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Mr. Nerfect 02-08-2023 02:32 PM

Well, I’m not really giving Dave any credit, but that could be too much.

XL 02-08-2023 05:01 PM

“In regards to WrestleMania 39, Dave Meltzer reported that his sources stated that Lesnar’s opponent for the event has yet to be finalized but it could be Bobby Lashley based on the current storyline between the two.

Top of his field.

Fignuts 02-08-2023 05:23 PM

Fuck that.

Give us Lesnar vs Gunther

Mr. Nerfect 02-09-2023 01:51 AM

Save Lesnar vs. Gunther. Give it to people in the UK in 2024.

Sepholio 02-09-2023 02:53 AM

If they split the titles again, get one of them on Lesnar before WM next year. Have Gunther enter the rumble at 1 again next year by choice in order to show everyone his greatness. Have him run the damn table and win it from 1. Gunther v Lesnar at WM with Gunther winning his first main roster world title on the biggest stage of all.

screech 02-09-2023 09:42 AM

AEW on WTF today. Chris Jericho, Tony Khan, Colt Cabana, Bryce Remsberg, MJF, and Eddie Kingston:

<iframe style="border-radius:12px" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/episode/4Wq6DLKqDSnL7RYDuCd39q?utm_source=generator" width="35%" height="152" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy"></iframe>

Jordan 02-09-2023 03:04 PM

Paul Wight returning to action just in time for Double or Nothing to challenge MJF for the AEW Championship.

Mr. Nerfect 02-09-2023 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepholio (Post 5601229)
If they split the titles again, get one of them on Lesnar before WM next year. Have Gunther enter the rumble at 1 again next year by choice in order to show everyone his greatness. Have him run the damn table and win it from 1. Gunther v Lesnar at WM with Gunther winning his first main roster world title on the biggest stage of all.

Not a bad idea. If you have to do the split title thing, that’s a strong start for the other one.

Mr. Nerfect 02-09-2023 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan (Post 5601256)
Paul Wight returning to action just in time for Double or Nothing to challenge MJF for the AEW Championship.

You gotta do that Acclaimed & Captain Insano vs. The Gunns tag, or else are you even trying to make money?

Sting Fan 02-09-2023 09:12 PM

ESPN to show AEW in NZ and AU. Pretty stoked with that, I can drop the FITE subscription.

Sepholio 02-09-2023 10:32 PM

Forgot you were from Aotearoa.

xrodmuc316 02-09-2023 10:55 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kudos to the production team of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEW</a>! <br>2 weeks in a row <a href="https://twitter.com/mr_mansury?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@mr_mansury</a> ������ <a href="https://t.co/nSUecZ0DX3">pic.twitter.com/nSUecZ0DX3</a></p>&mdash; Kenny Olivier (@KennyOlivier69) <a href="https://twitter.com/KennyOlivier69/status/1623686616752738304?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 9, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

XL 02-10-2023 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 (Post 5600500)
FEDBAD HUNTERBAD CIAMPABAD AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


He’s at it again with the FEDBAD!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTR Bald
“I felt like we were a backdrop. I felt that everything we had been promised when we came in, we were promised that the tag division was going to be built around these two teams, and I felt it wasn’t being built around us. I felt we were lied to and at the time we were being lied to. I think my relationship with Tony got even more strained, I felt the relationship with the Bucks completely deteriorated.

“I take the blame for that. I take the blame for it because I shouldn’t have taken wrestling so seriously. If Tony decided that he didn’t think we were in that league or we should’ve been presented in a certain way, it’s his company. Same thing with Vince (McMahon). I hold no ill will towards Vince or Tony (Khan). Tony is one of my closest buds now and I love him for what he’s done for me and my family.”


#1-norm-fan 02-10-2023 10:06 PM

FTR BAD!

FED BALD!!!

Maluco 02-11-2023 01:45 PM

Those FTR lads give more shoot interviews than they have featured matches on TV. Dax never seems to stop spouting nonsense.

Sepholio 02-11-2023 02:21 PM

Not surprising how close Dax is to Punk considering they both bitch and moan nonstop. Birds of a feather and all that.

I used to not get FTR back in the day, but they grew on me and now I think they are at the top of the tag team game. But Dax is being so annoying I'd rather they just go away. Sucks.

XL 02-11-2023 03:32 PM

Dude has a podcast. Needs to about something.

Sting Fan 02-11-2023 04:10 PM

I try not to listen to podcasts of any current wrestlers or sportspeople in general tbh. It quite often feels the need to be heard and air grievances takes away from the skill you enjoy them for.

