside of Goldberg, has a chance of drawing.

SRS says the legal papers were documents to protect AEW from CM Punk disparaging them when he returns. Boring.

LOL, so the ONE thing CM Punk is good at, shoots, is now legally restricted??? "Happy to be Here" Punk is even worse than malcontent Punk. :rofl:

Also, does anybody else have that clause, or can Hangman just tell him Colt Cabana is better, and then when Phil melts down again and gets sued, is Hangman going to be the biggest babyface in wrestling?

Yeah, it’s not very inspiring. It combines the worst things about AEW with the worst things about CM Punk.

Fight Forever looks FUCKING HORRIBLE! Holy shit, so bad.

Orange Cassidy and Evil Uno played a Britt Baker vs. Chris Jericho match. The arena looks so bleak. They could barely work out the controls. There are countouts (has there ever been a countout in an AEW match?). The characters jump around. Their moves look clunky as fuck to execute. Britt Baker just effortlessly performs tilt-a-whirl backbreakers on Chris Jericho.

It’s ugly. It’s clunky. The physics look ridiculous.

Has Jericho ever used a running Judas Effect, by the way? I don’t pay enough attention. If not, welp, that’s one of his finishes in Fight Forever.

But at least you get to shoot off as much pyro as you want during your entrance. Very important to add that feature even if you can’t get running the ropes right.

Quite liked what I saw out of the short Fight Forever stream today. Seemed to nail the AKI arcadey vibe they were going for.

Appears that everyone has different skills and attributes, allowing them to excel in certain areas of the match (striking, high flying, etc), this was more or less confirmed by the achievements list but I'm glad it's there anyway. As even in an arcade fighter, everyone usually has unique skillsets.

Seemed to me from what was shown that the CPU controlled wrestlers were behaving like their real-life counterparts. CPU Jericho kept sliding out of the ring and taunting when he was trying to calm his opponents' momentum.
CPU MJF attacked before the bell, heeled it up constantly and has a headlock takeover signature move which I thought was cool as the animation mimicked the way he pinned Darby.

OC has his sloth style which is more or less the equivalent of changing stance in a fighting game. And with that there are presumably a whole bunch of moves specific with that stance, though the real life OC didn't know the controls so really we just saw him block a few strikes, hit a dropkick and do a pin in that stance. Very cool feature though and the "stances" could open up options for different talent.

Can't say I care about the entrances, controlling your pyro or anything. Actually prefer the entrances being short as I usually end up skipping them in 2k after the first couple of times I see it.

Still can't say I'm rushing to drop 70 bucks off of what is still relatively little footage, but it seems fun. Hopefully they put out more footage/discuss more features over the next 6 weeks.

Anyone who was expecting the game to look like the 2k series or strive for simulation gameplay vs. arcadey gameplay has paid no attention to what they've been saying about the game since day one.

One of the achievements is to play a match with at least 50 wrestlers, which, unless you're expected to supplement this total with CAWs, would mean at least 50 are in the game, possibly slightly more.

Only 30 have been announced so far either through screenshots or various write-ups.

-Adam Cole
-Adam Page
-Brodie Lee
-Bryan Danielson
-Chris Jericho
-CM Punk
-Cody Rhodes
-Darby Allin
-Jon Moxley
-Jungle Boy
-Kenny Omega
-Matt Hardy
-Matt Jackson
-MJF
-Miro
-Nick Jackson
-Orange Cassidy
-Owen Hart
-Paul Wight
-Penta El Zero Miedo
-Rey Fenix

-Abadon
-Britt Baker
-Hikaru Shida
-Jade Cargill
-Kris Statlander
-Nyla Rose
-Ruby Soho
-Thunder Rosa
-Yuka Sakazaki

The roster being dated has long been known, and it's also known that the career mode is meant to reflect the early days of AEW.

Having said that, it's tough for me to think of 20 more names that should be added without including FTR, who were reportedly scrapped from the main game and moved to DLC. Their exclusion is very dubious, especially since MJF has the fucking Pinnacle logo in his tron.

The inclusion of Abadon and Yuka Sakazaki continue to make me think they'll put practically every woman they have into the game. Brandi still being in would be unsurprising, no way she wouldn't have been in if she were still around and they've kept Cody in. Hell if they really are going to the beginning of AEW I'd mark out if Awesome Kong was in.

Supposedly The Bunny did voiceover work for story mode, while Butcher confirmed that he and Blade aren't in the game. Leaving the team out but putting Bunny in would point to them really just trying to shoehorn women in to make up the numbers and make it as close to equal as possible, even if it's at the expense of leaving out some bigger name male talent like FTR.

:lol:

Sorry, but the game looks shit and everybody knows it.

I hope they have a mini game where you get to be Tiny Khan snorting lines of coke.

Butcher and Blade not being in the game is disappointing

I don't know how you could have ever played the N64 games and not see the similarities in movement, animation, and pace. If they were going for a new generation no mercy, then that stream is reassuring. As destor said a while back though, it all hinges on how it feels.

And how well it's been QA tested. It could feel exactly like the aki games, but if it's a buggy broken mess it won't matter.

70 dollars is a hard pill to swallow however, and I have to think its priced that way to recoup some of the losses of this game's awful mismanagement.

I'm already throwing down 70 for street fighter 6 next month so this game will have to wait.

I played No Mercy and had a lot of fun. It pushed the limits of the N64. 23 fucking years ago. Part of No Mercy’s charm was that it had almost everybody and everything you could think of as a fan…at that time.

They’re clearly trying to do the same style of gameplay. Hold A for strong grapple or whatever. But you can tell by looking at it how fiddly, clunky and out of date this is. Look at the physics of how moves are executed, or how they’re not.

If you want to play No Mercy…go and play No Mercy. You’ll probably be able to create a more up to date roster.

Quite a few people here are going to owe me a Coke when it turns out I am 100% right about this.

I havent followed the game roster closely but im hoping there will be some DLC with guys like them at some point.

looks like Punks in for Collision I guess based on the location. Cant say I'm too bothered either way for Punk but its interesting none the less.

Kinda feels like the whole FTR contract situation where AEW is working the internet pretty effectively. Whatever you believe about it its driving engagement which is what almost all companies look for nowadays in social spaces. Hopefully it lands better than the FTR thing did which felt a bit played out by the end of it for me.

And theres a lot of people that still play it today along with many other games of decades past. Good gameplay is timeless. If they can successfuly tap into that, the game might have a chance.

Literally no one has promised it's going to be good. At most, people have noted a positive sign here and there, but always accompanied by cautious trepidation. Anyone can see the red flags, but people aren't focused solely on that, because as destor and I clearly stated in our last discussion about this, people want them to succeed here so there's more than just wwe 2k on the market. God forbid.

If the Dallas Stars win tomorrow night...the next game goes back to T-Mobile in Vegas Saturday night.

THAT sounds like a logistics nightmare. ABC/ESPN + venue ice out. AEW/Warner/PPV in

I am telling you: This will not have good gameplay.

Noid reminds me of this

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I mean you may be right Noid. But it’s not the bragging rights victory you’ll hope it’ll be. Mostly, it’ll be people playing the game and going “jeez this isn’t as good as it shoulda been. Damn. Oh well time to live my life.”

They won’t be like, “wow I wish I listened to Noid, the king of everything and the smartest person in existence.”