Jericho might be my only exception to the rule and I'm pretty picky about what of his stuff I listen too.

xrodmuc316 02-11-2023 09:32 PM

Pretty sure his podcast is called "FTR Bald cries about stuff"

Mr. Nerfect 02-12-2023 02:41 PM

FTR have jumped the shark.

ron the dial 02-15-2023 03:38 PM

“Ring of Honor TV is coming Thursday, March 2 on HonorClub,” says Khan. “We’ll have our first tapings on Feb. 25 and 26 at Universal Studios in Orlando, and we’re going to put tickets on sale for the inaugural taping on Thursday. Those will be the first-ever tapings of the new Ring of Honor.

https://www.si.com/wrestling/2023/02...date-honorclub

ron the dial 02-15-2023 03:40 PM

will be interesting to see if this keeps ROH matches off of AEW entirely or if they keep a certain spotlight on ROH to try and move those honor club subs. i'm assuming it's a sub thing? never been to the site before...

Lock Jaw 02-15-2023 05:28 PM

Would be "funny" if he just has a bunch of "AEW matches" on the ROH shows

Defend all the AEW belts, why not

drave 02-15-2023 05:57 PM

tv deal imminent???!!?!

Mr. Nerfect 02-16-2023 04:03 PM

There is absolutely no point to ROH still existing.

slik 02-17-2023 07:32 PM

AEW has announced more Dynamites for TX and FL...

xrodmuc316 02-17-2023 09:53 PM

This is a 40 year old man :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You're a fraud <a href="https://twitter.com/arielhelwani?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@arielhelwani</a>. You're as legitimate of a reporter as <a href="https://twitter.com/tonyschiavone24?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tonyschiavone24</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWRampage?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWRampage</a></p>&mdash; Tony Khan (@TonyKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/TonyKhan/status/1626762621990076421?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Vastardikai 02-17-2023 10:03 PM

Ol' Twitterfingers gonna Twitterfinger.

slik 02-17-2023 11:56 PM

Very accurate


<iframe id="reddit-embed" src="https://www.redditmedia.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/114kziv/aews_storytelling_is_terrible/?ref_source=embed&amp;ref=share&amp;embed=true" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups" style="border: none;" height="2555" width="640" scrolling="no"></iframe>

Lock Jaw 02-18-2023 12:00 AM

lolAEW

Vastardikai 02-18-2023 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw (Post 5602104)
lolAEW

I still prefer AEWTF

XL 02-18-2023 06:01 AM

The never-ending Jericho programmes are a turn off.

XL 02-18-2023 12:42 PM

The only “bad take” from that list is the HOOK one. It’s been well established here that holding a title but barely defending it and never appearing on a premium event is a good thing. So they are way off base with that one!

Bad News Gertner 02-18-2023 02:34 PM

I was actually just thinking the other day while flipping through Twitter that we haven't had any Tony Khan cattiness on Twitter lately.

Frank Drebin 02-18-2023 04:27 PM

All he needs is a little push....

#1-norm-fan 02-18-2023 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5573836)
For those wondering, AEW has 0 deals in Australia, because it isn’t very good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5579718)
AEW doesn’t even have TV in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5580627)
I’m in Australia. AEW does not have a TV deal over here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5515062)
they don’t even have a slot in Australia, which is a pretty big market to miss out on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5555817)
AEW doesn’t have a TV deal in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5539732)
AEW don’t even have a TV deal in Australia because NO ONE GIVES A FUCK.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ESPN to Broadcast All Elite Wrestling (AEW) Exclusively in Australia, New Zealand and Pacific Islands <a href="https://t.co/wFDyIOviX4">pic.twitter.com/wFDyIOviX4</a></p>&mdash; All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1623865875941015552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

RIP Noid

oof.

Mr. Nerfect 02-18-2023 06:01 PM

AEW is a joke. Tony Khan is a mess.

#1-norm-fan 02-18-2023 06:54 PM

:lol:

xrodmuc316 02-18-2023 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slik (Post 5602103)
Very accurate


<iframe id="reddit-embed" src="https://www.redditmedia.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/114kziv/aews_storytelling_is_terrible/?ref_source=embed&amp;ref=share&amp;embed=true" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups" style="border: none;" height="2555" width="640" scrolling="no"></iframe>

There is so much wrong with AEW that only like half of that dude's post is visible lol

xrodmuc316 02-18-2023 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Drebin (Post 5602135)
All he needs is a little push....

That push was apparently watching Smackdown, because FEDBAD, and seeing the Interviewer who said Tony was a bad interview because he wouldn't answer anything, being on Smackdown in his hometown. That is literally it, Ariel is a fraud because he appeared on WWE Smackdown. It could have been worse though, I mean what if WWE starts having wrestlers name their moves after him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Cole
OHHHHHH MY it is the ARIELPLEX!!!!


Sepholio 02-18-2023 07:04 PM

HELWANIBOMB FROM THE TOP TURNBUCKLE MY GOD IVE NEVER SEEN SUCH DESTRUCTION

Sepholio 02-18-2023 07:33 PM

LOL Ariel getting a big segment on EC preshow rn. Love it.

xrodmuc316 02-18-2023 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepholio (Post 5602161)
LOL Ariel getting a big segment on EC preshow rn. Love it.

Tiny is losing his mind somewhere right now lol

drave 02-19-2023 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan (Post 5602138)
ESPN to Broadcast All Elite Wrestling (AEW) Exclusively in Australia, New Zealand and Pacific Islands pic.twitter.com/wFDyIOviX4
— All Elite Wrestling (@AEW) February 10, 2023
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

RIP Noid

oof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5602149)
AEW is a joke. Tony Khan is a mess.




¿sǝlqɯɐɥs

screech 02-19-2023 10:23 AM

I love how Noid was bragging about AEW not being on TV in Australia like anyone outside of Australia gave a shit lol

#1-norm-fan 02-19-2023 11:36 AM

If AEW can’t work out a way to bring back Punk and make money off of a rare instance of legit heat then wrestling is officially dead. Do the right thing, Tony…

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pepsi Phil better not have spent the $94 he owes Danhausen on New Japan tickets</p>&mdash; Danhausen (@DanhausenAD) <a href="https://twitter.com/DanhausenAD/status/1627171965873057792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We need Punk vs Danhausen!

XL 02-19-2023 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screech (Post 5602335)
I love how Noid was bragging about AEW not being on TV in Australia like anyone outside of Australia gave a shit lol

Be fair to the guy, he only mentioned it once or twice…

Jordan 02-19-2023 11:40 AM

Nobody brings together the starts of ROH from 20 years ago like Tony!

Corporate CockSnogger 02-19-2023 01:30 PM

AEW has definitely got worse over time. I’ve gone from watching the show in full, to having it on in the background while doing other things, to skipping half the matches as they introduced and focused on too many uninteresting people, to the point now where I skip every single match, just watching the promos and the endings of the matches out of hope a good story starts up and it becomes quite good again

Corporate CockSnogger 02-19-2023 01:34 PM

The next ppv could again be a really good card of 7-8 matches at most with lots of grudge matches and matches that make sense, even if the builds haven’t been great.

MJF v Danielson
Mox v Hangman
Tag title match
Christian v Jungle Boy
Wardlow v Samoa Joe
Whatever they do with the womens match

Keep it tight and with storylines that matter and more importantly, keep it within a reasonable run time.

But instead they’ll squeeze out every Orange Cassidy, Hook, Jay Lethal level wrestler on their roster into the ppv and have a run time of 6 hours.

Corporate CockSnogger 02-19-2023 01:36 PM

Having trios titles and tag team titles is so stupid. Automatically reduces the depth of both divisions, since any trios teams they have are just an established team + a friend.

Scrap the trios belts, put them in the bin.

Corporate CockSnogger 02-19-2023 01:46 PM

Scrap Jade Cargills belt too. Have Ruby Soho join the WWE girls side, so Britt and Hayter have a surprise AEW original partner. Jade comes out and breaks Sarayas neck so we never have to see or hear her again.

Then you move towards a Jade/Hayter powerhouse feud with them respecting each other. Britt can either cost Hayter the belt and Jade carries on the streak, or Britt costs Jade the belt and her streak because she wants to beat Hayter for the belt. Or you have a three way feud, plenty of options.

Just bring Jade into the fold and get rid of her pointless belt.

Mr. Nerfect 02-19-2023 03:36 PM

LolAEW

screech 02-19-2023 05:08 PM

The trios belts and TBS title seem to exist independently of everything else on the show. P useless tbh

Mr. Nerfect 02-19-2023 05:10 PM

Is the All-Atlantic belt still around?

screech 02-19-2023 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporate CockSnogger (Post 5602345)

Keep it tight and with storylines that matter and more importantly, keep it within a reasonable run time.

But instead they’ll squeeze out every Orange Cassidy, Hook, Jay Lethal level wrestler on their roster into the ppv and have a run time of 6 hours.

I feel like this is a problem in modern rasslin. The company thinks cramming as many people onto the card as possible means the show will be great.

Mr. Nerfect 02-20-2023 10:55 AM

WWE have moved away from that over the past 18 months or so. Now their shows often have like 6 matches.

Tom Guycott 02-20-2023 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screech (Post 5602365)
I feel like this is a problem in modern rasslin. The company thinks cramming as many people onto the card as possible means the show will be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect (Post 5602387)
WWE have moved away from that over the past 18 months or so. Now their shows often have like 6 matches.

Two extremes of a similar problem.

Going back in time quite a bit, part of the reason for Smackdown! even coming into existence... shit, part of the reason why RAW went from one hour to two permanantly was to get more people on TV and supposedly get more of them over. But each time, what eventually happened was they would just feature the "over" people for longer periods of time. One hour RAW used to have 3-4 matches. Then, they'd do the occasional "extra hour" and bump up to about 6 or 7. After the two hours became permanant, they somehow trickled back down to about 4 matches, and got in more skits and commercials. Current 3 hour RAW is now about the same content wise as the original 1 hour RAW. The only thing that salvages Smackdown (which at one point suffered the same fate, just on a different day) is that they're still doing the brand split, so there are at least different people there, but it's still pretty much the same people week to week with nearly ceaseless, overproduced talking.

AEW, on the other hand, will overexpose 1 or two "hot, new" talent, but still rotate a cast of about 1/3 of their very bloated roster on Dynamite, and a different 1/3 on Rampage with no rhyme or reason and end up making EVERYONE white noise- expendable and interchangable and just there. They supposedly try to make you care about someone, then that someone disappears for months at a time. Poof, just suddenly not on TV anymore. While there's (comparably) less talking than WWE, they also skimp on the storytelling period. X and Y have a match. Excalibur mentions that they had a match 7 years ago in Japan. Y beats X, and you never hear about either of them having any history ever again. Y might get two more wins on TV like he's building to some sort of title match feud, then fucks off for six months. Nobody's even asking where Y is after a couple weeks, because nobody remembers Y works for AEW.

So you end up with either something like WWE with the whole Bloodline thing (not knocking it because it's entertaining and intriguing, but the point of this is to illustrate exactly how much time that particular drama eats up multiple segments of TV time every week when it doesn't need to and still get the same positive response), or AEW with clusterfucks upon clusterfucks of random people, random stables, matches, and titles that makes the East Palestine Train Derailment* look like a two car fender bender.

There's got to be a happy medium where Vince's folks showcase a little more than the same 10 people between 2-3 hours of commercial breaks that might have some matches in between because "ugh, I guess we have to this is obstensibly a wrestling program", and where Tony pops a little more Ritalin and maybe pares down the scope instead of splooging interchangeable folks having 15 minutes bouts everywhere all the time to where nobody has the ability to care about any of them.

*I'm kinda tired of people saying "Ohio Train Fire". Way too impersonal, like the place is too nondescript to even mention. Just say the name of the town like pretty much any other disaster... but maybe I feel that way because it's about 20 miles from me.

Tom Guycott 02-21-2023 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screech (Post 5602363)
The trios belts and TBS title seem to exist independently of everything else on the show. P useless tbh

Prob'ly for two different reasons.

I wonder if Jade is just making the best of being there and counting the days down until she's a free agent? She seems like there wasn't really any actual plans for her in any meaningful way after Mr. & Mrs. Rhodes departed from the company, and any "serious" competition she was being groomed to go up against pretty much either got hurt (Statlander) or departed (Thunder Rosa), and there wasn't anything else on the slate for her without those matchups happening when they should have.

As for the Trios, I'm kinda torn. While I agree it's yet another stupid auxillary title, it serves a purpose of keeping The Young Bucks away from everything else, and gives them their own little belts to be marks for. Even if they're kings of a non-existant division or chasing for the crown of the same non-existant division, they can "kill the business" in their own little corner all they want. They've already proven that's all they wanted to be in charge of the tag division for - to have potential "dream matches" against FTR (hot off buzz... to go over) and a reunited Hardy Boyz (hot off buzz...to go over, if they had the chance to), and sign a bunch of other nobody tag teams who can have a Young Bucks type of match (like that one Chineese team signed at the beginning of AEW that was "the tag team of the future"... remember them?!?)... and go over them. If they were focused on the actual tag division, we'd get Austin and Colton counting lights for them, the Acclaimed wouldn't have had the chance to shine as much because Castor's raps would be getting inturrupted and one-upped by the Jackson boys, and any other tag teams, real or imagined, would just be stepping stones for them to have an annual winning record on their entrance lower third instead of MAKING any of those teams in any meaningful way to advance the industry, thus PROVING they're the greatest tag team ever :roll: like they "humbly" present themselves as despite having the exact same match since they were "Generation Me" in TNA (prob'ly longer, but that was the first time I actually saw them... and even back then that shit got repetitive and stale pretty quick).

Lock Jaw 02-21-2023 01:34 AM

They should unify all the tiles and put it all on Christian Cage.

Problem solved.

screech 02-21-2023 10:52 AM

Lock Jaw gets it

Evil Vito 02-21-2023 01:42 PM

Pretty much agreed on that Reddit post that Slik put up there.

I still watch Dynamite every week because I genuinely enjoy the wrestling. But my engagement with the stories is at an all-time low. And Tony never seems willing to hire anyone to help keep him focused so it just doesn't feel it'll change anytime soon.

Evil Vito 02-21-2023 01:48 PM

One of the beauties with early AEW is that almost nobody wrestled on consecutive weeks. They had a roster that was big enough to allow them to rotate the ring-work, guys would wrestle once every 2-3 weeks but pretty much everyone important would be featured in vignettes, promos, angles etc. They had a good rotation going.

That continued right on through the pandemic, especially with their taping schedule being what it was (live episode Wednesday, taped episode Thursday, then everyone goes home for 2 weeks).

Now it's just the polar opposite. Same people wrestling every week and while I'm not about to complain about seeing a guy like Danielson wrestle every week, it's a problem when you have sizable chunks of the roster going unused.

I understood AEW got burned over the summer with fuckloads of guys going out hurt at the same time, but they are mostly healthy now. Mox was supposed to take a vacation on September and it never happened. Khan's all but said he "can't afford" to lose Danielson for a month to do the G1. Why not? Are advertisers demanding all the big names work every week? It's a mess.

Evil Vito 02-21-2023 02:13 PM

Thinking more about the Danielson/MJF angle...it's repetitive yes but I think part of the reason it feels this way goes well beyond the basic framework of "Danielson runs an MJF gauntlet". There's actually some differences in this angle than the previous gauntlets and they're easy to miss because AEW seem to be poor at explaining things.

On paper the MJF/Danielson build is actually really smart. The story is that the responsibilities of being a champion are killing MJF, heavily because he can't actually get away with his usual bullshit. He didn't get to choose Danielson's opponents, he didn't get to pick stipulations, and even trying to force Danielson into a Labors of Jericho series of matches has ended up screwing him over in the long run because now he has to wrestle a match type that favors the challenger.

He wanted the brass ring and now he's gotten it and it means that he has to go places he doesn't want to go, he has to wrestle people he'd rather not wrestle, and so on and so forth. The only alternative is to give up the belt, a thing he'd never do. Danielson, conversely, loves and wants nothing more but to wrestle matches, so the moment he's negotiated it so the reward is worth the risk his only issue is getting to the finish line. In its way it's kind of a funny inversion of MJF's feuds.

But none of that is really made clear. Nothing is made as clear as it needs to be, which means that every week on here people have come in not knowing who canonically is booking Danielson's opponents (it's Tony Khan, not MJF), how long he needs to win matches for (it was for five weeks, which feels arbitrary because the top five rankings functionally do not exist anymore), or even that MJF is coming actually unglued (because MJF has played nearly every single version of his character except for the "I'm actually deep because I was bullied when I was younger" version). And I can't blame anyone for that because there have been weeks where I've been unsure of that myself, and have only noticed it because I caught words Excalibur was saying at his full auctioneer pace when running down cards.

Some of AEW's problems are heavily about circumstances that are out of their control, or a general reluctance to give indicators as to why wrestlers have been cycled out (Wardlow getting injured, for example), but some of it is really just a seeming refusal to not simplify things and hammer home the same beats over and over so even a fourth-grader could understand it, which is what you need to do for a large TV audience.

Lock Jaw 02-21-2023 03:53 PM

Speaking solely about my experience watching for a couple months after Punk went over... seems like Tony relies heavily on the internet fans to "fill in the gaps" on his stories for him. Since that is his primary demo he sees no need to change as long as people keep filling in the gaps for him.

Once enough of the IWC turns against him, then we'll see Meltzer and the other "journalists" turn against AEW to shift with their market as well, and then things will unravel quickly....

Tom Guycott 02-21-2023 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Vito (Post 5602474)
One of the beauties with early AEW is that almost nobody wrestled on consecutive weeks. They had a roster that was big enough to allow them to rotate the ring-work, guys would wrestle once every 2-3 weeks but pretty much everyone important would be featured in vignettes, promos, angles etc. They had a good rotation going.

That continued right on through the pandemic, especially with their taping schedule being what it was (live episode Wednesday, taped episode Thursday, then everyone goes home for 2 weeks).

Now it's just the polar opposite. Same people wrestling every week and while I'm not about to complain about seeing a guy like Danielson wrestle every week, it's a problem when you have sizable chunks of the roster going unused.

I understood AEW got burned over the summer with fuckloads of guys going out hurt at the same time, but they are mostly healthy now. Mox was supposed to take a vacation on September and it never happened. Khan's all but said he "can't afford" to lose Danielson for a month to do the G1. Why not? Are advertisers demanding all the big names work every week? It's a mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw (Post 5602479)
Speaking solely about my experience watching for a couple months after Punk went over... seems like Tony relies heavily on the internet fans to "fill in the gaps" on his stories for him. Since that is his primary demo he sees no need to change as long as people keep filling in the gaps for him.

Once enough of the IWC turns against him, then we'll see Meltzer and the other "journalists" turn against AEW to shift with their market as well, and then things will unravel quickly....

That's always been a problem for the entire time: relying on people like us to carry the product. Folks like us who even know who the fuck Meltzer is, let alone care one way or the other about what he says. Folks like us who have at least a cursory care about what's going on in NJPW, NWA, MLW, AAA, or the surprisingly still upright corpse of Impact.

Relying on the internet wrestliing community to watch all of their shows, including the web-only stuff that's obviously nowhere near appointment watching, and understanding that an angle is happening between X and Y that involves a thing that happened between them at an indy show in Britain over some New Japan title where most of the "normal" fans will have prob'ly have only seen Dynamite and wonder who the hell those two guys even are.

Relying on the IWC to *know* who someone like Shibata is and caring enough to want to see him against Orange Cassidy. Relying on the IWC to "fall for" just plugging New Guy Z in with Veteran W and expecting them to automatically get an instantanious rub of stardom instead of actually building anyone.

And again, it comes down to being an opposite extreme from WWE. When you had the perfect storm in something like The Ryder Revolution, it was unique in being a time and place event where he - individually - was about as over, if not moreso, than any of the top guys on the card *because* he had a burgeoning social media groundswell that the company just didn't understand or quantify, and was in a position to capitialize on it in a way that Matt Hardy before him couldn't (realistically speaking, Matt had the vision, but was WAAAYYY too early on that forefront, trying to build a fanbase when the world was still just getting used to dial-up and chatrooms and not when everyone had a microcomputer in their pocket and could instantaniously interact). Heck, WWE still had commentators bash "the internet" and and style it to be a total of 30 basement-dwelling neckbeards globally, and only maybe half of those might possibly be into wrestling just to trash it instead of a thing that, again at that point, EVERYONE had access too at pretty much any time if they had a nice enough cellular phone or computer/laptop... while AEW likes to pretend now that that is all that exists and the only way everyone consumes everything in every interest all the time and all of those interests intersect for everyone.

There should not be a need to hold Bryan Danielson from the G1 or stop Mox from vactioning or doing the originally planned NJPW timeshare because nobody around can be assed to actually "build" folks (plural) that anyone would or should care about to be able to carry the company in the absense of one or two talent, but there is a very bad habit to only trade on most folks who already came in with some sort of name behind them from elsewhere. About the only people who seemingly bucked that trend were Darby Allin, Hook, and Dr. Britt. Even then, most of those people end up spinning wheels instead of being any sort of help or hinderance.

Mr. Nerfect 02-22-2023 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw (Post 5602479)
Speaking solely about my experience watching for a couple months after Punk went over... seems like Tony relies heavily on the internet fans to "fill in the gaps" on his stories for him. Since that is his primary demo he sees no need to change as long as people keep filling in the gaps for him.

Once enough of the IWC turns against him, then we'll see Meltzer and the other "journalists" turn against AEW to shift with their market as well, and then things will unravel quickly....

Yep. The problem with the hardcore niche audience is that they’re the ones that are going to look elsewhere for their wrestling. They’re already watching WWE and know that it is better. If something else tickles their fancy more, they’ll abandon AEW in a second.

Evil Vito 02-22-2023 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott (Post 5602493)
About the only people who seemingly bucked that trend were Darby Allin, Hook, and Dr. Britt. Even then, most of those people end up spinning wheels instead of being any sort of help or hinderance.

Yeah pretty much all of these people are "spinning wheels" by this point in various stages. Especially Hook.

Hook is admittedly still green but I can't see how he's never going to stop being green if they don't ween him off of one-sided, heavily choreographed matches. Booking-wise it seems AEW are very scared that fans will stop caring about him the second he loses a match. And so he's still on squash duty.

I think they're in a similar boat with Jade. Her win streak is really tarnished when you consider how it's booked. Her only fully easy wins are against non-contract Dark talent. Her first loss is probably still be saved for Kris Stat but again, does it even matter if Jade's consistently shown she needs interference to beat anyone remotely important?

They took a good guiding principle with the "wins and losses matter" stuff and then ended up at a very weird destination with it where they've booked themselves into a corner with undefeated streaks.

Mr. Nerfect 02-22-2023 03:30 PM

AEW’s stories rarely make sense. That gets pointed out a bit more now, but nowhere near as much as it should. And when you’re appealing to an audience that likes to be rewarded for paying attention, it is eventually going to become alienating when the goodwill erodes.

Damian Rey 2.0 02-22-2023 03:41 PM

Jaime Hayter was red hot off her title win. The easiest and most sediment billing was turning Britt on her, giving her the full fledged babyface run between two homegrown stars and having Hayter go over and be the center of the division.

Instead she’s still a lackey, just with a belt. Saraya going heel was a good idea and they pivoted well, but that should be getting built up to feed to Hayter at the next ppv and it’s not. Complete waste IMO

screech 02-22-2023 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Vito (Post 5602529)

They took a good guiding principle with the "wins and losses matter" stuff and then ended up at a very weird destination with it where they've booked themselves into a corner with undefeated streaks.

Related: saw on reddit a few days ago that the AEW rankings have not been updated on their website since August 31. That is still the case as of right now:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpmVJISW...png&name=small

Evil Vito 02-22-2023 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 (Post 5602541)
Jaime Hayter was red hot off her title win. The easiest and most sediment billing was turning Britt on her, giving her the full fledged babyface run between two homegrown stars and having Hayter go over and be the center of the division.

Instead she’s still a lackey, just with a belt. Saraya going heel was a good idea and they pivoted well, but that should be getting built up to feed to Hayter at the next ppv and it’s not. Complete waste IMO

I'd like to believe that they had Britt turning on Jamie leading to a Revolution title match penciled in, but then Saraya proved to be so dislikable that they needed to get her heel as soon as possible and figured they could keep Jamie and Britt as a unified front a bit longer. But now they're just in this awful Originals vs. implied Ex-WWE feud. What's that gonna lead to, a tag match at the PPV? Jamie should be getting the solo focus.

Also you know Britt vs. Jamie is something they'd want to do at PPV, so now it'll be another 3 months and they'll have to stretch the split out even longer now then if they'd just done the angle people were ready for when she won the belt. Annoying.

Evil Vito 02-22-2023 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screech (Post 5602544)
Related: saw on reddit a few days ago that the AEW rankings have not been updated on their website since August 31. That is still the case as of right now:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpmVJISW...png&name=small

Yeah they finally did away with the rankings, which I understand because it felt like they were barely adhering to them anyway. Like it became a running joke that FTR were the top ranked team for months and months yet they'd never get a title shot, teams lower ranked than them kept getting shots and AEW made no real attempt to explain this away.

I think near the beginning Cody said that "quality of opponent" was an implied metric for deciding rankings, sorta like college football. Which again is a cool idea in theory but in practice you can see how it would hamstring them.

Like during COVID they started running 16 Dark matches a week. And yeah, it was cool that Khan was helping giving a shitload of indy workers a check every week at a time when indies weren't running. But then you had guys who lose whenever they're on Dynamite show up with a chevron showing they had a career record of like 75-19. Looked clunky.

Mr. Nerfect 02-23-2023 02:07 AM

Are we ready to admit the rankings were a bad idea from the start?

Sting Fan 02-23-2023 02:54 AM

Haven’t watched Dynamite yet, about too.

I heard AEW are adding another hour, sounds like some kind of talk show? Big ol meh from me, wrestling talk shows don’t interest me but seems like a show of support from the network which is interesting and really goes against a lot of the internet narrative.

Mr. Nerfect 02-23-2023 01:08 PM

Sounds like they’re trying to drum up interest more than anything. I don’t expect this to do well.

Mr. Nerfect 02-25-2023 04:40 PM

Could be a ploy to stretch AEW even further to dry it up so they can cancel too.

Tom Guycott 02-26-2023 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Vito (Post 5602529)
Yeah pretty much all of these people are "spinning wheels" by this point in various stages. Especially Hook.

Hook is admittedly still green but I can't see how he's never going to stop being green if they don't ween him off of one-sided, heavily choreographed matches. Booking-wise it seems AEW are very scared that fans will stop caring about him the second he loses a match. And so he's still on squash duty.

I think they're in a similar boat with Jade. Her win streak is really tarnished when you consider how it's booked. Her only fully easy wins are against non-contract Dark talent. Her first loss is probably still be saved for Kris Stat but again, does it even matter if Jade's consistently shown she needs interference to beat anyone remotely important?

They took a good guiding principle with the "wins and losses matter" stuff and then ended up at a very weird destination with it where they've booked themselves into a corner with undefeated streaks.

That's a consequence of not actually making with any sort of actual card hierarchy or building any other talent to see him square off against. Though I'm primarily talking about Hook, it applies to Jade as well. They're either pounding an endless parade of jobbers and clowns or they would immediately jump to who would be considered main event... with absolutely no road to climb up there. There is no true middle card, ironically making them stuck in the middle card. This would be like if in WCW, you had someone getting weekly wins on WorldWide, but then the "serious" talent on Nitro and such only consisted of guys like Sting or Goldberg or Scott Steiner. There's no Fit Finlays or Dean Malenkos or Filthy Animals to go up against to help climb the card... it's either Roadblock or Macho Man. You can't just jump from "Lightning Foot" Jerry Flynn to DDP and expect to be taken seriously.

Most of AEW's roster consists of nothing but pre-"Purple Rain" Prince Ieukeas and Blitzkreigs.

Sepholio 02-26-2023 07:57 AM

I dunno if you're trying to insult Blitzkrieg there but if you are then sir are a fuddy duddy.

#1-norm-fan 02-26-2023 10:00 AM

Tony seems like he’s dead set on going the old school route of building up credible monsters and not butchering it seemingly on purpose like WWE has done over recent years. But he’s also scatterbrained and too influenced by current wrestling, consciously or not, to fully commit to it. So he just sticks with the squashes for too long.

Then there’s Wardlow who probably should still be doing squashes. It may not be ideal at this point but it’s preferable to what they’ve done with him.

screech 02-26-2023 12:47 PM

Wardlow squashing jobbers would be much better than "I'm mad at Samoa Joe because he cut my hair and my dad died" for sure.

Mr. Nerfect 02-26-2023 01:01 PM

Has Tony Khan actually ever elevated someone with his booking?

Lock Jaw 02-26-2023 01:08 PM

https://i.imgur.com/iHJ18DK.jpg

Mr. Nerfect 02-26-2023 03:35 PM

Touché. Is that the match where they couldn’t open the door, so everyone just slipped through the bars?

Sepholio 02-26-2023 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan (Post 5602931)
Tony seems like he’s dead set on going the old school route of building up credible monsters and not butchering it seemingly on purpose like WWE has done over recent years. But he’s also scatterbrained and too influenced by current wrestling, consciously or not, to fully commit to it. So he just sticks with the squashes for too long.

Then there’s Wardlow who probably should still be doing squashes. It may not be ideal at this point but it’s preferable to what they’ve done with him.

I get what you're saying here but I recall the old school method being used to create monsters out of people who were believable as monsters. I don't remember it being used to elevate kids who weigh 130lbs dripping wet into world destroyers.

Mr. Nerfect 02-26-2023 04:04 PM

Wardlow’s booking should disqualify Tony from Booker of the Year contention immediately.

Mr. Nerfect 02-26-2023 04:05 PM

I said it was probably too early to split him and MJF when it happened. Why would you break these two up if the plan wasn’t to GO with Wardlow?

#1-norm-fan 02-26-2023 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepholio (Post 5602961)
I get what you're saying here but I recall the old school method being used to create monsters out of people who were believable as monsters. I don't remember it being used to elevate kids who weigh 130lbs dripping wet into world destroyers.

Well yeah, in Hook’s case it’s because he’s Taz’ kid and Tony was an ECW mark.

#1-norm-fan 02-26-2023 06:19 PM

No botching of the booking of a monster will ever match Ryback though. I don’t think it can ever be topped if someone tries.

Sepholio 02-26-2023 06:21 PM

I dunno, they didn't really botch Rybacks build as much as drop the ball once he got there. But looking back at his behavior over the years I feel like maybe he might have brought some of it on himself. He seems quite a bit of a tool.

I still remember him slamming 2 (and I think sometimes even 3) dudes at one time. Was a hell of a thing to see.

Sepholio 02-26-2023 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan (Post 5602970)
Well yeah, in Hook’s case it’s because he’s Taz’ kid and Tony was an ECW mark.

Also I was talking with some folks on the book about Hook yesterday. It was in the context of some AEW marks bitching about Cody being pushed in WWE is just because of nepotism due to being Dustys boy and that TK doesn't play nepotism like that. So someone brings up Hook and they literally tried to explain how nepotism has nothing to do with him and it was just laughable to me. He won his dads imaginary title from one of his dads "clients" while his dad was on the mic talking about how awesome he is. If that's not nepotism then nothing is.

Nepotism.











Nepotism.

Sepholio 02-26-2023 06:27 PM

Feel like we're about due for one of those "hook disappears for 3 months and comes back and we act like his last story never happened again and have him squash some jobbers before we put him in another story we'll drop 3 weeks later"

Sepholio 02-26-2023 06:35 PM

Danhausen should attack Hook and beat him for the FTW title because Hook forgot all about him. Very neglected, very evil.

#1-norm-fan 02-26-2023 07:29 PM

He’d have the rename it the (NC)TW Title.

Sepholio 02-26-2023 07:47 PM

I'd go with Frick The World or something but yours works too.

slik 02-26-2023 08:45 PM

Dave Meltzer said he heard talk AEW might be adding another championship, the gist of it being an 'Interpromotional Championship' that can be defended on either AEW or ROH television.

screech 02-26-2023 09:10 PM

More belts!

Sepholio 02-26-2023 09:27 PM

Man I was just thinking that AEW needed more titles. This still isn't enough but it's a step in the right direction!

Tom Guycott 02-26-2023 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepholio (Post 5602929)
I dunno if you're trying to insult Blitzkrieg there but if you are then sir are a fuddy duddy.

Whatever your feelings about any of the guys I mentioned that were on the lower rungs of WCW, they were doing jobs to the actual stars at 10:05 am on Saturday morning. Blitzkreig included.

Then you get up to guys like Konnan or Glacier or Mortis (specifically while he was Mortis: still in the mask and being accompanied with James Van Den Berg), who would be the guy who beats all those guys but consistently counts lights for guys who "the championship comittee" are looking to push in any sort of meaningful way. They were the WorldWide gatekeepers.

On a side note, it's one of the reasons why I always "hated" Konnan. It was like his whole gimmick was talking shit and getting hit. Before I knew about how he was previously a big deal in Mexico or his previous stint as Max Moon or any of that shit, I was introduced to him being "stereotypical movie gangbanger" who had just enough intangible charisma to trash talk almost anyone, but then he does the job often in record time. I knew guys like that for real, there was no desire to get behind that on TV.

Damian Rey 2.0 02-26-2023 11:31 PM

The only belts they need are the men’s and women’s world titles, tag and the TNT and TBS belts. I don’t mind midcard titles because it gives lesser guys/guys you want to build up something to have a program for.

The rest is just excess that doesn’t mean anything.

Also, push Willow Nightingale. The crowds love her, she’s got great music, she’s good in the ring and has charisma. Give her Jade’s first loss. Doesn’t have to be an emphatic win. It can be a hard fought match that Jade dominates, but Willow preservers and wins with a roll up to counter Jaded. Jade still looks strong and can move up to a sink or swim program against Hayter while Willow goes thru all the b level heels in the women’s division.

I have a dummy feeling that Saraya is getting the belt at Revolution. While I think that would be pulling the rug out from under Hayter, I also feel like Tony missed the fucking boat on her abs a red hot title feud with her and Britt. Granted they can still get there. But if Saraya does win, at least the belt will get consistent tv time again. I’d still hate it.


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